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I will be mostly out of home from approx. this Saturday to end of March. I will have a notebook and an occasional access to Internet. But I will answer your messages sparsely (once per week or so).
So try to conduct most of diplomacy next three days please.
Originally posted by germanos
Operation ‘locust’ launched.
Offensive operations started against Babylon. Principle aim of the assault on the treacherous Babylonians is to secure the Assyrian investments made in Babylonia (during the early years of SlowThinkers reign) that have been nationalized by the Babylonian King one piece at the time.
The initial push has brought our glorious forces victory and significant ground was gained. The Assyrian armies will not hold until vital Assyrian interests are secured.
It seems scarcely credible that the honorable High King of Assyria would embark upon a war against his southern brother without a most excellent reason. Therefore, in the spirit of harmonious international relations, Pharoah implores him to lay his case out in full before the eyes of all the world.
Additionally - no matter how justified the attack - there must be limits to this "Operation Locust". Surely the King of Assyria does not envision a serious alteration of the "Balance of Power" - specifically the acquisition of cities and territory?
Pharoah passes no judgement here - but feels certain his Brother in Nineveh can understand the Egyptian desire for more information.
May the Rays of Ra enlighten thy mind,
Ramesses II
To La Fayette, as fine a gentleman as ever trod the Halls of Apolyton
From what I understand of that Civ game of yours, it's all about launching one's own spaceship before the others do. So this is no big news after all: my father just beat you all to the stars once more. - Philippe Baise
Pharoah states the thoughts of the Persians well. Both Babylon and Assyria have acted honorably towards our nation, and we are reluctant to take up arms against either. But it is hard to see the justification for this attack and hard to see where it will end.
We endorse Pharoah's requests, and also ask King Didanu to expand on -
"The Assyrian armies will not hold until vital Assyrian interests are secured."
Do Assyrian interests include attacks on Babylonian cities, or crossing Babylonian borders, for example?
My dear ally wrote that: "war is good for business",
but any war is not good for business with the Hittite-Minoan alliance, especially since we all know that the Assyrian leader is bloodthirsty.
Therefore:
- one more Assyrian attack against Babylon = no more Assyrian caravan welcome to any Minoan city;
- if no more Assyrian attack, then:
a) one Assyrian caravan welcome once the Hittite caravan safely delivered to Assyria,
b) no more Assyrian caravan welcome until ALL Assyrian units withdrawn from Anatolia
It seems scarcely credible that the honorable High King of Assyria would embark upon a war against his southern brother without a most excellent reason. Therefore, in the spirit of harmonious international relations, Pharoah implores him to lay his case out in full before the eyes of all the world.
Additionally - no matter how justified the attack - there must be limits to this "Operation Locust". Surely the King of Assyria does not envision a serious alteration of the "Balance of Power" - specifically the acquisition of cities and territory?
Pharoah passes no judgement here - but feels certain his Brother in Nineveh can understand the Egyptian desire for more information.
May the Rays of Ra enlighten thy mind,
Ramesses II
There is really not much more to say then I have allready done:
Assyria has invested in Babylonia in the early years of SlowThinkers reign, when the country was devastated by the rule of CivFan and his courtisane Alinestra Incontinentia. Units, maps, Caravans and technologies were send south. Some came as gifts, some items were asked for by the Babylonian King, and rich rewards were promised.
As soon as the Babylonian Kingdom was lifted from it's isolation, the erosion of the King's promises set in. Requests became demands, and the Babylonian King didn't shun extortion. Thus ended the golden age of Mesopotamian Friendship. That was ages ago.
Assyria and Babylon peacefully coexisted for centuries to follow, until Assyrian scouts were massacred in Babylonia, and extensive talks on a cease-fire failed. A final Assyrian offer was rejected (and a very fair one at that: Assyria would not gain anything and Babylonia would not loose anything) and then the threats started again: Babylonia would end it's payments on the investments of the old days.
Assyria then told Babylon we would descent on him like locusts on green fields of barley if he would fail to pay his dues.
Nevertheless, King SlowThinker decided to suspend his payments. Now we have come to collect them for ourselves.
I will not disclose to Pharaoh or anybody else where we will seek our compensation for the nationalized Assyrian investments, as that is a highly clasified militairy secret, but Pharaoh fears for a shift in the balance of power between Babylonia and Assyria will likely be true:
the Assyrian investments have been very large.
Summary for King Minos:
This will not have been the last attack on Babylon. We will sail clear of your ports and head further west.
As usual, phrasing of my dear old (I think very old now?) friend Didanu is very unclear and indefinite. I had always problems to get clear statements from him and his ancestors...
So let us be more concrete now:
Assyria has invested in Babylonia in the early years of SlowThinkers reign, when the country was devastated by the rule of CivFan and his courtisane Alinestra Incontinentia. Units, maps, Caravans and technologies were send south. Some came as gifts, some items were asked for by the Babylonian King, and rich rewards were promised.
Gifts: several decades ago I got a list of Assyrian gifts to Babylon, I responded which I consider as real gifts and which not and sent back a similar list. But I suppose this is not a problem since Assyrians are not Indians.
When Babylon had Civil Service and Assyria Land Trade we agreed DiploSystem (DS) will be built in Babylon with an investment of 2 Assyrian caravans and 4 Babylonian caravans. Since Babylon invested more caravans, the original deal was Assyria would get all info from DS each 3rd turn, but Babylon was very happy and offered the info each turn.
Since Assyria seemed to be little bit unclear with its statements, several turns later Babylon insisted that a clear agreement is written. Here it is:
Territory - Babylon won't move units in Assyrian sparse settlement (not only city perimeter) without Assyrian permission (for example caravans). Assyria won't move units in Babylonian settlement and in Babylonian east territories (east from the Eufrat/Tigris area, south from the 50th parallel) without Babylonian permission.
Diplomacy system - info goes from DS for Assyria. Will be stopped only if assyria starts war against babylon.
Land Trade - Assyria has copyright to this tech (Babylon can't pass it further without an agreement)
Civic Planning and The Beak are mutual
Caravan passage - using roads: aprox. 20% of estimated total gold, payed upon entry. Short off-road crossing of your territory is free of charge.
Our foreign diplomacy is independent.
Mutual tech: m. tech may be used for any diplomatic exchange only if both civs agree. Any tech that arises from this tech become mutual too (otherwise we would fight who will exchange it faster), a non-tech profit (for example gold if tech is 'sold') is divided.
There were also other promises added later besides of the main deal: Babylon won't send info about Assyria to other kingdoms. Assyria accepted a Bab city on a concrete position between Babylon and Asyria.
the erosion of the King's promises set in.
Can you be more concrete, my dear neighbour?
Requests became demands, and the Babylonian King didn't shun extortion.
Can you be more concrete, my dear neighbour?
Do you mean this?
I tried to convince current Assyrian King (Imsu? immortal have sometimes problems with their memory) to a very deep collaboration in technologies, and I told him otherwise I would be tempted to maximize use of the DipSys which could head that his main opponents would be strengthened. The Assyrian King blamed me for it, I think he felt DS is something like "common" thing. But this is not true, use od DS were a part of clear agreements that I always kept.
Assyria and Babylon peacefully coexisted for centuries to follow, until Assyrian scouts were massacred in Babylonia
I think this story were talked enough already and everybody can see how credible may be other parts of Assyrian explanation if Assyrian King depicts the Assyrian penetration this way. Explanation for Persian King: Assyrian King asked me if he can get position of Babylonian cities. I suggested to swap maps but he preferred scouts. I agreed although I said I would prefer a map swap. Suddenly I found out that the plan is my scouts cannot enter Assyria, only Assyrian units will enter Babylon. Because Assyria need to know trading oportunities. I refused and sent detailed info about position, size, and arrows of cities suitable for trade. Then Assyrian boat and horses were caught in Babylon. Babylonian ambassador was drunk and laughed when I protested. This was first time when the agreement (as quoted higher) were broken (Assyria won't move units in Babylonian settlement and in Babylonian east territories (east from the Eufrat/Tigris area, south from the 50th parallel) without Babylonian permission.). Still Babylon continued to keep it.
A final Assyrian offer was rejected (and a very fair one at that: Assyria would not gain anything and Babylonia would not loose anything)
Which one? Can you be more concrete, my dear neighbour?
Do you mean that after the incident with horse you pronounced you stopped to respect Babylonian borders? Including the ground for planned Babylonian city between Babylon and Assyria? And I agreed that lands between Kish, Larsa, Kurigalzu and Arraphka will be considered as disputable and I will postpone any city founding there? And I proposed only non-stacked skirmishers will be allowed there to avoid a sneak attack? And you disagreed and you conditioned cease fire by an approval that any armies will be allowed in territory between Assyria and Babylon? And I had to disagree? And I was surprised why do you set requirements for a cease fire even if a cease fire is an instrument that is normally used without any initial requirement and before talks?
I am really prepared to make our correspondence from that time public.
then the threats started again: Babylonia would end it's payments on the investments of the old days.
Do you mean that after you again and again refused to explain where your units move / intend to move in Babylonian territory I announced I decided to return to our original deal of the DS info only each 3rd turn? I agree I broke the written deal now but after you broke it first with the horsemen and after any promise you wouldn't continue in penetrations or any explanation if you penetrate with other units currently.
I think you appreciated you don't deserve the info each turn since you wrote:
If you keep this up (explanation: Assyrian King means 'hold off the info') for a considerable time, I will insist you pay me back on the investment I made for the Wonder.
So in 2870 I sent the info and announced it will be each 3rd turn only, in 2840 I sent it again and I was attacked immediatelly...
Anyway I don't understand why you attacked without warning, just after I sent the last collection of info from Diplomatic System? If you thought I did wrong something concrete why didn't you asked me about it?
Last edited by SlowThinker; February 11, 2005, 17:49.
Originally posted by germanos
I will not disclose to Pharaoh or anybody else where we will seek our compensation for the nationalized Assyrian investments, as that is a highly clasified militairy secret
I would be interested what could Assyria get from Babylon since all Babylonian cities may be destroyed only. Except Assyria thinks I collected techs from all you other civs and Assyria will get them . Or Assyria thinks I will take some important techs now so that I can defend better. I must inform you Babylon will accept no tech that is not in posession of Assyria simultaneously.
This is a picture of situation before the attack. Roads, bab units inside of borders, roads, city sizes are not shown.
This message was sent to Assyrian King:
Esteemed neighbour,
we kindly ask your boat near Kish moves back outside of the line of
Babylonian patroling units. Also we are expressing our opinion that
stacking units in the borderline doesn't help to calm situation between our nations.
I hope the war mean you decided to stay in the game 
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