Looking for some help on a Discworld scenario...

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by duke o' york
The trouble with airlifts is that they require airports. Great if you want to move stuff quickly across the map, but they also give you vet air units. This is going to be a certain victory for whichever civ gets the airport techs.

I'm not sure that victory becomes significantly easier when building vet flying units. At the moment I tend to throw them against anything that moves in order to get them vet status anyway and then use the vets for the main attack. IMO, being able to build them as vets just makes it slightly easier, and means less drudgery.

RJM at Sleeper's

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Cyrion
What I lowered the flying units attack from 5 to 4 (meaning 6 if vet) ??

I think they should stay at the strength they are. It allready takes 20 vet flying units to capture Ankh-Morpork.

Of course, the advantage of vet flying units would be great, but the incentive for sacking those places would be huge too! And with a prize of 400 shields, I suppose not too many airports would be built

Do you really think that having this tech would unbalance the game (I really don't know...)

What do you think?

I don't think it would unbalance the game. As I mentioned above, vet flying units are already part of the game, without unbalancing it. This would simply make them slightly easier to get.

RJM at Sleeper's

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Cyrion
But now a few questions:
1) how to call the telportation improvement?

I think I remember that there is a device in The Last Continent built in the high energy magic lab. Did that have a name?

2) I have 4 "places" (Holy Wood, Bel Shamaroth, etc.) where I could give tech upon sacking, so what should I do: make the teleportation tech untradable and give the same tech in all 4 places, so that most have an opportunity to get i?? Or give another tech in 2 of the places??

My vote would be for a different tech in 2 places, if there is a suitable one avaiilable. It would have to be something that is very useful, but not crucial.

3) should the teleportation tech be untradable??

I don't think it need be made untradeable. Because of their nature, the AI civs will not deliberately sack one of these places. After that it's up to the human player whether he (or she) trades it.

4) Do you agree with the idea of a really expensive "airport" (around 3-400 shields, maybe??) ?

It's a useful thing to have, but not vital. Therefore expensive, but not so costly that it never gets built. I suspect it should be around the level of a superhighway in the vanila version - but I don't know how many shields that is.

RJM at Sleeper's

[Cyrion]

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
I think I remember that there is a device in The Last Continent built in the high energy magic lab. Did that have a name?

I don't think it had a name, but I can check nonetheless...

My vote would be for a different tech in 2 places, if there is a suitable one avaiilable. It would have to be something that is very useful, but not crucial.

I think I'll give Teleportation in 2 places, and National Hero (still researchable) in the 2 others! We'll try like that!

I don't think it need be made untradeable. Because of their nature, the AI civs will not deliberately sack one of these places. After that it's up to the human player whether he (or she) trades it.

I must admit I was thinking more along PBEM lines... So yes, you're probably right, let's make it tradable! (not so easy, though, if I want it unresearchable! It'll maybe end up being untradable anyway... )

It's a useful thing to have, but not vital. Therefore expensive, but not so costly that it never gets built. I suspect it should be around the level of a superhighway in the vanila version - but I don't know how many shields that is.

Yes, the price will be in that area, I guess, so that it is built, but not everywhere!

I'm not sure that victory becomes significantly easier when building vet flying units. At the moment I tend to throw them against anything that moves in order to get them vet status anyway and then use the vets for the main attack. IMO, being able to build them as vets just makes it slightly easier, and means less drudgery.

I remembered that you wrote you did, that's why I think vet flying units shouldn't be such a change!

I think they should stay at the strength they are. It allready takes 20 vet flying units to capture Ankh-Morpork.

Yes, I'll keep them how they are!

And anyway, taking A-M is an heroic deed, so why use flying units...


I'll update the scen with most of your last comments and send it, along with a list of the modifications I did!

BTW: still waiting for more "Librarian" proposals...

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Cyrion
And anyway, taking A-M is an heroic deed, so why use flying units...

I tried it once with Heroes (at 2/3rds strength) and it seemed to take about the same number. (I didn't want to leave them out in the open to get a full attack next turn because of their vulnerability to wizards.)

As far as the librarian is concerned, I presume it has to be a text string. I was wondering about indicating rank order by showing a different number of bananas.

RJM at Sleeper's

[duke o' york]

Major problem!

The barbarian heroes have dried up completely! When rjm suggested that they were too easy to come by, you said that you'd make them appear less often, but the villages still appear every turn after you've destroyed one. Could it be that you've made it so that the barbarian villages only give you a hero once every (say) 10 turns, whereas you should have had it that the villages only reappear once every 10 turns? I wasted loads of scout units for no reward whatsoever.

I'm playing as Omnia (winter '42 at the moment), and am quite pleased with my progress so far.
I lost the easternmost city to the Independents quite early, and now Klatch have captured it, but I don't care about getting it back. I made a point of capturing (and holding) Chirm very early so that I'd have a free run to dump all of my caravans into A-M. I'm running a power fundy and am ahead in tech by this method. A-M keep declaring war on me, losing a few scouts against Chirm's Divine Legion2s and then suing for peace the next turn.
I used exquisitors a fair bit but now I have the turtle tank things. They're cool! I took Ephebe eventually (they had about 8 billion crossbowmen to defend it), and got some good wonders just by getting a single food caravan into Kom, and then buying the rest of the shields. There was no urgency, but otherwise I have too much money, and it makes the other civs jealous.
I've got aqueducts in all my cities, but no sewers yet. Delighted with my progress, and especially with the progress of one sailboat, as it made it most of the way across the sea, and survived for 4 turns before sinking.

Cyrion, I know that too many cooks might spoil the broth and mean that you put back the launch of this scenario for ages, but maybe we could get La Fayette on board as a playtester. Just a thought.

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by duke o' york
Major problem!

The barbarian heroes have dried up completely! When rjm suggested that they were too easy to come by, you said that you'd make them appear less often, but the villages still appear every turn after you've destroyed one. Could it be that you've made it so that the barbarian villages only give you a hero once every (say) 10 turns, whereas you should have had it that the villages only reappear once every 10 turns? I wasted loads of scout units for no reward whatsoever.

I am confused. (You see I told you I was confused. )

I didn't realise You (Cyrion) had released a version in which there was a limitation on the number of heroes. Am I wrong, or is there a possibility that something else has dried up the supply of heroes? DoY - you haven't lost your capital have you? (Just a thought.)

As for LF, I'm sure he would be a good play tester. I think he's having connection problems at the moment though. I seem to remember a post on one of the succession games saying something like that.

RJM at Sleeper's

[Cyrion]

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
I am confused. (You see I told you I was confused. )

I didn't realise You (Cyrion) had released a version in which there was a limitation on the number of heroes.

Neither did I

I rechecked the latest .zip I sent, and here is what changed regarding the heroes in it: I just added a text saying you had recruited a hero every time 1 is created

The barbarian heroes have dried up completely! When rjm suggested that they were too easy to come by, you said that you'd make them appear less often, but the villages still appear every turn after you've destroyed one. Could it be that you've made it so that the barbarian villages only give you a hero once every (say) 10 turns, whereas you should have had it that the villages only reappear once every 10 turns? I wasted loads of scout units for no reward whatsoever.

Sorry about your scouts

As I wrote above, I think I only changed the text upon hiring a hero

And what I intend to do for the next modification (hiopefully tonight/tomorrow) is exactly what you said: make the village reappear every 8-10 rounds, and of course give a hero everytime it is destroyed!

I'll test that before sending, this time...

I'm playing as Omnia (winter '42 at the moment), and am quite pleased with my progress so far.
I lost the easternmost city to the Independents quite early, and now Klatch have captured it, but I don't care about getting it back. I made a point of capturing (and holding) Chirm very early so that I'd have a free run to dump all of my caravans into A-M. I'm running a power fundy and am ahead in tech by this method. A-M keep declaring war on me, losing a few scouts against Chirm's Divine Legion2s and then suing for peace the next turn.
I used exquisitors a fair bit but now I have the turtle tank things. They're cool!

Strong enough but not too strong?

I took Ephebe eventually (they had about 8 billion crossbowmen to defend it),

Yes, that was the idea! I mean, it is an interesting city to own, isn't it??

and got some good wonders just by getting a single food caravan into Kom, and then buying the rest of the shields. There was no urgency, but otherwise I have too much money, and it makes the other civs jealous.
I've got aqueducts in all my cities, but no sewers yet. Delighted with my progress, and especially with the progress of one sailboat, as it made it most of the way across the sea, and survived for 4 turns before sinking.

Did you hire Llamedos Jones as a navigator??

Cyrion, I know that too many cooks might spoil the broth and mean that you put back the launch of this scenario for ages, but maybe we could get La Fayette on board as a playtester. Just a thought.

What an horrible thing to do: proposing to a scen creator that LF might give his scen a try, and dismember it (erh... win the game ) în 10-20 turns!

Of course, it's an excellent idea! If you can convince Michel to help, he is more than welcome!

[duke o' york]

The problem with the heroes is that I get the message, but don't get any heroes. I'm guessing that Kom is my capital, because it has the fortress there, but I didn't receive any heroes, even when I had all the starting cities.
The message for the heroes is great, but I'd have flattened Ephebe long before I did if I'd got a few of them.
Maybe it's just a problem with Omnia. Try a quick test with them to see if you can get heroes. I'm sure that my Civ 2 is all right, but if I've got a bug then I'd like to know about it! I'll send LF a PM and ask him if he'd like me to e-mail him the beta. Even better, I'll just put him in touch with you Cyrion, if that's all right. That way he can get the latest versions when they appear.
Really enjoying it so far, and have not come to depend upon the heroes, as I thought I might. On the other hand, I have come to depend heavily upon the trading wonders of A-M.

[Cyrion]

"Curious and curiouser"...

I did some testing yesterday, and the problem appeared ONLY for Omnia and Ankh-Morpork! (without any visible reason in the events file!). I then changed the places of creation and everything was fine...

I then checked the latest .scn file and noticed that it was somehow "corrputed" (probably by myself while creating the 2nd Public worker for each civ... ): there were an Independent PW in A-M (what was he doing there? and the're not supposed to EVER have one, much less 1 from start) and 1 Klatchian PW in Kom!

So those (and maybe others...) "parasite" units might well lead the AI to think these cities don't belong to their rightful owner and so refuses to create units in them!

So I'll just need to rework on the .scn file and resend the whole to you (hopefully with the "modified" techs gained by sacking places

[Cyrion]

OK, first of all I would like to apologize: I wanted to modify / test / send the new file yesterday evening, so that you would have time to test it over the week-end, but I wasn't quick enough, and at 1h30 AM decided to go to bed...

The Hero creation problem is solved, and it was indeed caused by "parasite" units in A-M and Kom! The villages, after destruction, reappear a few turns later (won't tell you how many...).

I then changed the events related to Bel Shamaroth & Co, added a Teleportation tech and Teleportation Gate improvement!

Then my event file proved slightly too big, so I'll just need to make some surgical removal in my comments till the size fits, and test the result before I can send the file!

Some descriptions (Teleportation related, and about the Librarian intervention) still need to be written too (but that wouldn't influence the testing, so I might send the file before that!)

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Cyrion
OK, first of all I would like to apologize:

There's nothing to apologize for - were all here because we enjoy it.

Glad to hear that you've sorted out the problems and added some new features. I look forward to seeing them in action.

RJM at Sleeper's

[Cyrion]

Playtest version 3...

New (corrected and improved) version sent

The events file is now filled to the brim!

Did you know that the comments you put in the file DON'T affect its size as it is perceived by the civII engine?

Which means I don't need to remove my comments

PS: Nick, I couldn't send it to you, your box is full...

PS2: I haven't modified the description (Teleportation and Librarian) yet

[Cyrion]

Maybe if we all tried it with a different civ, it would provide a more "thorough" test?

I'll start a game with the Ramtop Kingdoms! (probably the hardest...)

[Xuenay]

*DROOL*

Woah... it was very nice to hear about this topic still being alive, and even more nice to find out that people were still working on it! Almost makes me ashamed for abandoning this scenario and not helping you guys...

Well, in any case, the posts I read made it look like this'd be a very interesting scenario. I can't wait to play it - even reinstalled Civ 2 just for that purpose. Hurry up and release it to the public! ^^