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  • I played a few more turns and allowed myself to display some of my more serious failings as a Civ II player. I have been sending a lot of merchants to A-M. From time to time the AI shows it's nature by sneak attacking these defenceless units. I should simply shrug my shoulders and wait for an opportunity to get a cease fire and a treaty. I did do this the first couple of times, but when they attacked a merchant again I decided to teach them a lesson. Teach them a lesson? It's a computer for heaven's sake. It doesn't have any feelings. It won't even know that it's been taught a lesson. It won't remember that its been taught a lesson. It will play exactly the same way next time. And so I suspect will I. Like the Bourbons I can remember nothing and forget nothing.

    But to return to the game for a moment. Because of the size of the map and the need to have enough units of the right type to make the next move, there are periods in the game that involve a lot of micro management and little action. It would be good if there were some form of activity or (perhaps) story line to keep the player's interest through these parts of the game. However, I can offer no suggestion.

    Perhaps I should go and investigate that mysterious new island with its untold riches. But that would involve building a boat and diverting some of my army away from its next conquest.

    Perhaps you could arrange for the librarian to give random updates on the state of play in much the same way as the game gives us lists of the richest, happiest, etc from time to time.

    How about an oracle that can be visited in a similar way to the barbarian villages. The "attacking" unit is transported back to your capital and the oracle mutters a random and inpenetrable prediction (and gives you a bonus to your tech research). I suspect that you have little space left to attempt anything like that and I'm not sure such a thing exists anywhere on the disk. Oh well, back to the game.

    RJM at Sleeper's
    Fill me with the old familiar juice

    Comment


    • I'm very sorry Cyrion, but I had a far too junior weekend for my years, with a few old friends coming to visit so I didn't manage to get any games played at all. I wanted to do it yesterday evening but a chance meeting in the pub led to my going to see Newcastle at Bolton for free. We lost, but it was a very good day out.

      Sorry though, but I'll try to get some turns played this week. My girlfriend comes back today though, so it may not be until next weekend.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
        Teach them a lesson? It's a computer for heaven's sake. It doesn't have any feelings. It won't even know that it's been taught a lesson. It won't remember that its been taught a lesson. It will play exactly the same way next time. And so I suspect will I. Like the Bourbons I can remember nothing and forget nothing.
        I must admit that I like trying to teach the computer a lesson! And it doesn't learn, no prob: that will give me more opportunities to vent my frustration in the future

        But to return to the game for a moment. Because of the size of the map and the need to have enough units of the right type to make the next move, there are periods in the game that involve a lot of micro management and little action. It would be good if there were some form of activity or (perhaps) story line to keep the player's interest through these parts of the game. However, I can offer no suggestion.

        Perhaps I should go and investigate that mysterious new island with its untold riches. But that would involve building a boat and diverting some of my army away from its next conquest.

        Perhaps you could arrange for the librarian to give random updates on the state of play in much the same way as the game gives us lists of the richest, happiest, etc from time to time.

        How about an oracle that can be visited in a similar way to the barbarian villages. The "attacking" unit is transported back to your capital and the oracle mutters a random and inpenetrable prediction (and gives you a bonus to your tech research). I suspect that you have little space left to attempt anything like that and I'm not sure such a thing exists anywhere on the disk. Oh well, back to the game.
        Now we are no longer talking about tweaking! I'll see if I can find something to keep the players interested in the middle part of the game, but I have no idea right now!

        And as you correctly supposed, I have very little space left to do that: I might add 1-2 simple vents, but have no unit slot left!

        What I can do is fool around with the historians and replace them all with the librarian, but that would give me very little in the way of creativity! (but it would allow me to say "Ook" a lot, which is not to be disdained ).

        So it wouldn't bring much, except some more atmosphere, but I'll probably do something about it!

        If anybody has another idea, please tell!!
        Ankh-Morpork, we have an orangutan...
        Discworld Scenario: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...8&pagenumber=1
        POMARJ Scenario:http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showt...8&pagenumber=1
        LOST LEGIONS Scenario:http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showt...hreadid=169464

        Comment


        • Originally posted by duke o' york
          I'm very sorry Cyrion, but I had a far too junior weekend for my years, with a few old friends coming to visit so I didn't manage to get any games played at all. I wanted to do it yesterday evening but a chance meeting in the pub led to my going to see Newcastle at Bolton for free. We lost, but it was a very good day out.

          Sorry though, but I'll try to get some turns played this week. My girlfriend comes back today though, so it may not be until next weekend.
          Don't worry about that: an evening with old friends and a good game of football (not to speak about the girlfriend ) are definitely worth a small delay for the release!

          And I wouldn't complain as I didn't play half as much as I had intended this week-end either, so there are still a few things I would like to try (like the best way to use the word "Ook!".

          So you see, with that, and the new comments from rjm, I wouldn't have released it today anyway
          Ankh-Morpork, we have an orangutan...
          Discworld Scenario: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...8&pagenumber=1
          POMARJ Scenario:http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showt...8&pagenumber=1
          LOST LEGIONS Scenario:http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showt...hreadid=169464

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Cyrion

            What I can do is fool around with the historians and replace them all with the librarian, but that would give me very little in the way of creativity! (but it would allow me to say "Ook" a lot, which is not to be disdained ).

            So it wouldn't bring much, except some more atmosphere, but I'll probably do something about it!
            I think that sounds like a very good idea - it would enhance the atmosphere and reinforce the fact that this is not vanilla civ.

            RJM at Sleeper's
            Fill me with the old familiar juice

            Comment


            • Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
              I think that sounds like a very good idea - it would enhance the atmosphere and reinforce the fact that this is not vanilla civ.
              RJM at Sleeper's
              OK, I'm working on it, but I'm afraid I'm not as witty as I would have liked...

              Here is how it'll look:
              "The Librarian of Unseen University completes his epic history: 'Ook', or 'The %STRING2 Civilizations in the World'"

              And now I need something more "Librarianish" for the following lists (and yes, I thought about using "ook" everywhere...); bananas and ooks welcomed

              WEALTHIEST
              MOST POWERFUL
              MOST ADVANCED
              HAPPIEST
              LARGEST

              Glorious
              Great
              Fine
              Mediocre
              Puny
              Pathetic
              Hopeless


              Please help
              Ankh-Morpork, we have an orangutan...
              Discworld Scenario: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...8&pagenumber=1
              POMARJ Scenario:http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showt...8&pagenumber=1
              LOST LEGIONS Scenario:http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showt...hreadid=169464

              Comment


              • Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
                there are periods in the game that involve a lot of micro management and little action. It would be good if there were some form of activity or (perhaps) story line to keep the player's interest through these parts of the game. However, I can offer no suggestion.
                ...
                How about an oracle that can be visited in a similar way to the barbarian villages. The "attacking" unit is transported back to your capital and the oracle mutters a random and inpenetrable prediction (and gives you a bonus to your tech research). I suspect that you have little space left to attempt anything like that and I'm not sure such a thing exists anywhere on the disk. Oh well, back to the game.
                RJM at Sleeper's
                About this "weak/uneventful" middle part of the game, here is what I could do:

                Up to now, 2 techs trigger the appearance of Holy Wood, Bel Shamaroth, Great Pyramid of Tsort and Tezuman Temple.

                What I could do is make these DD units appear at some definite times (instead of tech discovery) and give some hints about where they are via messages, so that a quest could be launched to find them, as their discovery (and sacking) brings a lot of money (would 5000 gold be correct?? )? And I could make it 4 times (once for each of the 4 units) which could "occupy" a few rounds... This is, if I can make some room in my events file, of course (should be doable...).

                What do you think??

                (and I would of course reuse the 2 techs somewhere else in my tree, as there are bl00dy nice descriptions I wrote for them )
                Ankh-Morpork, we have an orangutan...
                Discworld Scenario: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...8&pagenumber=1
                POMARJ Scenario:http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showt...8&pagenumber=1
                LOST LEGIONS Scenario:http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showt...hreadid=169464

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Cyrion


                  About this "weak/uneventful" middle part of the game, here is what I could do:

                  Up to now, 2 techs trigger the appearance of Holy Wood, Bel Shamaroth, Great Pyramid of Tsort and Tezuman Temple.

                  What I could do is make these DD units appear at some definite times (instead of tech discovery) and give some hints about where they are via messages, so that a quest could be launched to find them, as their discovery (and sacking) brings a lot of money (would 5000 gold be correct?? )? And I could make it 4 times (once for each of the 4 units) which could "occupy" a few rounds... This is, if I can make some room in my events file, of course (should be doable...).

                  What do you think??

                  (and I would of course reuse the 2 techs somewhere else in my tree, as there are bl00dy nice descriptions I wrote for them )
                  This sounds like a good idea. I sacked one of them once, but I was disapointed with the result. I'd prefer a free tech (or a barbarian warrior) to lots of gold.

                  Another possibility that might help is being able magically to transport goods and units to another city (airlift). Distances are long and without railroads, it takes time to move around.

                  RJM at Sleeper's
                  Fill me with the old familiar juice

                  Comment


                  • For wealthiest, could you have something like:

                    "The Mercantile Guild publish the A-M $ exchange rates:"?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
                      This sounds like a good idea. I sacked one of them once, but I was disapointed with the result. I'd prefer a free tech (or a barbarian warrior) to lots of gold.

                      Another possibility that might help is being able magically to transport goods and units to another city (airlift). Distances are long and without railroads, it takes time to move around.
                      There's no way I know to give you a free tech (I mean, except a specific one that you would then don't need to research?? that could be an idea...).

                      What do you think: upon sacking one of them places, you get heaps of gold + the National Hero tech (which has no less than 10 direct or indirect pre-requisites...)?

                      Maybe I could make 2 sets of techs (2 places giving 1 tech, and the 2 others the 2nd one), but what would then be the 2nd one?

                      Now about airlift: yes, I think I could easily allow for a replacement for Airport (what would it be? Teleportation pod??), which I could make buildable upon research (hey, I think I might now have 2 free tech slots too bad about the already written descriptions ), but REALLY expensive, as I wouldn't want too many of them!
                      Hey, wait, wasn't I looking for a tech you would get by discovering a place? Now, what if THE ONLY WAY to build teleportation or whatever was to pillage such a place? Sounds neat, doesn't it?? And I coul even make that tech untradable...

                      What do you all (and by all, I mean Case, Arthedan, Yaroslav and others too, not only rjm and Duke of yorkthink about all this?
                      Ankh-Morpork, we have an orangutan...
                      Discworld Scenario: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...8&pagenumber=1
                      POMARJ Scenario:http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showt...8&pagenumber=1
                      LOST LEGIONS Scenario:http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showt...hreadid=169464

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by duke o' york
                        For wealthiest, could you have something like:

                        "The Mercantile Guild publish the A-M $ exchange rates:"?
                        I'm afraid it doesn't work like that! If I use this sentence, it would have to do for all historians...

                        I can only use 1 sentence for all "historian appearances", and in that sentence I can only change 3 words (or maybe sets of words?).

                        In the original game, the lists of words are:
                        1) historian name
                        2)the state of the civ (the wealthiest to largest list)
                        3) a qualificative for the civ (the glorious to hopeless list)

                        So there is only 1 really free parameter, the 1st one, as the 2 others are applied automatically! But I still would like to modify them too...

                        Any suggestion??
                        Ankh-Morpork, we have an orangutan...
                        Discworld Scenario: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...8&pagenumber=1
                        POMARJ Scenario:http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showt...8&pagenumber=1
                        LOST LEGIONS Scenario:http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showt...hreadid=169464

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Cyrion


                          There's no way I know to give you a free tech (I mean, except a specific one that you would then don't need to research?? that could be an idea...).

                          What do you think: upon sacking one of them places, you get heaps of gold + the National Hero tech (which has no less than 10 direct or indirect pre-requisites...)?

                          Maybe I could make 2 sets of techs (2 places giving 1 tech, and the 2 others the 2nd one), but what would then be the 2nd one?

                          Now about airlift: yes, I think I could easily allow for a replacement for Airport (what would it be? Teleportation pod??), which I could make buildable upon research (hey, I think I might now have 2 free tech slots too bad about the already written descriptions ), but REALLY expensive, as I wouldn't want too many of them!
                          Hey, wait, wasn't I looking for a tech you would get by discovering a place? Now, what if THE ONLY WAY to build teleportation or whatever was to pillage such a place? Sounds neat, doesn't it?? And I coul even make that tech untradable...

                          What do you all (and by all, I mean Case, Arthedan, Yaroslav and others too, not only rjm and Duke of yorkthink about all this?
                          I like the idea of a tech that can only be obtained by sacking one of those places and teleportation sounds good. Alternatively, if you can't give a tech, can you give some beakers?

                          As far as words for the librarian (historian) are concerned, I'll get back to you if I can think of anything.

                          RJM at Sleeper's
                          Fill me with the old familiar juice

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by rjmatsleepers


                            I like the idea of a tech that can only be obtained by sacking one of those places and teleportation sounds good. Alternatively, if you can't give a tech, can you give some beakers?

                            As far as words for the librarian (historian) are concerned, I'll get back to you if I can think of anything.

                            RJM at Sleeper's
                            I can give a specific tech without any problem! And I coulnd't give beakers So I guess a Teleportation tech could be it!

                            But now a few questions:
                            1) how to call the telportation improvement?
                            2) I have 4 "places" (Holy Wood, Bel Shamaroth, etc.) where I could give tech upon sacking, so what should I do: make the teleportation tech untradable and give the same tech in all 4 places, so that most have an opportunity to get i?? Or give another tech in 2 of the places??
                            3) should the teleportation tech be untradable??
                            4) Do you agree with the idea of a really expensive "airport" (around 3-400 shields, maybe??) ?
                            Ankh-Morpork, we have an orangutan...
                            Discworld Scenario: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...8&pagenumber=1
                            POMARJ Scenario:http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showt...8&pagenumber=1
                            LOST LEGIONS Scenario:http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showt...hreadid=169464

                            Comment


                            • The trouble with airlifts is that they require airports. Great if you want to move stuff quickly across the map, but they also give you vet air units. This is going to be a certain victory for whichever civ gets the airport techs.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by duke o' york
                                The trouble with airlifts is that they require airports. Great if you want to move stuff quickly across the map, but they also give you vet air units. This is going to be a certain victory for whichever civ gets the airport techs.
                                What I lowered the flying units attack from 5 to 4 (meaning 6 if vet) ??

                                Of course, the advantage of vet flying units would be great, but the incentive for sacking those places would be huge too! And with a prize of 400 shields, I suppose not too many airports would be built

                                Do you really think that having this tech would unbalance the game (I really don't know...)

                                What do you think?
                                Ankh-Morpork, we have an orangutan...
                                Discworld Scenario: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...8&pagenumber=1
                                POMARJ Scenario:http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showt...8&pagenumber=1
                                LOST LEGIONS Scenario:http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showt...hreadid=169464

                                Comment

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