Looking for some help on a Discworld scenario...

[Cyrion]

Comments on playtest

So, no comment at all? Not even on how it looks? Is it nice, or awful??

Up to now I only had some feedback from Yaroslav, is it really so bad that you dont feel like telling me??

Or is it just difficult to figure what to do, now that the pedia isn't written yet??

Or, hopefully, is it only RL taking much space??

Anyway, I'll enclose here what Yaroslav sent me, so that we can all share our thoughts on it (and don't hesitate to be harsh if necessary!).

Sent by Yaroslav:
Anyway, a few notes about the scen playing as Ank-Morph:
1) The civ starts with trade unit but no Trade tech, so the Supply&Demmand of F5 doesn't work. To correct it, you need to give the trade tech since the beginning.

2) The units: aren't there personalized units? Because I think A-M is very very powerful (with Guilds to put the people happy I'm able to mantain a sustained 3-turns-per-tech research), so maybe weaken units will balance that.

3) I think that the tech-rate, at least the one of A-M is way too fast... Can you slow that?

1) yes, I noticed! I think I had a reason for that, but as I can't remember what it was, it shouldn't be a crucial one...

So I'll change that for th next playtest version!

2) Yes, A-M is really powerful! There is a way for other civs to research the techs that obsolete 2 of the Wonders though, but unless they cooperate, they stay behind A-M technically.
So how to "balance" it a bit? Using the units stats might be an idea, or making sure that A-M can't build guilds maybe (of course, the guilds "belong" more to A-M than any other place, but it would then be a matter of playability...)

Any other idea on the way to balance it?

What I can imagine is giving only the city itself at the start instead of 5 cities! That could be a good solution for that, what do you think??
(and of course, that would be easy to implement... )

3) And if A-M only has 1 city at the start, that should slow their tech rate as well, but would it be enough??

Otherwise I can change the ratio (30/10 up to now), but that could be too slow for other civs! Did someone start with another one? what rate did you achieve??

Here below you'll find a new rules.txt file: it doesn't change much, except the "flags" attached to the techs, telling you what kind of tech it is. This might help you to "plan" your tech research...

Oh, and check the "Speculative thread": I redesign the Rincewind unit... And tell me what you think...

[Cyrion]

Slowing A-M research

Or of course I could easily reduce the amount of trade the City Suburbs terrain produces!

Maybe reducing this by one AND giving the 4 cities to the Independents would do the trick??

[rjmatsleepers]

I've played as AM and as (I think) the Ramtop Kingdom. It was sufficiently addictive that I played for about 6 hours straight. I enjoyed the graphics - particularly some of the bad guys. I also like the atmospheric messages. (I assume they are atmospheric )

There was a (non lethal) problem when AM starves - a rather odd message appears about losing a trade route. I have some other comments which I will send. Unfortunately the computer with MGE installed is not connected to the net, so I need to compose off line. RL has got in the way a bit, but I'll try to send some comments soon.

RJM at Sleeper's

[Cyrion]

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
I've played as AM and as (I think) the Ramtop Kingdom. It was sufficiently addictive that I played for about 6 hours straight.

You just convinced me it's worth keeping working on it and writing the descriptions in the txt files!

I enjoyed the graphics - particularly some of the bad guys. I also like the atmospheric messages. (I assume they are atmospheric )

Glad you like the graphics! Do you feel that some need to be improved/changed?? (except for Bel-Shamaroth, of course...)

And the messages (some of then still need to be written/improved, suggestions welcomed...) are not only atmospheric: they most of the time warn upon a (Dungeon Dimension) unit creation linked to a tech discovery somewhere on the map. (But I'm glad if you feel they bring something to the atmosphere: it was 1 of their goals too!)

Those unit are supposed to be destroyed by the player (which might be difficult, hopefully), for 2 different reasons:
1) for some of them, it would bring quite a lot of money to the attacker!
2) for others, it would then prevent further creation of DD "aggressive" units which could prove dangerous for the other civs...

Some of the units created are static (Temple of Bel-Shamaroth, Holy Wood, Great Pyramid, ...) and others are not (3 Horsemen).

There was a (non lethal) problem when AM starves - a rather odd message appears about losing a trade route.

I noticed something like that, I'll check where it might come from (maybe from my tweaking of the label.txt...)

I have some other comments which I will send. Unfortunately the computer with MGE installed is not connected to the net, so I need to compose off line. RL has got in the way a bit, but I'll try to send some comments soon.

Take your time sending your comments (even if I'm eager to read them ): I still need to write a lot of descriptions before the scen is close to be finished...

BTW, did you llok at the Rincewind unit in the Speculative thread? What do you think, compared to the other one??

And thanks for your comments (and support!)

[rjmatsleepers]

I looked at Rincewind in the speculative thread - cool!

I didn't get much chance to look at him in the playtest version. He appeared while I was busy trying to recover cities from the bad guys and trying to protect A-M. He lasted about 1 turn. I never managed to figure out what he did. I had the same problem with death. I needed units; he was thrown into the fire fight and never emerged.

RJM at Sleeper's

[Cyrion]

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
I looked at Rincewind in the speculative thread - cool!

Thanks

I didn't get much chance to look at him in the playtest version. He appeared while I was busy trying to recover cities from the bad guys and trying to protect A-M. He lasted about 1 turn. I never managed to figure out what he did. I had the same problem with death. I needed units; he was thrown into the fire fight and never emerged.

OK, I guess this is something that'll need to be adressed in the description files!

In short, Rincewind (like the other civs unique units. Deacon Vorbis, Esme Weatherwax, etc...) has 2 roles:
1) he is a strong offensive unit
2) he is the only unit (for this civ) able to carry the Portal Closure spell that'll be needed (or at the very least extremely useful) to destroy the city of Ee towards the end of the game!

About Death: he can be researched to fight against the 3 horsemen of Apocralypse that appear after some research! Of course, they can be destroyed by other units, and Death can be used for other attacks (but beware: only once...)

So I think I really need to explain things in the description files, which I started (but barely) tonight, BTW

I was busy trying to recover cities from the bad guys and trying to protect A-M

what where the bad guys? other "playable" civs or Dungeon Dimensions?? which units??

And did you recruit Barbarian Heroes?


And @ Arthedain: did you try yet??

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Cyrion

what where the bad guys? other "playable" civs or Dungeon Dimensions?? which units??

And did you recruit Barbarian Heroes?

And @ Arthedain: did you try yet??

The bad guys who captured nearly half my cities at one stage were the orange one - Dungeon Dimensions? They got me with their Monster's of Ee (or something like that). I think they hit me pretty hard with their blue dragon things until I realised that these were easier to deal with by premptive attack when they were out in the open. I (eventually) found that the improved watch unit was better for recapturing cities than the wizard unit, although I was able to use the wizards for a long range attack on an orange city that was quite a long way from my main area. I started building some turtle units which were reasonably effective.

I didn't recruit any Barbarian Heroes - should I have researched something or perhaps I missed something. I haven't tried @ Arthedain yet - what is it, a super unit?

I played as AM until I had the message about closing the portal. I then started building ships and sending out explorers to look for it, but didn't find it.

I think you are right about working on the description files, etc. keep up the good work!

RJM at Sleeper's

[Cyrion]

OK, thanks for the feedback!

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
The bad guys who captured nearly half my cities at one stage were the orange one - Dungeon Dimensions? They got me with their Monster's of Ee (or something like that). I think they hit me pretty hard with their blue dragon things until I realised that these were easier to deal with by premptive attack when they were out in the open.

Nearly half your cities?? Ouch, that hurts!

Yes, the Orange is the Dungeon Dimension, the scen baddies!

The Monster of Ee is the default unit they build when they take a city (because it's in the settler slot, and they can't build anything!). I they gave you so much trouble, maybe it'll need some balncing, or adding a monster they can effectively build (maybe a weak and cheap unit like "corrupted humans" representing humans under the influence of DD?? might be an idea...)

About the dragon: they all get generated in 1 place: if you can find their lair (the Wyrmberg) and destroy it, no more dragons will appear... Good hunt!

I (eventually) found that the improved watch unit was better for recapturing cities than the wizard unit, although I was able to use the wizards for a long range attack on an orange city that was quite a long way from my main area. I started building some turtle units which were reasonably effective.

Yes, theorically, both Watch Officers (I guess it's what you mean by "improved watch units"?) and Wizards should have their use, but the Improved attack unit for A-M is the assassin, Watch Officer being the improved defensive unit (and Wizard being the flying unit).

Do you mean the attack was more effective with Watch Officer than with Wizards?? That would be strange... Anyway, one of the goals of the playtest is to balance units!

And you were able to build Moving turtle units?? if yes, then there is a bug, as it is a unit reserved for Omnia!

Should be easy to correct, though...

I didn't recruit any Barbarian Heroes - should I have researched something or perhaps I missed something. I haven't tried @ Arthedain yet - what is it, a super unit?

THe Barbarians Heroes can be recruited by attacking one of their 2 Villages on the map (look towards the borders of the map); there is an endless supply of themguys there, BUT beware the unit doing the "recruiting"...

And Arthedain is not a super unit (well, maybe he is), but another playtester...

I played as AM until I had the message about closing the portal. I then started building ships and sending out explorers to look for it, but didn't find it.

That's why the City of Ee is lost...

Some very interesting points you brought there, I'll see what would be good to do about them!

And I'll keep on working on the description files!

[Arthedain]

Cyrion: I'm sorry for not having replied sooner. I have tried it some, as Ankh-Morpork 8since I thought it would be easiest for me now hehe).
I'm sorry to say that real life has made it hard for me to play so much.
Anyways, I have conquered Quirm and Chirm and explored some. I have made contact with 5 of the 6 others, and I have made two attempts to conquer Zemphis, bot of them unsuccessfull (I lost two armies). I have now given up the idea of conquering Zemphis and am rebuilding my army. I have created one own city north-west of Sto Kerrig and one colony at the moth of a river in the west (24,54), as I have explored the whole coastline there.

So far I have no big problems with understanding this scenario, all improvements are clear (thank god for the help-button ) Still my most powerful units should be the assassin (attack) and the Watch Officer (defence), though I can build wisards now (haven't tested them yet).

I understand that I shall fight the "Monstrous" armies but so far I have only found one city that belongs to them, Skund (80,46) in a forest far to the north east.
I still have much to learn about this scenario though.

[Arthedain]

Attached a zip-file with a screenie of my "Empire" so far..

[Arthedain]

Bah! The file:

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Cyrion

Do you mean the attack was more effective with Watch Officer than with Wizards?? That would be strange... Anyway, one of the goals of the playtest is to balance units!

And you were able to build Moving turtle units?? if yes, then there is a bug, as it is a unit reserved for Omnia!

Should be easy to correct, though...

My mistake (I'm writing these forum contributions at a different computer from the one with my game notes) - it was the assasin unit that I used to recover my cities. And yes, I was able to trade technologies and subsequently build moving turtles. In another game (as Ramtop(?)) I was able to build monsters of Ee in a couple of cities - was that a mistake as well?

I don't think (yet) that you need to rebalance the units. I'd probably left my home cities under defended because I'd moved the bulk of my forces south as part of an offensive against another civ. Once I changed the sliders and started rush building units, I was able to recapture everything - it did exhaust my treasury though and brought research to a halt.

One thing that I did find odd. Playing as AM I was overuled by the senate a couple of times. I can't imagine any senator who tried to overule Lord Vetinari lasting very long.

RJM at Sleeper's

[Cyrion]

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
And yes, I was able to trade technologies and subsequently build moving turtles. In another game (as Ramtop(?)) I was able to build monsters of Ee in a couple of cities - was that a mistake as well?

OK, my rules file was unecplicably modified and the obsoleting techs removed from the unit list!

My guess is that it came from my using the f***ing unit editor (which I won't EVER do again)

Thankfully, this can be adressed in a few minutes!

I'm not sure this would solve the Monster of Ee problem, though...

One thing that I did find odd. Playing as AM I was overuled by the senate a couple of times. I can't imagine any senator who tried to overule Lord Vetinari lasting very long.

True enough! I'm not sure I'll do something about it, though

Ok, Ill correct the obsolescence things (as well as adress the other comments) when I come back from skiing this afternoon!

I'll then send you the new files (to you too, Case)

[Case]

Originally posted by Cyrion
Ok, Ill correct the obsolescence things (as well as adress the other comments) when I come back from skiing this afternoon!

I'll then send you the new files (to you too, Case)

I'm looking forward to it!

[Cyrion]

Sorry, I got a bit delayed by RL...

I'll send the new files by midweek!