Freeciv for windows needs Civ2MP veteran Beta testers!

[winzity]

Is that to made a turn based game simul?

I don't think so! It's a big disadvantage for FC that you can't choose turn based or simul play...!

[rah]

Originally posted by CapTVK
FC has been around for years (it was started in 1995, before Civ2 came out in 1996) and was designed with goal to create a free MP version of Civ (and later on Civ2). The emphasis was on multiplayer, not singleplayer (hence the long lack of AI diplomacy). Because FC centered on MP from the outset most issues/problems relating to MP have been fixed or adressed in some way to keep things balanced.

And how does it do that?

[CapTVK]

Re: Is that to made a turn based game simul?

Originally posted by winzity
I don't think so! It's a big disadvantage for FC that you can't choose turn based or simul play...!

The human players can move at the same time. The computer civs only move after you've ended your turn. If you play FC alone against the computer it's essentially turn based .

[winzity]

Re: Re: Is that to made a turn based game simul?

Originally posted by CapTVK


The human players can move at the same time. The computer civs only move after you've ended your turn. If you play FC alone against the computer it's essentially turn based .

I don't play with AIs. I hate AIs! I play the turn based game Civ 2 MP with ONLY humans!

[CapTVK]

Originally posted by rah


And how does it do that?

In the same way we deal with cheats, bugs, flaws and other imbalances. If enough people complain it will usually be patched at some point. (Although it helps if someone comes up with a patch himself )

For example, FC has the same problems with diplo attacks as Civ2MP has. With a bag of gold and a few shiploads of diplomats you could bring empires down to their knees in record time. Some said it's all in the game but many FC players didn't like it that diplomats were so powerful.
So in time several features and options were introduced to lower the power of diplomat. If you put several diplomats in a city an enemy diplomat will have a lower chance of success. Then we have diplchance an option in the civserver which sets the chance of succes for diplomats.

[rah]

Does that effect bribing of city attempts also? Since dips don't have any effect on that type of attempt.

[CapTVK]

Yes, diplchance comes into play with citybribing as well.

[DrSpike]

So what happens? Your dip arrives and if he fails he disappears/waits to be slaughtered? Then if he succeeds he gets the chance of paying to bribe?

Also, did you fix the rather silly algorithm for determining city bribe costs?

[CapTVK]

DrSprike,

As you describe it, but the bribe amount is stated upfront.

Fail, the diplomat simply dissappears but no gold lost. Succeed, a certain amount of gold is subtracted, the city is bribed and the diplomat dissappears.

Detailed information (the actual source with comments) about the diplomat and spy actions can be found here:

http://www.freeciv.org/lxr/source/server/diplomats.c#L422

Detailed Information (the source with comments) about the incite city costs can be found here:

http://www.freeciv.org/lxr/source/server/cityturn.c#L1256

This is the source for the incite city costs (quote seems to wrap the lines it's better readable at the direct link):

/************************************************** ************************
1251 Returns the cost to incite a city. This depends on the size of the city,
1252 the number of happy, unhappy and angry citizens, whether it is
1253 celebrating, how close it is to the capital, how many units it has and
1254 upkeeps, presence of courthouse and its buildings and wonders.
1255 ************************************************** ************************/
1256 int city_incite_cost(struct player *pplayer, struct city *pcity)
1257 {
1258 struct government *g = get_gov_pcity(pcity);
1259 struct city *capital;
1260 int dist, size, cost;
1261
1262 if (city_got_building(pcity, B_PALACE)) {
1263 return INCITE_IMPOSSIBLE_COST;
1264 }
1265
1266 /* Gold factor */
1267 cost = city_owner(pcity)->economic.gold + 1000;
1268
1269 unit_list_iterate(map_get_tile(pcity->x,pcity->y)->units, punit) {
1270 cost += unit_type(punit)->build_cost;
1271 } unit_list_iterate_end;
1272
1273 /* Buildings */
1274 built_impr_iterate(pcity, i) {
1275 if (!is_wonder(i)) {
1276 cost += improvement_value(i);
1277 } else {
1278 cost += improvement_value(i) * 2;
1279 }
1280 } built_impr_iterate_end;
1281
1282 /* Stability bonuses */
1283 if (g->index != game.government_when_anarchy) {
1284 if (!city_unhappy(pcity)) {
1285 cost *= 2;
1286 }
1287 if (city_celebrating(pcity)) {
1288 cost *= 2;
1289 }
1290 }
1291
1292 /* City is empty */
1293 if (unit_list_size(&map_get_tile(pcity->x,pcity->y)->units) == 0) {
1294 cost /= 2;
1295 }
1296
1297 /* Buy back is cheap, conquered cities are also cheap */
1298 if (pcity->owner != pcity->original) {
1299 if (pplayer->player_no == pcity->original) {
1300 cost /= 2; /* buy back: 50% price reduction */
1301 } else {
1302 cost = cost * 2 / 3; /* buy conquered: 33% price reduction */
1303 }
1304 }
1305
1306 /* Distance from capital */
1307 capital = find_palace(city_owner(pcity));
1308 if (capital) {
1309 int tmp = map_distance(capital->x, capital->y, pcity->x, pcity->y);
1310 dist = MIN(32, tmp);
1311 } else {
1312 /* No capital? Take max penalty! */
1313 dist = 32;
1314 }
1315 if (city_got_building(pcity, B_COURTHOUSE)) {
1316 dist /= 4;
1317 }
1318 if (g->fixed_corruption_distance != 0) {
1319 dist = MIN(g->fixed_corruption_distance, dist);
1320 }
1321
1322 size = MAX(1, pcity->size
1323 + pcity->ppl_happy[4]
1324 - pcity->ppl_unhappy[4]
1325 - pcity->ppl_angry[4] * 3);
1326 cost *= size;
1327 cost = cost / (dist + 3);
1328
1329 return cost;
1330 }
1331

[DrSpike]

Maybe I'll read it later.

You could have just said "yeah, we fixed it".

[CapTVK]

Originally posted by DrSpike

You could have just said "yeah, we fixed it".

I couldn't help it, the moment you mentioned 'algorithm' I had to do it. I couldn't stop.

As to your original question: "Yeah, we fixed it."

The bribe cost for a city are far more comprehensive apart from unhappiness and city size also taking into account wonders, units e.a. Small cities are still bribable but you have to open your wallet for the larger ones. And that's BEFORE we even take diplchance into account.

Seeing as the previous quote made a horrible mess of the lines and indentation. Here's a direct link to the Freeciv code that responsible for calculating the bribe cost. It's well commented and structured. Even with no coding experience you should be able to read and figure out the formula.

1250 *incitecity*

[CapTVK]

New Win 32 builds available : AI Diplomacy!

More news from the FC front : There's a new beta out for windows with : [b]AI-diplomacy[b/]! Get it while it's hot and please report any bugs or odd behaviour at the freeciv site.

Normal Win32 version
ftp://upload.freeciv.org/pub/freeciv...iv-1.14.99.exe

SDL version "the cool looking one" (shakey but playable)
ftp://upload.freeciv.org/pub/freeciv...1.14.99.exeexe

[CapTVK]

Daily CVS Win builds now available

Good news on the Freeciv windows front.

From now we can download daily CVS win32 builds. Just download, unzip, click on civclient and voila! Daily fresh playable builds. AI diplomacy works fine too!

http://www.freeciv.org/download.phtml

[CapTVK]

Now here´s another neat feature I´m waiting for: multiple veteran levels! From now on units can gain more battle experience in combat.

Just look at all those fancy medals!

http://www.leftist.net/perrin/Screenshot-2.png

http://www.leftist.net/perrin/Screenshot-3.png

[CapTVK]

Maps Schmaps a guide to maps in FC

Another update on recents development in FC. Not all things being development are apparent to the end user. Some of these changes actually present fundamental shifts in the system. This time I've dug a little deeper and look at some large changes in the mapping system. In short it means Freeciv will supports a large number of map formats: flat, wraparound, isometric (SMAC, Civ2, Civ3-style this is what will interest Civ2/3/SMAC fans), Torus e.a. We won't actually see much difference in the normal flat view. Apart from ships 'flipping' to other sides of the map if you reach/cross the poles. The benefits will become visible if someone whips up a real 3D map client.

 =========================================================================
-Different types of map topology
+Different types of topologies
 =========================================================================
 
+    Historically in FreeCiv the word Topologies was used for 2 different
+thinks, one is the way of the map is placed in memory and indexed; we call
+it Map Indexing (eventually Map Inedxing Topology)
+    The other is related to the way of tiles see the neighbor tiles and 
+paths over the map, this is related to the wrapping of edges; We call it
+Wrapping Topology (or Topology as in math).
+
+see Map Indexing, Wrapping, Wrapping Topology
+    and Cartographicals Projections later
+=========================================================================
+Map Indexing
+=========================================================================
 Originally Freeciv supports only a simple rectangular map.  For instance
 a 5x3 map would be conceptualized as
 
-  <- XXXXX ->
-  <- XXXXX ->
-  <- XXXXX ->
+  - XXXXX -
+  - XXXXX -
+  - XXXXX -
 
 and it looks just like that under "overhead" (non-isometric) view (the
-arrows represent an east-west wrapping).  But under an isometric-view
-client, the same map will look like
+minus represent an east-west simplest wrapping).  But under an 
+isometric-view client, the same map will look like
 
-     X
-    X X
+    \
+   \ X
+  \ X X
    X X X
     X X X
      X X X
-      X X
-       x
+      X X \
+       X \
+        \  
 
 where "north" is to the upper-right and "south" to the lower-left.  This
-makes for a mediocre interface.
+makes for a mediocre interface in this calssic wraping topology.
 
 An isometric-view client will behave better with an isometric map.  This is
 what Civ2, SMAC, Civ3, etc. all use.  A rectangular isometric map can be
 conceptualized as
 
-  <- X X X X X  ->
-  <-  X X X X X ->
-  <- X X X X X  ->
-  <-  X X X X X ->
+  - X X X X X  -
+  -  X X X X X -
+  - X X X X X  -
+  -  X X X X X -
 
 (north is up) and it will look just like that under an isometric-view client.
 Of course under an overhead-view client it will again turn out badly.
 
 Both types of maps can easily wrap in either direction: north-south or
-east-west.  Thus there are four types of wrapping: flat-earth, vertical
-cylinder, horizontal cylinder, and torus.  Traditionally Freeciv only wraps
-in the east-west direction.
+east-west. 
+
+see Wrapping, Wrapping Topology  and Cartographicals Projections later
 
 =========================================================================
 Different coordinate systems
@@ -575,6 +589,283 @@
 map_pos_to_native_x, and map_pos_to_native_y that are defined in map.h.
 
 =========================================================================
+Wrapping (neighbor topologie at edges)
+=========================================================================
+No Wrap Wrapping:
+================
+    The tiles at edge the tiles are no neighbor, this is a topological 
+singularity.
+
+sample map 6x4
+
+  ABCDEF
+  GHIJKL
+  MNOPQR
+  STUVWX
+
+the O tiles as 8 neighbor, the M only 5 and the S tile 3 neighbor. 
+  
+
+Simplest Wrapping:
+=================
+    The tiles at edge the tiles are as neighbor the tiles of 
+the oposites edges. The edges are wrapped 2 at some time.
+
+map 6x4, E-W simplest Wrapping and N and S non wrapping
+(cylinder topology)
+
+f-ABCDEF-a
+l-GHIJKL-g
+r-MNOPQR-m
+x-STUVWX-s
+
+the O tiles as 8  neighbor. The M too: 5 normal neighbor ( G, H, N, T, S)
+and 3 wrapped images ( x, r, l).
+The S tile 5 neighbor: 3 normal (M, N, T) and 2 wrapped images (x, r)
+ ( this is a topological singularity related to the no wrap wrapping)
+
+
+Offset Wrapping:
+===============
+this is a variation of simplest wrapping: which a wrap in the X direction
+is accompanied by a shift in the Y direction: 
+
+r-ABCDEF-m
+x-GHIJKL-s
+f-MNOPQR-a
+l-STUVWX-g
+
+The tile M as 8  neighors: 5 normal neighbor ( G, H, N, T, S)
+and 3 wrapped images ( l, f, x).
+The S tile 5 neighbor: 3 normal (M, N, T) and 2 wrapped images (l, f)
+ ( this is a topological singularity related to the no wrap wrapping)
+
+
+Reversed Wrapping:
+=================
+The tiles at edge the tiles are as neighbor one tiles of 
+the some edges turned 180°. The edges can wrapped 1 at time.
+
+this map i am a reversed wrapping at South edge.
+
+ABCDEF  The tile T as 8 neighors: 5 normal neighbor (S, M, N, O, U)
+GHIJKL  and 3 wrapped images ( v, w, x)
+MNOPQR
+STUVWX  The tile S as 5  neighors: 3 normal neighbor (M, N, T)
+||||||   and 3 wrapped images (w, x) ( this is a topological singularity
+xwvuts  related to the no wrap wrapping)
+rqponm
+
+But: The tile U as neighors in 8 direction but only 6 different: 5 normal
+neighbor (T, N, O, P, V) and and 3 wrapped images (u, v, w), Were u a image
+of itself and v a image of a normal neighbor
+(this is a new topological singularity) we call it a Central Singularity
+                                                     -------------------
+Rem: all images tiles are 180°
+
+this wrapping is complex but this is very intersting see Cartographicals
+Projections.
+
+see Wrapping Topologies and Cartographicals Projections
+
+=========================================================================
+Wrapping Topologies (Topologies make by choice of wrapping)
+=========================================================================
+combining wrapping edges we make different Topologie  where neighors of
+a tiles but path over the map ave different bevaiator
+
+Some this topology is related to a Cartographical projection!
+ (we can make a more or less nice map of Earth)
+List of Cartographicals topologies: 
+----------------------------------
+FLAT(only partial map), Cylinder(classic global maps), Conical (half Earth nice
+map), Quincuncial and Quincuncial_sq (nice gloabal maps)
+see  Cartographicals Projections and Poles
+
+FLAT*:
+=====
+no wrap wrapping
+
+all edges are singularities
+
+Cylinder*:
+=========
+
+simplest Wrap E-W, no wrap N and S or
+simplest Wrap N-S, no wrap E and W
+
+See simplest Wrapping doc and ascii art
+
+the first form is the classic topologie of Civilization (c)
+the second form is a 90° rotated image of the first form
+topologicaly (math) there are the somme.
+
+no-wrap edges are singularities
+
+see cylindrical projections
+
+TORUS:
+=====
+simplest wrap E-W and S-N
+
+x-stuvwx-s
+| |||||| |
+f-ABCDEF-a
+l-GHIJKL-g
+r-MNOPQR-m
+x-STUVWX-s
+| |||||| |
+f-abcdef-a
+
+This is one of more simplest topologies, no singularities
+
+
+Mobius Strip:
+============
+combining a offset wrapping over N-S edge and a simplest wraping
+over E-W edge.
+
+c-defabc-d
+| |||||| | 
+f-ABCDEF-a
+l-GHIJKL-g
+r-MNOPQR-m
+g-STUVWX-s
+| |||||| |
+u-vwxstu-v
+
+this is a interesting topology, no singularities
+
+CONICAL*:
+========
+one reversed wraping over the S edge, no wrap on N,E and W edge
+
+See the reversed wrapping doc and ascii art
+
+this topologie are not actually allowed, E and W use the some type of
+wraping and S and N too in actual freeciv.
+
+interesting to undestand the quincuncial topologie
+
+See the Conical projection doc
+
+QUINCUNCIAL*: 
+============
+simplest wrappin over E-W edge reversed Wrappin in S and N edges
+
+a-fedcba-f
+| |||||| | 
+f-ABCDEF-a
+l-GHIJKL-g
+r-MNOPQR-m
+g-STUVWX-s
+| |||||| |
+s-xwvuts-g
+
+in this topologie there are 4 central singularities in corners and in the
+midle of N and S edges
+
+best sphere like topologie if Xsize=2*Ysize
+See Pierce-Quincuncial Projection doc
+
+QUINCUNCIAL_SQ*:(the best)
+===============
+reversed wrapping on all edges
+
+x-fedcba-s
+| |||||| | 
+s-ABCDEF-x
+m-GHIJKL-r
+g-MNOPQR-l
+a-STUVWX-f
+| |||||| |
+f-xwvuts-a
+
+in this topologie there are 4 central singularities in midle of all edges
+
+completly simetric is the best way to map the Earth on a flat  square map
+best sphere like topologie if Xsize=Ysize
+See Pierce-Quincuncial Projection doc
+
+SPIN:
+====
+reversed wrapping on E, W edges
+
+s-ABCDEF-x
+m-GHIJKL-r
+g-MNOPQR-l
+a-STUVWX-f
+
+in this topologie there are 2 central singularities in midle of reversed
+wrapping edges
+
+=========================================================================
+Cartogrphicals Projections
+=========================================================================
+Cylindrical Projections
+=======================
+[url]http://www.mapleapps.com/categories/data_analysis_stats/maplemaps/html/cylinder1.html[/url]
+
+Conical Projection
+==================
+[url]http://www.mapleapps.com/categories/data_analysis_stats/maplemaps/html/images/maps/maps13.gif[/url]
+
+Pierce-Quincuncial Projection
+=============================
+[url]http://www.mapleapps.com/categories/data_analysis_stats/maplemaps/html/pierce1.html[/url]
+
+see this page too:
+------------------
+[url]http://www.mapleapps.com/categories/data_analysis_stats/maplemaps/html/distortion1.html[/url]
+
+=========================================================================
+Poles
+=========================================================================
+mapgen place poles this way
+
+/* ********************************************************************
+ * if clima_choice == 1 ( random choice! if -1)
+ *
+ * TOPO QUINCUNCIAL
+ *  2 half poles at North(the some)  and 2 half poles at South
+ * 
+ *     1     1
+ *
+ *     2     2
+ *
+ * TOPO QUINCUNCIAL_SQ
+ *  One Pole at center North and one at center South
+ * 
+ * if clima_choice != 1 
+ * TOPO QUINCUNCIAL
+ *  1 poles at center North and 1 poles at corners South
+ * TOPO QUINCUNCIAL_SQ
+ *  One Pole at center of map  and  pole one other in 4 corners
+ *
+ * others topologies not see clima_choice value
+ *
+ * TOPO FLAT
+ * one strip pole at north
+ *
+ * TOPO CLASSIC
+ * one strip pole at north and one other at south
+ * 
+ * TOPO Torus
+ *  One Pole at center of map and one other pole in 4 corners
+ *
+ * TOPO MOBIUS (1 pole ) or (2 poles)
+ * (1 pole) some strip poles at North   and  South ( not implemented )
+ *  2 half poles at North(the some)  and 2 half poles at South
+ * 
+ *     1     2
+ *
+ *     2     1
+ *
+ * TOPO ELECTRON (1 pole)
+ * strip pole at center of map
+ * **************************************************************/
+