Modified scenarios workshop

[McMonkey]

I have been wondering how many of us would be interested in setting up a thread for modified scenarios and a corosponding section for them on the SL Wiki. I know Fairline has converted several MGE scenarios to ToT and done graphics mods for them (EG Sengoku Jidai, Bonaparte, Aeterna Civitas). Gapetit has also given a large number of MGE scenarios a revamp with Fairline's and his own modified units. I often feel the need to do a complete overhaul of the graphics before I attempt to play a scenario and have some modified ones on my hard-drive and I expect others do too.

As well as the visual aspect there are often bugs in the gameplay that can be fairly easily fixed. Often the designers are no longer around to do such work but as AGRICOLA showed recently, with Bonaparte, the fixes are often quite easily done. I can think of a few scenarios that would benefit from some minor tweaking. I am sure that the designers would not mind this tinkering. In fact I'm fairly sure they would be happy that people were still enjoying their work enough to want to take the time to improve it, I know I would be!

Just an idea anyway. It could be interesting to pick one scenario at a time, have a discussion on what could be done, dig out and finish off any graphics mods and make any minor changes to the rules or events needed and then upload them to the SL Wiki to allow them a new lease of life. Undoubtedly this will lead to some creative differences as everyone has different tastes but I am sure we could come to some kind of consensus and everyone can then do their own private alterations to suit themselves (shiny white roads etc...)

Oh, and this most definitely would not include Red Front!

[Chris 62]

I like the idea, I too often change the units.

It might be nice if all the available units were better organized.

The current links to threads with them have pages of text with no units, and are sometimes 17 or more pages long!

Perhaps someone could organize them into pages of JUST units without all the posts so it would be easier to fix up old scenarios.

Here is an update of units I did for the WWI era second reich scenario:

[Chris 62]

When i say 'update' I just mean gathering the units, i got them from all over, I always forget who made what.

[techumseh]

Some work was done on this a few years ago. With the help of Fairline and David Woehr, we converted several top notch MGE scenarios to ToT with state of the art graphic upgrades. Some of them are on my site, here: http://www.tecumseh.150m.com/Convers...nversions.html

Since then, I've been working on a mod for ToT Original, with new rules and 3 distinct unit styles: German, British, and Russian. Dk Blue and Green civs have German units, Orange, Yellow, and Lt Blue have British units, and White and Purple civs have Russian. Barbarian units are in the British style.

I've made lots of changes to the rules, esp. units. Ancient units are revamped, with Phalanxes becoming the major offensive unit until Legions. Archers are now the basic defensive unit. Early 2 MP units are weaker offensively.

Medieval units are the same, but there are arquebusier units instead of Musketeers, which come later, with Leadership.

Only Explorer and Mountain units can enter mountain or glacier terrain. Air units are now broken into WWI (with Zeppelins), WWII and early jet types. Stealth is renamed Jet Propulsion.

Naval units have increased movement. There are no changes to the city improvements or wonders. Sometime this summer, I'll upload the mod to the SL site.

[McMonkey]

I like the idea, I too often change the units.

It might be nice if all the available units were better organized.

The current links to threads with them have pages of text with no units, and are sometimes 17 or more pages long!

Perhaps someone could organize them into pages of JUST units without all the posts so it would be easier to fix up old scenarios.

There is the Units section of the Scenario League Wiki:
http://sleague.apolyton.net/index.ph...ory:Civ2_Units

Most of the Test of Time compilations made by Fairline have been added. I am working on several massive MGE compilations divided by era and then sub divided by nations and wars. This will probably take a long time to sort properly but I have all the units in several massive bitmap images. I could upload them to the SL Wiki in zip files. They are far from perfect compilations but you should be able to find pretty much any unit you need.

My own idea of a good graphic modification is consistency. The vast majority of quality unit graphics are by Fairline or are mods of his units. Gapetit does a good job of using Fairline's original units and doing his own modifications of Fairline's units to fill the gaps. The final result is a unit set that all match.

I'm not sure what the current feelings are about signatures. I try to keep them where space allows but ofter there are so many signatures that there is no space left. I think the original artist and the last person to modify the unit should be enough. Anyone have a strong opinion about this?

[McMonkey]

I've been working on a mod for ToT Original.

That's funny. When I was having my morning shower (where I have a lot of my best ideas!) I was thinking about doing the same kind of thing for MGE, just for my own amusement. There are a few spare slots for extra units and I can think of some tweaks that would make the original game more challenging. I was also planning to redo the graphics and play on the European map I created.

I know a lot of these mods have been done over the years. Yesterday I was looking at the Fascist patch which uses some of the spare unit slots. I would like to make the early part of the game more interesting. Too often the ancient period is over before I have had any significant wars.

Your idea sounds like a more substantial improvement and the original ToT really needs a makeover, it is so ugly!!! Look forward to seeing this!

[civ2units]

I would devide the graphic section from the SL into TOT and MGE. The problem is, that MGE only use 256 colours and TOT graphics should be converted for using in a classic civ2 game. When there are two sections, the scenario designer immediatelly knows, where he can find his graphics.

Also we have many graphics (i.e. city, icons, terrain, etc...) in the scenario folders which are not available on a thread. Maybe we can sort them out and posting them on the SL.

[McMonkey]

Dividing the MGE and ToT Unit graphics makes sense and should be easy enough to do. I would like to upload more cities, terrains and icons but it will probably be some time before I can get round to it. Feel free to upload any good sets you think would be useful for designers.

[civ2units]

Great, I will have a look on my computer, what I have for graphics. I can upload them but I don´t really know, how to devide the graphics section.

[McMonkey]

Currently the resources section (http://sleague.apolyton.net/index.ph...:Civ2_Graphics) has the following sub-sections for graphics: Units, Cities, Icons, People, Terrain.

The units section is well stocked if not yet complete. The other sections need to be filled. I would just add stuff in any order for now. Once there is enough on there to work with it will be easy enough to shuffle it all around into a logical order. That's just a case of copy & pasting the text around.

I will do a quick tidy up now so you can just begin adding stuff when you can

EDIT: I just tried uploading the terrain 1 & 2 from Frederick the Great to get things started (renamed terrain1FTG/terrain2FTG) and realized the Bitmap format does not work well with the Wiki. I guess we will have to have a preview in a different format (PNG/GIF?) and include the Bitmaps in a Zip or rar file. What would be best?

[civ2units]

I would make a png preview and saving the the real graphics in a zip file like we have done with the units. This should be the best way.

I´m trying to upload something at the weekend.

[McMonkey]

Keep on chipping away at the stone. We'll get there eventually

[Elensar]

One thing that would be nice to have - both (?) with the mod techumseh mentioned and alone (at least alone) is someone converting the changes from the Fascism patch over to ToT.

Fundementalism makes no more sense there than in any Civ 2.

I'm not sure of what all needs to be adjusted to do it properly or I'd do it (and I'm not sure we have permission...do we need permission?)

[curtsibling]

I am sure there is a Fascism patch for ToT...

I'm going to check...

[gapetit]

McMonkey I think that you have a very good idea. There are a lot of very nice scenarios that with little changes are news scenarios... Yes mge is more limited that tot, in space and colours (256) but adapted it, that is fun too, the units and other graphics can lost quality, but not much...
I have modified a lot of graphics of tot and something old scenario, and the proved are very good.
Saludos,
Petit