The Bloody Monk HOF Celebration Succession Game!!!

[Bloody Monk]

What our Errant Archer says is true, though no less equivocal than my statement, substituting 'could' conceal for my 'probably'. The subtext for both of us is the same I bet...we need more opening of the map to be sure which it will be. (And until more is known a delay in placing a city is not a bad thing.)

A minor argument can be made that my 'probably' should have come before the 'a'. To which I call for forgiveness.

How about you, Stray; want to start us off??

Monk

If nobody picks this up I'll start tomorrow.

[Bloody Monk]

I'll get us started. Be back later with the save and log. Hopefully, then someone else can play this weekend.

Monk

[Bloody Monk]

General Considerations

Such a beautiful feeling looking over the beginning save of a new game!!
-- This will be a trade-centric game so cities sited on the coast are a must. Boats, boats, and more boats.
-- Cities should be able to support a Settler for roads, etc, AND have a surplus to build another for new cities. So, if there is a choice, build on grass.
--There is no rush choosing a city site to be the SSC. Having the SSC 5th or lower (7-10) on the list will yield more multiple advance turns later and, since the SSC usually completes the advance, the earlier cities can still add their beakers as they are processed this turn. No waste.
--Rush to Monarchy, then Trade, then build Marco Polo. Tech trading and maps give the biggest boost early. This leaves more time for finding the best site for the SSC. Ideally, the SSC will be on the coast so it can support the later-day Navy with its Shakespeare Theater.


4000bc -

...I put on my robe and wizard hat...and begin.
My wizard tools tell me there is another hut close by. Will it be on hills or trees?? Could the Nomad Beginning Gambit (NBG) be in play?? That is very tempting.

Tip hut hoping for a Horse, and we are joined by a Chariot. So far so good. (Can't point to anything other than past experience but it seems to me Horses are more likely (than Chariot or Elephant) to take the second step onto "difficult" terrain (trees, jungle, etc). Chariot moves NE and climbs hill in one go, revealing a Wheat Special. Second Sett moves N into river system.

3950bc -

Chariot reveals a second hut, and it is in trees!! Now to set up the (NBG). 1st Sett moves SW onto hill to discover if there is a special below the hut (or is hidden, per Straybow). It's a Whale and there is a grass tile. 2nd Sett explores river system.


This move is subject to intense RCC. I could have gambled on the Special being there, and not being a Fish and moved W onto the adjacent plain. Then the Gambit could have been tried two turns earlier. Plus, the first two cities would be closer together, more in keeping with a DaveV strat, ICS. I debated about doing it (going W) anyway. A two turn quicker start was tempting. But in the end, my mentat nature prevailed and I went with getting more information. Now that I know it's a Whale and that I can site on grass, I believe I made the right choice. But good, even strong arguments can be made for the other path.

3900bc -

Sett moves onto grass; Sett completes river exploration; Chariot reveals Silk as part of Wheat pattern.

3850bc -

River Sett becomes Madrid at (79,13). 2nd Sett becomes Seville at (73,17). Chariot tips hut and out pops a Nomad. The Gambit worked!! Move Nomad SW. There is probably a four special possibility by building at (83,19). Building the 3rd city to the SW, on the coast, is a better move now. Especially as it looks like it will be a Canal city and I can't resist. Later, if no other site turns up, the SSC can be built at (83,19). But that site will require a lot of tree clearing to max the pop. Again, a mentat requires data.

I debated about building Seville on the river (as in RL) because the encroaching Tundra may be a bad omen for suitable building sites to the North. But the second site is hill heavy. The Palace on the river will be able to grow more.

Select Alphabet as the first tech to research. Settings at 4-6-0 to max Science.

3750bc -

Squibs discover a magic called Alphabet. Get them going on knowledge to bury dead folk and whipping up a religion.

3700bc -

Build the 3rd city, Strabo'sFolly, a coastal city that is indeed a canal. As a canal city, obviously Straybow must be honored. If it turns out both sides are just inland-lakes then the folly part will be mine.
3650bc -

Seville builds Warrior for exploring and continues building another. Warrior finds Grapes in the hills beyond Seville. Chariot uncovers another Whale.

3600bc -

Madrid builds Warrior and switches to Settler. Chariot continues exploring. Rush build Warrior in StraboFolly.

3550bc -

Warrior in Strabo. Go exploring; switch to Settler. Ceremomial Burial --> Bronze.

3400bc -

Some partial rushing, more exploring. Seville gets 2nd Warrior and switches to Settler. Looking more like an inland sea. Another Canal may be in order.

3300bc -

Bronze Working --> Code. (69,21) looks like a possible canal site that will give blue water access.

3050bc -

There will be 3 new Settlers in a few turns. One sure bet, IMHO, is (69,21). Another possibility is (79,29) if it is grass. Good luck, everyone.

Monk

Who will be next??

[-Jrabbit]

I've been in a massive work phase and haven't even lit up my MGE yet on the old iMac. It'll be Wednesday or Thursday before I resurface, maybe later. Someone else should take the next set.

It's funny. Just reading The Bloody One's account reminds me of how long it's been. I fear I'll embarrass myself when I take the reins.

Excellent execution of the Judging only by the description, looks like a slightly slow start -- 3050 and not even studying Monarchy yet, despite the early 3rd city. 8 turns to bronze? Ouch, babe. Can't really engage in RCC without having seen the map (nor played in many month!), but I have to wonder if we're maximized on trade arrows.

Still, no disasters, no barbs, and we're on the path. And it appears we'll be hitting a heavy growth phase in the next turnset. That bodes well, especially with wine, silk and iirc another whale at our disposal. We must use our trade specials -- arrows for everyone! The rate of scientific study must improve. Growing phalanxes at home will let us send those all those warriors out exploring for huts and trade partners.

A nice start to build on.

[Bloody Monk]

_Jrabbit,

Never fear. I always push the arrows and max the Science, in the beginning. We started with zero free techs. And I mis-typed my notes. CerBur was learned in 3550 rather than 3700, so Bronze in 3300 would have been 5 turns. Code will come in about 2 more turns, so 7 turns total. Monarchy will take a bit more because our size two cities are all shrinking. Getting new cities out of those Setts should happen most rikki-tik.

I'm off to edit the log. Good catch, _Jr.

Someone want to be next??

Monk

[rjmatsleepers]

If there are no other volunteers, I'll give it a go. I presume we bee line to Monarchy, and no more huts until we've started researching it. Then on to currency and trade. Strabo's folly looks like a reasonable SSC unless someone has spotted a better location. We also need a few settlers to build irrigation and roads. It's a long time since I played Civ 2 - have I forgotten anything? I'll leave 24 hours for comments, then play and post.

RJM

[defrancoj]

I would like in. I do have the time and the MGE for it. Maybe not the chops that the rest of you have, but you can just refer to my turns as the "Dark Ages" that make history all the more interesting. If someone could refresh me on the procedures for succession games so I don't screw anything up....

In the mean time, I'll be following along.

[Verrucosus]

From my own experience, I would count this as a really fast start. On the other hand, I used to think that getting a third city this early was a matter of luck alone rather than luck combined with timing.

Regarding the next city sites:
- Would not be a city at 79,29 (or nearby) be a better science city than Strabo's Folly or would it be too far away from the capital?
- What's the plan for the settler about to leave Madrid? I'd probably send him towards explored territory in the southeast (85,19?), but maybe there is still a good spot somewhere in the north.
- Would you wait with cities #5 and #6 until we've become a Monarchy to avoid the additional unhappiness? I'd think that expanding quickly is more important, but extra rioters showing up in one of the new (ungarrisoned) cities can slow things down as well. Is there a way to predict which cities will be affected by additional unhappiness?

Anyway, best of luck!

[Verrucosus]

[Deleted old screenshot to keep thread readable.]

[Bloody Monk]

Specials, Hidden and Otherwise

We now have enough of the map exposed to see a hidden pattern. We have a 2-4-2 pattern with a hidden special at (86,20), completing the four, and two unknowns in the still dark area above. Given the others in the pattern, the hidden special might be another wheat or silk. Either way, that would make for a powerful SSC with, eventually, 4 Silks. The downside is no Harbor, and lots of tree chopping. As noted previously, that city would be at (83,19).

If another site is chosen, then cities at (86,18) and (86,24)--or there abouts-- will work those specials. If (83,19) is not chosen then we can get two cities working trade specials.

I would unfortify the Madrid warrior and send it exploring toward Seville this turn, before hitting Enter. With the Settler build the warrior will no longer be needed for martial law. I say this because a city between Madrid and Seville, if a site is there, would be preferable to walking the Sett way over to the East. We need a fourth city quickly. After the fourth and until Monarchy, a warrior should accompany the Settler to the site for immediate martial law.

Glad to see rjm step in. You have the game. Btw, we will need many cities and a large number of worker Settlers for roads, etc. For now, cities are more important. Finding another 4-leg from a hut would nice as well. My preferance is for the SSC to be further down the list but that's up to the person who starts building the relevant WOW.

defrancoj--
Welcome and step in after rjm if you want. Don't be shy. One caveat, questions are best asked before you play. It tends to limit the RCC afterwards. At this stage we are playing 20 turns. Copy the save into your MGE game, load and play. After 20 turns, write up your log describing what you did, and a bit on why if necessary, and attach the save at the end.

Monk

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by Verrucosus
From my own experience, I would count this as a really fast start. On the other hand, I used to think that getting a third city this early was a matter of luck alone rather than luck combined with timing.

I thought it was pretty swift, too!! But I would. Not luck so much as trusting the received wisdom. Check out samson's thread, approx. post 72. It is actually very reliable. I have used it many times in the past.

Regarding the next city sites:
- Would not be a city at 79,29 (or nearby) be a better science city than Strabo's Folly or would it be too far away from the capital?
- What's the plan for the settler about to leave Madrid? I'd probably send him towards explored territory in the southeast (85,19?), but maybe there is still a good spot somewhere in the north.

(79,29) would be a great site for a city, if it is grass. With 3 trees, a jungle and another unknown tile, it wouldn't be my choice. A fish and a bird/buff is not the best site for an SSC.

(85,19) is a good site. The North needs exploring. There is a site or two up there with something 'special'. But the greater present need is a sure thing city site. Exploring on the come with a valuable 'walking city' might not be best use. As noted, I would send out the warrior toward Seville hoping for a site that will support a Settler, and if nothing looks promising, then (85,19) or (86,18) looks good.

Other good sites for new cities are (69,21), (70,24). and (75,25) and (86,24). (85,27) is another canal site that would be useful if we need to trade to the East. (I am beginning to think we are alone on an island.)

Monk

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Bloody Monk
Specials, Hidden and Otherwise

We now have enough of the map exposed to see a hidden pattern. We have a 2-4-2 pattern with a hidden special at (86,20), completing the four, and two unknowns in the still dark area above. Given the others in the pattern, the hidden special might be another wheat or silk. Either way, that would make for a powerful SSC with, eventually, 4 Silks. The downside is no Harbor, and lots of tree chopping. As noted previously, that city would be at (83,19).

If another site is chosen, then cities at (86,18) and (86,24)--or there abouts-- will work those specials. If (83,19) is not chosen then we can get two cities working trade specials.

I would unfortify the Madrid warrior and send it exploring toward Seville this turn, before hitting Enter. With the Settler build the warrior will no longer be needed for martial law. I say this because a city between Madrid and Seville, if a site is there, would be preferable to walking the Sett way over to the East. We need a fourth city quickly. After the fourth and until Monarchy, a warrior should accompany the Settler to the site for immediate martial law.

Glad to see rjm step in. You have the game. Btw, we will need many cities and a large number of worker Settlers for roads, etc. For now, cities are more important. Finding another 4-leg from a hut would nice as well. My preferance is for the SSC to be further down the list but that's up to the person who starts building the relevant WOW.

defrancoj--
Welcome and step in after rjm if you want. Don't be shy. One caveat, questions are best asked before you play. It tends to limit the RCC afterwards. At this stage we are playing 20 turns. Copy the save into your MGE game, load and play. After 20 turns, write up your log describing what you did, and a bit on why if necessary, and attach the save at the end.

Monk

Someone will have to tell me / remind me how the co-ordinate system works. How do I find out where (83,19) is?

RJM

Found it! Once I fortify the warrior in Seville, the co-ordinates appear!

RJM

[Verrucosus]

You can use the "v" key to switch the cursor mode that gives the coordinates on and off.

Originally posted by Bloody Monk
(79,29) would be a great site for a city, if it is grass. With 3 trees, a jungle and another unknown tile, it wouldn't be my choice. A fish and a bird/buff is not the best site for an SSC.

Good points. I was tempted by the additional trade from the river squares, but the trade specials further north more than make up for that.

Well, it seems that the game is afoot once more. We will know more when rjm posts his log.

[DaveV]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
Growing phalanxes at home will let us send those all those warriors out exploring for huts and trade partners.

Phalanx? I remember building warriors for martial law and a few horsemen for barb hunting (a free chariot is very helpful in this regard). Why spend 20 shields for a unit that will be sitting in a city its whole life?

I've found my MGE CD and can play either before or after -Jrabbit.

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
Someone will have to tell me / remind me how the co-ordinate system works. How do I find out where (83,19) is?

RJM

Found it! Once I fortify the warrior in Seville, the co-ordinates appear!

RJM

This I do not understand. That action should not have made any difference. If you right-click on any tile the Loc: is given in the Grey Status Report area on the Right.

I hope this does not spring from the changes made in Scen mode.

Have fun!!

Monk