The Balkans Wars

[McMonkey]

Fair enough, I can see what your saying. I intend to be completely impartial. I can see what each nation had to gain and their motivations for going to war with the Ottomans. All the nations involved had ruled over most of the region at one or more points in the mists of time and all felt justified in what they were doing.

A friend came back from Turkey recently and told me about ghost towns in the mountains that were abandoned by the Greeks when they left Asia Minor. Cyprus is still not united and we all know the recent history of the Former Yugoslavia, Bosnia and Kossovo. This is certainly not something I take lightly!

As a Brit I certainly have no particular affiliation with any protagonist nation. For me this is no different to making a World War One or Two scenario, two more recent conflicts in which my own family lost a lot of members.
I suppose there are tensions in the Balkans that are still real in a way that maybe British and Germans no longer feel (the French are something different! , only kidding!)

It is a strange situation when you make a game about war for fun! But I think Civ is a good way to study and gain a deeper understanding of history through taking part. Sometimes reading a book can give you a level of comprehension, actually playing through a scenario can really help understand the key points of a conflict.

I also think it is important for people to remember parts of history that otherwise get overlooked, especially when they still have echoes today.

Sorry if this sounds a bit deep but you got me thinking!
I hope you enjoy the results

[Gagliaudo]

Agree with both of you.
THis will be a worthwhile scenario, a nice GAME

[McMonkey]

CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHICH UTILITY PROGRAM TO USE TO SWAP THE OWNERSHIP OF CITIES?

I probably have it already, I have downloaded so many utilities I cannot remember which one is which!

[GhostOfDisco]

CivCity. Not only can you swap ownership of cities, but you can also change who founded them.

[Palaiologos]

Have the scenario date start at 1897, the start of the "Unfortunate war of '97(Greece invading the ottoman empire)". Just design the tech tree and your events structure so as to achieve a non-linear Balkan conflict. The early 1900s after all saw the "Struggle for Macedonia" between native macedonian Greek, Bulgarian and Serbian guerrilla groups and an powerless to act Ottoman Empire. The various AI and human civs will form non-linear alliances and fight each other in a general historic context. Have it end at 1922 after the Great Graico-Turkish war of 1919-22. WWI will be represent by events and units or other bonuses awarded to each balkan civ, depending on what side, if any they take in the major european conflict.

Meant to tackle this particular historical period myself, but never found the time. Keep on!

[McMonkey]

I originally intended a scenario going from 1897 to 1923 but to be honest I think that to do justice to the history and make the game challenging I will need to be more focused. I do not think the events file for MGE would be big enough to cope with the war of 97, the struggle for Macedonia, the two Balkan Wars, WWI and the Turkish war of Independence.

What I am considering is a series, all based on the same map.
Game 1 - (MGE) First and Second Balkan Wars with slightly different versions for Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria.
Game 2 - (ToT) First and Second Balkan Wars plus WWI.
Game 3 - (MGE) Turkish War of Independence. I have great admiration for Kemal Ataturk, both as a military leader and a moderniser. His legacy kept Turkey out of WWII and is still very relevant today.

I do not know as much about the war or 97 and the guerrilla conflict in Macedonia though I am reading up about it at the moment.

I think focusing on the two Balkan Wars of 1912-13 will produce a more intense game. I will have to see how things go with regards to Games 2&3, to begin with getting Game 1 completed is the priority

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Werd100
CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHICH UTILITY PROGRAM TO USE TO SWAP THE OWNERSHIP OF CITIES?

I probably have it already, I have downloaded so many utilities I cannot remember which one is which!

why do You need any utility for that?

The scn designers got so comfy

and some so lazy

[Boco]

CivCity, IIRC. I believe it also allows you to change the founder, too, which has important ramifications on the AI.

If you haven't already seen them, you might be interested in these links on the Turkish Army:

• Turkey Prepares for War: 1913-1914 by Lt. Col. Edward J. Erickson

• LoveToKnow Classic Encyclopedia project based on the 1911 Edition of the Encyclopaedia Britannica: Turkey (search for "army")

• The Ottoman Conscription System In Theory And Practice, 1844-1918 by Erik-Jan Zürcher

Just remember that the Turks completely reorganized their army during 1913-4 to recover from the Balkan wars. Redif I's were no longer formed as independent units, but were instead integrated into regular infantry (i.e. the ex-Nizams).

[McMonkey]

@Heresson
Work smarter, not just harder

Lazy Got me there!

@Boco
Thanks for the links. I really like the battle maps on the Classic Encyclopedia link! If you find any others please pass them on.
You have inspired me this morning to gather all the web pages, maps, pictures etc into my main folder which should make the design process much easier. I will probably include them with the released game as they make for interesting reading / viewing

Going to try to use CivCity now. Expect me back in a bit asking how it works

[McMonkey]

And yes, I am back...already!

I put the cCivCity file into my Balkan Wars folder and tried to run it. I got the message:
File Error
Cannot find VBRUN300.DLL

In the read me it says:
Technical
This program was written with Microsoft Visual Basic Version 3.
It requires the Visual Basic run time module VBRUN300.DLL.
VBRUN300.DLL should be installed in the Windows\System directory or
in the same directory in which you install Civcity.

Where do I find / dl Microsoft Visual Basic Version 3?

Sorry to be a nuisance, I am a confirmed technophobe but I am trying to change! I read somewhere that if I don't understand something it must be bad Surely this cannot be the case.

EDIT: I did try looking for it on Google but got horribly lost and ended up bying a time-share in the Costa del Sol!

[AGRICOLA]

Found it in my Windows Downloads folder. Had to zip it: can't upload .dll file.

[Gagliaudo]

Originally posted by Werd100
I originally intended a scenario going from 1897 to 1923 but to be honest I think that to do justice to the history and make the game challenging I will need to be more focused.

What I am considering is a series, all based on the same map.
Game 1 - (MGE) First and Second Balkan Wars with slightly different versions for Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria.
Game 2 - (ToT) First and Second Balkan Wars plus WWI.
Game 3 - (MGE) Turkish War of Independence. I have great admiration for Kemal Ataturk, both as a military leader and a moderniser. His legacy kept Turkey out of WWII and is still very relevant today.

Btw, there was a scenario about Ataturk (made by a Turk guy, IIRC), maybe it could interest...
I found it at CivFan... :

http://www.civfanatics.net/downloads/civ2/scenarios/Ataturk3.zip

[McMonkey]

Wow! What a fantastic utility. Will save me many fours of frustration + make this game, plus some of my previous efforts, much better

I never believe that I can get technical things to work so thanks for the help guys!

Now I can return Crete to the Greeks and give the AI an incentive to retake the key cities.

@Gagliaudo
I do remember downloading that game a long time ago but I am not sure if I ever played it. I will have to dig out the files to see if there is anything I can pinch

@Heresson
I took your advice and found some new cities. They are pinched from Jamestout. I have also borrowed some of Techumseh's forrest terrain and Icons. I am pleased with the results so far

[Varwnos]

When will it be complete?

Everything looks very nice

[McMonkey]

Ah, deadlines

I gave myself a deadline for Aeterna Civitas which made me work much harder to get it finished. The only trouble with putting a time limit on it is the risk of ending up with egg on my face if I fail!

Oh, heck. I would say about one month. My second child is due on 16th August so I would like to be finished before then

All I really need to do is create the events, a fairly simple tech tree (linear with some tricks stolen from Tech if I can work them out ) and a fair bit of testing + polish.

Today I worked out the dispositions of the armies and I am trying to relate them to civ units to get a good balance. I will try and place them tomorrow night and start on the events.

Wish me luck!