The Vietnam War development thread

[Patine]

Allies who are barred from negotiating will not break their alliance. This of course means who must do money transfers through events, however.

[McMonkey]

Thats excellent, I did not realise that stoping them speaking would force them to stay allied. I suppose it makes sense really.
If this is the case then the Koreans, US and South Vietnamese will stay allied and at war with the Communists. This means I can scrap the idea of giving the ARVN money. I'm glad as it would be fiddly and take up events space.
Nice one mate

[McMonkey]

Help!

I am just trying to get used to using ToT. I need to know a few things. Why is there a main folder and one called Original (I have added Tech's patch)? It seems that the computer reads the graphics from the original folder.

I am having troubles with the graphics. By trial and error I worked out where the computer read the units, terrain and other graphics from (Original folder) but I cannot get it to read the city screen graphics. It shows them in the MGE format with a black background (see screenshot below). It also does that in the saved game I am playing of Warlords. When I started Warlords it was fine and used the red background city screen. What am I doing wrong, I'm getting really fed up with it now!!!

Help.

[AGRICOLA]

I can't figure out why our versions of TOT are definitely different.

The city screen buttons you have look like brown thatch whereas mine look like grey pitted leather, the outside frames of the city window are different etc etc.

What folder is your game in?

[AGRICOLA]

There may be a problem with your CITY.GIF file in the main TOT folder. That is the only place this file is found in the installed TOT. It is not present in any of the sub-folders such as Original, Sci-Fi etc.

This is what mine looks like [half size].

[McMonkey]

The reason the city screen looks different is that it is a replacement on from Tech's Warlords of China scenario. I guess I may have gone wrong here somewhere. The city template you have posted is present in the main folder. The whole thing seems to defy logic? I may reinstall the game from scratch and start again!
Any other ideas please let me know.

[McMonkey]

OK, I reinstalled the game and deleted / archived the unneeded files more methodically and I seem to have solved my little problem. I'm still not sure what I was doing wrong though

I have come up with another couple of queries.
1. What is the difference between Original and Extended Original and which one is best for designing this type of scenario?

2. Before when I was changing graphics and reloading games ToT was crashing. It did not sound like this was normal. What is the easyest way of creating a ToT scenario? Would you make a saved game in a Vietnam folder or save it as a scenario each time? I was so at ease with MGE and then ToT comes along and ruins me?

[Patine]

1. Use Original. Extended Original has two maps, as it carries the game past discovering AC and into colonizing it, while still carrying on on Earth.

2. I don't know what makes it crash, but save it in it's own folder within the ToT folder, and only save your work as a .scn twice; when first starting, and when finished. Otherwise, save your progress as a .sav.

[Von Bert]

Hi Werd100 ( and all the others )
i think i ll play gladly your scenario..
just last night i tryied "1966june", an old one on Vietnam..
and apart to work on it a bit to make some graphic more pretty to my eye.. i found there were some/many un-historical things. (but the scenario itself is somehow challenging )
can i send in some ideas ?

- In that scenario NVA used Stinger missile from start.. i think would be better if NVA begins game with AA-machineguns.. THEN they can research some TECH to improve it to SAM-AA-missile.

- 1st Air cav: would be nice to have some elite-american troopers going around on helicopters..

- 2 scenario version ? i think is the way it should be done to make it playable.. then with some batch file you'll make the player choose wich game to play.. and copy the appropriate events/units files.

- NVA : should not have Armor unit from the start..(as in that scen. happen)

- NATIONAL support: simulate the battle between peace oriented people in USA.. and those wanting war ? how ? i dunno..
Maybe using a out of map-town(in a small corner) simulating ALL U.S.A. ? maybe this town can be "another" nation.. out of player control.. then:
- everytime an american is killed you create some mob/pacifist unit near the USA-town.. on the reverse will create near it some police/national guard unit if/when some NVA-VC town is conquered..
- when/if the "USA-town" will starve.. reducing to ZERO .. or conquered..the NVA qould win a political VICTORY... forcin USA to withdraw from war.
I dunno if it can work.. the idea is to use that city JUST as a victory control Area.. NOT to create units.
various events can then influence the PUBLIC opinion...

- USSR-CHINA: support from them can be gained as tech-research for NVA ?

- TERRORIST: some units of NVA can have same graphics of some CIVILIAN ( and NO colour showing ) .. american then must decide IF Attack it.. with a MALUS if will come out were just civilians.. (My Lai massacre.. was not the only one.. )

WERD100.. keep on your great job !
see u .. in the jungle.. :P
and wishing to help.. if i can..

[McMonkey]

Thanks Patine
I did not know about the second map for AC as I have never plated ToT all the way through. In fact there is a LOT about ToT I don't know.

Another easy question. I was looking at the Sea Kings thread and impassable terrain was mentioned as was units that could cross it. I did notice something about this in the rules file but have not had time to test it yet. I guess you can change a setting that makes mountains (or whatever) impassable to normal ground units unless they have the flat to allow them to do so.

If this is possible it may make my borders idea for the game a bit simpler. At the moment I intend to use neutral border posts ang give the communists Ignore ZOC ability.

If someone could explain this feature to me I would be grateful!

[McMonkey]

Von Bert
Thanks for the support mate, your ideas are just what I am looking for, I have a few unconventional ideas of my own and your creativity is inspiring new ones.

- My game will be in two seperate versions. One for the US and the other for the Communists. Both will use the same map and graphics, but everything else will be different. Both versions will have seperate tech-trees!
I shy away from batch files as I have not worked them out yet and want to keep this already complicated scenario as simple as possible!

- I intend to give the VC/NVA AA Guns (AA Machinegun graphics would be cool). Later they would be given defensive SAM missile sites, Mobile AA?, short range Mig fighters and short range offensive SAM missiles to protect their bases in Laos and Cambodia.
I do not really want NVA fighters taking off from Villages in the south until late on in the game so these types of units will be through events only until late on.
In the Communist version I will add these units into the tech-tree.
Thanks for getting me thinking on this subject!

- Air Cav will be essential to the game and I will dedicate a seperate post to this special unit!

- Early in the game the NVA will have no armour. Later on they will be given some PT-76 and T-55s through events and finally they will be given the techs to produce them (1973 ish). BTW does anyone have a good PT-76 unit graphic?

- National Support
I love this idea I will certainly be considering how to make it workable. My idea to score the game at the moment is based on holding allied ARVN cities and the 'Body ount' where US units killed = minus lots of points and dead VC = minus a few points! Anything to add to the objective of the game is of interest to me.
This idea makes so much sense as the US did not lose the war militarily but it lost it politically and morally!

- USSR / China
I will use this idea in some of the events and in the tech tree of the Communist version!

- Terrorists
I love this idea too. At first I could not see a way of making it work. You can make identical units and hide their nationalities but a clever player will check who they belong to and will not destroy an allied unit anyway as a warning message pops up!
While I was eating my dinner I had a brainwave and rushed to find a pencil, I think the wife is filing for a divorce! My solution would be to create an identical graphic for Peasant (settlers) of both the South and Communist Vietnamese, the VC terrorist (Spy) and a new unit called a Southern Civilian (or such like) that would be spawned all over the map and would wander round doing not too much. The US player would have to check out all these units and try and destroy the VC. The Communists of course would slaughter lots of the Southern Civilians which could add to the scoring (?) so protecting them would be an objective of the US,
I'm not finished with this idea yet but think it has potential to spice up the game! Thanks VB!

One problem I will have is keeping the NVA bases in Cambodia and Laos hidden. I suppose I could black out the map and only reveal the South Vietnamese bits to the player but this is a pain in the ass to do. One idea would be to have only one main VC capitol out of US aircraft range in Cambodia or Laos and then create a special static VC settler unit where I want them to place their cities. Then I have to hope they decide to build a city These new cities should not show up on the US map as they are not on the starting (revealed) map and they will be out of range of US bombers. Later on roving special forces could discover them but it would craete a sense of mystery about the NVA. I could also try the same thing for the VC in the south.
Don't know if it will work though?

Keep the ideas coming as the map is nearing completion and I can't wait to start building the game now!!!

[McMonkey]

Just thought. Each Southern Civilian killed could trigger event that creates a VC unit!?!

[McMonkey]

AND a Protestor (Invincible Neutral Unit) back in the World. Eventually the US would not be able to build new units as the maximum number would be reached (?) and they would have to bribe some of the protestors (make them expensive!) and disband them to make room. This would mean the US may need to rely on Aircraft and technology (from tree) over brute force and infantry holding ground. This would also help represent Vietnamization with US airpower backing the South. It would also stop the US simply building a wall (McNamara line type thing) to cut the NVA/VC trails over the border.
On the downside this idea would be very hard to balance without extensive playtesting and if the maximum number of units was reached it is possible that the Communists production would be forced to halt while the clever player could carry on producing units through bribery.
What do you guys think? Is it possible?

[Cyrion]

Originally posted by Werd100
Another easy question. I was looking at the Sea Kings thread and Inpassable Terrain was mentioned as was units that could cross it. I did notice something about this in the rules file but have not had time to test it yet. I guess you can change a setting that makes mountains (or whatever) inpassable to normal ground units unless they have the flat to allow them to do so.

It's exactly how it works!

And about your idea on "an identical graphic for Peasant (settlers) of both the South and Communist Vietnamese, the VC terrorist (Spy) and a new unit called a Southern Civilian ":

- I like your idea but...
- creating lots of southern civilian might well drive you mad, as they'll probably wander along endlessly, blocking your roads and so on...

[AGRICOLA]

Eventually the US would not be able to build new units as the maximum number would be reached (?) and they would have to bribe some of the protestors (make them expensive!) and disband them to make room.

Straightforward bribing and disbanding won't work. You disband during your turn, thereby freeing up unit slots. There is nothing to prevent any of the other civs from completing units during their turns so there are no slots left when your turn come around again.

However, there are a number of ways around 'Too Many Units', bloody house rules that units cannot be disbanded as well as non-disbandable units, while still having slots free when it is your turn.

Communists production would be forced to halt while the clever player could carry on producing units . . . .

You betcha.

- creating lots of southern civilian might well drive you mad, as they'll probably wander along endlessly, blocking your roads and so on...

I greatly prefer three strong, evil enemies to one %@!?/& ally.