My Next Project: A Poll

[typhoon]

Brit, winter

[typhoon]

Australian, winter

[typhoon]

South Korean, winter

[typhoon]

Source is a German website (Uniformen und Kampfanzuege) which appears to be dead.

[fairline]

Thanks mate, nice pics I can feel a drawing session coming on

I never came across that site. Did they have other periods?

[curtsibling]

Heh!

I actually have the book those images are reprinted from...

But I guess fairline and several others have it too!

[typhoon]

Yes, they do have other periods, many, in fact, covering virtually every war from 1948 to 2000. And as Curt mentioned, they appear to have been scanned from somewhere. Here is an example page. (Its the only one I have, unfortunately)

[Case]

Originally posted by typhoon
Commonwealth infantry were basically uniformed and equipped identically to the British, bar minor variations in headgear (Brits and Canadians wore berets, Aussies slouch hats) and winter battledress.

According to Gordon Rottman's excellent reference book 'Korean War Order of Battle' the Canadian forces in Korea used US crew served weapons in the place of comparable British weapons. For example, the Canadians used 81mm mortars instead of the British 3 inch mortar. I can't remember if the Canadians used British or American personal weapons though.

All of the 'UN Battalions' were organised on the standard US Army infantry battalion table of organisation and used exactly the same weapons as US infantry battalions. I'm not sure about whether there were national variations in uniform or whether these contingents also wore standard US Army uniforms and personal equipment.

[Patine]

I think Canadian infantry used US firearms from 1911 till we developed our own piece (the C-7, a highly-modified M-16) in the early '90's. I believe that includes the Korean War. This is according to my cousin, who's a Captain in the Canadian Forces. These pictures are great, typhoon! I do think a swap between summer and winter would be a good idea. Anyone know how long winter tends to last in Korea, and between what months? I thought I'd represent certain units dying from harsh conditions by lowering their defense in winter months. I'm currently working on modifying the map; that's the stage I'm at. Thanks for all this contribution; greatly appreciated!

[tanelorn]

About US and UN forces:
US forces involved in the Korean war included the 1st,4th,2nd,7th infantry,1st cavalry, 3rd(Incl. 65th inf. regimemt -Puerto Rico National Guard) 24th, 25th (incl. the black 24th regimment), 28th (Pennsylvania NG), 29th (Maryland/Virginia NG), 43th (RhodeIsl./Connecticut NG) 45th (Oklahoma NG) infantry divisions, the 1st and 2nd marine divisions as well as the 187, 504 & 505 parachute regiments
The 24th, 25th & 7th infantry and 1st cavalry division were rushed in from Japan (Far East Command), understrength & illequiped shortly after the onset of hostlities. The 5th Marine regiment came in shortly afterwards.
21st infantry regiment @ 24th inf. division ("task force smith"?) were sent in first as but got wiped out by the North Koreans at Osan, south of Seoul.
Mac Arthur Kept the marines back for the Inch'on landing.

UN Forces included, roughly:
27th & 28th Commonwealth(Australian?) and 25th Canadian infantry brigades as well as the 8th Hussars armor(UK) (the Centurions above)
A Turkish Brigade (1st?)
10th & 20th Philipino, 21st & 22nd Thai, French, Greek (plus some C47s), Dutch, Belgian, Ethiopian,Pakistani,Brazilian, Cuban (pre-Castro), Colombian, Chilean and Peruvian infantry battalions, one each, in order of deployment.
I can get deployment dates and initial order of battle, if you wish.

US aircraft also included the b26 medium bomber (the WWII A26 invader) and the F84 E/G fighter/bomber that replaced the F80

How do you plan to trigger the Chinese intervension?

-Random event?
-November 1950 event?
-Researched tech for the North Korean player?
-Crossing the Yalu (how?)
-ROK or US capturing NK cities close to the Chinese border?

[our_man]

I think Chinese intervention should be triggered by crossing the Yalu - place trigger units along the bank of the river and if a player attempts to enter the river hex it'll be destroyed, triggering Chinese intervention.

In this way it'll be up to the player to decide whether he wants to risk antagonizing the Chinese by going after more territory. In this way you could choose to be a less... ideologically committed general than MacArthur.

On the other hand, you could just go nuts, cross the Yalu, A-bomb China's cities, stage an amphibious assault from Taiwan with Chiang-Kai-Shek's Kuomintang and liberate the North Pole from the Communists by 1952.

[fairline]

Originally posted by Patine
I think Canadian infantry used US firearms from 1911 till we developed our own piece....

No they didn't. The standard Commonwealth rifle was the Lee-Enfield .303, used by Brits, Aussies Cannucks and Indians alike. The Bren was the standard squad light MG and the Sten the section leaders SMG, although the Aussies used the home-grown Owen gun. During the Korean War the Canadians progressively adopted US dress and arms, with the Canadian version of the British BD being replaced by US M43 dress, although I don't think this conversion was ever completely uniform and a Canadian at the end of the war might wear a mixture of Canadian BD, British field combat uniform and US M43.

Similarly, Australians started out wearing their standard service dress (similar in appearance to WW1 Brit service dress), which was replaced by the Aussie version of Brit BD, which inturn was either replaced or complemented by US M43 and winter clothing.

[fairline]

Originally posted by tanelorn
27th & 28th Commonwealth(Australian?) and 25th Canadian infantry brigades as well as the 8th Hussars armor(UK) (the Centurions above)

Minor corrections to Tim's Commonwealth OOB:

The 27th British Brigade was first in theatre, which comprised two Brit inf Bns joined by 3rd Bn Royal Australian Regt, and later 2nd PPCLI (Canadians) when IIRC it was redesignated 28th Commonwealth Bde.

29th British Bde Gp was next on the scene (3 Brit inf Bns, 8th KRIH (Centurions), and a squadron of 7th RTR.

Finally the 25th Canadian Infantry Bde Gp arrived (3 Canadian inf Bns + 3 squadrons of Lord Strathcona's Horse.)

At this point the 1st Commonwealth Division was formed, comprising 28th Commonwealth Bde, 29th (British) Bde Gp and 25th (Canadian) Bde Gp. The constituant battalions in each were rotated on a fairly regular basis.

[Patine]

.

I think Canadian infantry used US firearms from 1911 till we developed our own piece....

Allow me to correct that statement. The regular military (the RCA) used British rifles up until the mid 50's as you said; the RCMP and border patrol (who then technically fell under military jurisdiction) found it cheaper to just buy US rifles across the border. If you check old black-and-white photos of Mounties, they use Winchesters. But yes, you are right now that I check, the Army proper used British guns

[Case]

Originally posted by tanelorn
the 1st and 2nd marine divisions as well as the 187, 504 & 505 parachute regiments

I don't believe that the 2nd Marine Division or 504 and 505 Parachute regiments were deployed to Korea. I think that these units may have been alerted, however, for a possible deployment as part of the planned major offensive in 1953 (which never went ahead due to progress with the peace talks rendering futher UN offensives pointless).

Mac Arthur Kept the marines back for the Inch'on landing.

I think that the 1st Marine Division saw action before Inchon during the fighting around the Pusan Pocket.

28th Commonwealth(Australian?)

While the 28th Commonwealth Bde was under Australia command for most of its time in Korea and eventually two of its three infantry battalions were Australian, it was not an Australian formation as almost all of its support units were British or New Zealand (I think that the 16th NZ Field Artillery Regiment [equipped with 25 pounders] formed part of this brigade).