Global Warming help

[thegreatbuddha]

I really hate building an empire, only to have global warming kick in in the late 1800s and destroy my farmland. BY this point, i'm past the early-game city-building kick so I'm out of engineers, and hunger usually decmiates my cities.

I have 2 questions.

1. Is there anyway to avoid global warming in game (such as not causing pollution, etc)?

2. Barring 1, is there anyway to turn off the global warming via a settings file or through a mod?

TIA

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

1. Yes. Solar Plants. Automobile and Plastics seem to boost my pollution count dramatically - you may want to delay those techs as long as possible, unless you have the Engineers on hand for cleanup, or the inclination to build lots of Solar Plants (or in the earlier part of the game, Mass Transits/Recycling Centres).

And how do you wind up with no Engineers at the end of the game? I normally have about 100 in the late game

2. Yes, but I don't know it. Hopefully some scenario guru will stop by with the goods on the required edit.

[Elephant]

Starlifter wrote a pretty good analysis of the causes and solutions to pollution - check the Great Library for a link to his thread. Global Warming happens when too much pollution sticks around for too long. You get too much pollution from two things: polluting cities and nuclear fallout. Do some research on the ways to decrease your city pollution, and plan on having some Engineers in the mid to late game devoted to cleaning up the skulls before they accumulate. I too am puzzled by why you aren't continuing to build Engineers. They are not just for city-founding; they improve your terrain so your cities produce more food, improve your transportation net so your units can move faster to attack and defend, and they should accompany attack forces to rebuild roads and create beachhead cities, fortresses and airbases.

On the level of changing settings, when you are creating scenarios you can specify no pollution effects at all. Realize though that scenarios work different from regular games, particularly in the area of tech hiding during selection. I don't think you can negate pollution effects in regular random games.

[rjmatsleepers]

Pollution comes from different sources. Building a public transport system (Mass Transit) will reduce pollution from population size a great deal. Also, if possible, use solar or hydro plants for energy.

In my experience, with a small empire (eight cities) two engineers are enough to cope with pollution. But you will need a good railway system to move them about. Perhaps there is a rule of thumb - one engineer for every four cities. They will be engaged full time on cleaning up pollution, so you will need additional engineers if you're still building infrastructure.

If you are exchanging nukes with the AI, well placed SDI buildings will help. But you will still need engineers to clear up the mess.

RJM at Sleeper's

[thegreatbuddha]

Eh, how exactly does one get engineers to clean up pollution?

Insofar as I know, there are 5 commands available to engineers:
i - irrigates terrain
r- builds road/railroad
m- build a mine
o- transform terrain
f? - builds a fortress in a noncity square ( i never use this one)

Is it simply a matter of transforming the terrain, or is it a separate command?

NOTE: I lack an instruction manual, because I DLed the game for free as abandonware. AFAIK, Civ2 is public domain. If I'm wrong, correct me so I can buy a legitimate copy. Except for the pollution, this is easily the most addictive game I've ever played....

[Scouse Gits]

the command 'p' sets an engineer or settler cleaning pollution.

Welcome to the Civ2 adicts

Technically Civ is not yet abandonware, but it is getting very close.

Cheers, Stu

[thegreatbuddha]

Thank you sir.

I now have a reason to keep engineers around in the late game.

Of course, I've only played up to the 3rd difficulty setting so far, so things may change once I'm confident enough to try for Deity.

And thank you also for the heads up about the abandonware. I have no qualms about paying $30-$50 for this game, let alone $.01 (On a side note, what's with the MAC version of Civ 2 Gold being $129.99?)

And also, Hello to all who frequent this board.

I've been playing Civ2 for all of a week now, so I'll apologize in advance for any "stupid" questions I happen to ask.

[Elephant]

No apologies necessary - but do check Amazon and eBay for a legit copy. Sometimes EBGames, Staples, Target etc have it on their "discount" shelf. Versions differ, with most people preferring the MultiPlayer Gold Edition, but the last version made was called Test of Time. The AI is a bit harder to negotiate with in later versions.

Both Apolyton and CivFanatics should have PDF versions of the Civ2 Manual. It's not a bad read, but a lot of the game mechanics details are left out or poorly described. A good place to start is the Great Library here in the Strategy forum. We haven't had many new players in a while, so we'll all be on best behavior and answer any question you have - often by pointing out a multi-year-old thread that exhaustively covers the topic...

[Bloody Monk]

Re: Global Warming help

Originally posted by thegreatbuddha
I really hate building an empire, only to have global warming kick in in the late 1800s and destroy my farmland. BY this point, i'm past the early-game city-building kick so I'm out of engineers, and hunger usually decmiates my cities.

I have 2 questions.

1. Is there anyway to avoid global warming in game (such as not causing pollution, etc)?

2. Barring 1, is there anyway to turn off the global warming via a settings file or through a mod?

TIA

Welcome to the community, thegreatbuddha. I will reveal a few tricks to you even though I know it will probably sink the Civ2 hook deeper and thereby, greatly inhibit RL (Real Life ). jk

First some general comments and then some old research notes on the causes of pollution...

1) If I remember correctly, there is a grayed out "p" command that becomes avtive if you are on an AI developed tile--where you get the option to pillage, or when your engineer rests on a "skull"--where you get the opton to clear pollution.

2) I'm going to assume you are not dealing with Nuke effects as you specify late 1800's. The AI should not be allowed to progress that far and you really do not need to use them.

3) As others have mentioned, you are badly underestimating the value of Engineers. Apart from their usual activities, irrigation, roads, and rails, there are always great city sites to be exploited. More importantly (nod to Elephant), no late-game invasion force should be sent without combat engineers. Building a port city means your troop transports can disembark from within a city, thus saving movement points.

Monk

[thegreatbuddha]

Thanks for the help all.

Now that I know about the "p" command, I was able to land on AC in 1914 with 0 pollution squares.

I was playing on warlord, and finished with a score of 49% ( I think, my title was Fork Beard).

That marks the first time I beat the game officially. Mostly, I get bogged down in the late game and have to finish via conquest well after the year 2000.

[Bloody Monk]

Pollution Factors

Part 2
Years ago I asked a similar question. The discussion is buried w/in one of the old Succesion Games, but I can't remember which one. The consensus was to not worry about the total number of yellow warnings in your cities, but rather that you should have multiple Engineers on hand to deal with the skulls as they pop up. If you have a road on the "skull" tile then two unworked engineers will get there and clear the "skull" that turn. If a nearby Engineer was previously working another tile--and you immediately, at the start of the turn, click on it and send it to the "skull" tile--it will clear the "skull" by itself. The "charge" it built up doing the other task goes with it to the new tile and gets used to clear the pollution in one turn without help from another Engineer.

I did some checking and found that advice to be really good. I recall that the yellow triangles in your city screens are cumulative across your empire and that after 10, there is a 50% chance of getting a "skull" in one of your cities (it's random). But getting an unwanted, preventable effect was not appealing, so I checked out the various causes.

In general (sans Nukes) pollution comes from three sources, production shields and city population, plus the effects of research advances, Automobile and Mass Production. There is also an observable but unvarifed effect in a city based on the ratio of shields to trade arrows. In other words, more mines means more chance of pollution (for the same number of shields and the same population level), especially where there are few trade specials being worked.

What follows is based on a large sprawling empire with a Super-size city and many mid-size cities (8-15). The object is to have many cities with at least ten shields before factories. These results are rule of thumb.

A. SHIELDS Factory and Hoover Dam
1) Pollution- starts at 18 shields generally
2) Factory increases shields 50%, so before the Dam, don't build Factory with shields greater than 11. (12 + 6 = 18)
3) The Dam increases shields where there is a Factory
a. by an additional 50%, or to +100% of the base number
b. eliminates pollution up to 29-33 shields (depending on population, number of mines, and possibly mitigated by a high number of trade arrows or ocean tiles.
c. The hinge point is approximately Population 11 and 33 shields for the first Yellow Triangle.

(some preliminary results for the first Yellow Triangle)
Pop 12, 3 mines--33 shields
Pop 15, 2 mines--34 shields
Pop 19, 1 mine-- 33 shields
Pop 20, 2 mines--32 shields
Pop 21, 3 mines--30 shields

B. POPULATION EFFECTS (Seems to start at Pop greater than 16.) (Assumes you have Hoover Dam)
1) Eventually the next Pop increase will cause Pollution requiring the Mass Transit Improvement, generally at city=15 with a Factory. After the Mass Production discovery, Triangles can appear at city pop = 12, where shields are greater than 24.
2) A great Gov't at this time is Fundy making the Statue a priority. No support for units plus the cash cow effects of happiness improvements will give the cash needed to rush buy Mass Transit in the bigger cities.
3) Learn the sequence of Research Advances (GL) so you can plan to research Automobile and Mass Poduction sequencially. Have many freights on hand for quick delivery to reduce the research time for Mass P. after Auto.
4) Discovery of Auto and Mass P, each, greatly increase existing number of Yellow Triangles. To keep the level of pollution down, have much cash on hand...and have the cities that will need Mass Transit prebuilding an improvement so you can switch to Superhighway with Auto, then rush Mass T. when you finish Mass P. (Do Not Forget to build Superhighways)
5) Mass Transit (w/ the Dam) eliminates Triangles up to 41 shields. You can get pollution again with 42 shields even in size 11 cities.

C. RECYCLING CENTERS (RC)
-- Clears pollution to 61 shields (w/ Dam & Mass T)

D. OFFSHORE PLATFORM (OP)
--Adds a shield for every Ocean tile, double w/ Factory and Dam.

E. SOLAR PLANTS (SolPlt)
--Eliminates All Pollution (Remember to sell off RC after you build SolPlt. No point paying maint for both.

F. MANUFACTURING PLANT (MP)
--adds the same number of shields as a Factory (50% of base shields including OP Ocean shields)
-- If you don't have a good number of OP shields, this is a very expensive Improvement and may not make sense, adding only 6-10 shields. Why bother if you are rolling in cash and will rush buy after one turn anyway??
--If you want to avoid Yellow Triangles you may need to build RC and/or SolPlt before either OP or MP.

***********
Hope you find this useful. One of the joys of this game is actually building a Civilization and thinking about, and dealing with, some of the consequences of your decisions, like pollution. You have years of fun ahead of you!!

Monk

[rjmatsleepers]

Monk, what a lengthy and thoughtful analysis of pollution. I hope it indicates that things are currently a bit brighter for you.

You didn't mention hydro plants. Am I wrong in thinking these have less pollution than other power (except solar)? Perhaps it was because you are talking about building Hoover in a large sprawling empire. I must admit that I rarely build Hoover - mainly because I rarely build factories in more than one or two cities and I tend to have a relatively compact empire. I am usually rushing vans in my small cities, so I don't need many shields. This may be why I find two engineers enough to keep pollution under control.

RJM at Sleeper's

[Bloody Monk]

@thegreatbuddha

Congratulations on a 1914 landing. The usual suggestion is to move up to King for a few games while you read and study the Great Library, then move up to Deity. Deity is alot harder, especially the Happiness problems. But in the long run, assuming there is a long run, Deity is where you will be playing.

I noted your comment that you had zero pollution squares. Pretty quick learning curve.

@rjm (aka: gramps)

Thanks. I was inspired by our newcomer's question and wanted to help. I had done the research years ago, so it was a matter of typing it. I used the crib sheet (that I referred to often when I was playing) as a guide.

A reminder...

What follows is based on a large sprawling empire with a Super-size city and many mid-size cities (8-15). The object is to have many cities with at least ten shields before factories. These results are rule of thumb.

So...yes, an SSC and 7small cities wouldn't need the Dam; and Hydro Plants are a better build if they are available. (I have a vague memory that a city has to have a river to be offered the Hydro build. Is that correct??)

I agree that rushing vans is the way to go. Think on this: if your one turn build before the rush generates 20 shields, then the cost is much more affordable. At a time in the game where spy/dip is the cheapest unit, this is a consideration.

This is an example of the many variations in tactics/strategy that this game allows. One City, Early Landing, Early Conquest, High Score (don't go there!!), Small Empire, Huge Empire, Big Cities/ICS, and the best I think is the Gits Strat--do what you get the most fun from.

Monk

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

@Monk - I believe you need a river tile or a mountain/hill tile in the city radius in order to build a hydro plant.

I seldom if ever build these - Hoover is my preferred method. But then, I usually have big empires...
/me shrugs

@rjm - Hydro plants produce no pollution, the same with Nuke Plants. Power Plants will add pollution; how much, I don't know. Nuke Plants have the unfortunate side effect of melting down (kaboom) when the city goes into disorder, so I never build them.

/me has fond memories of playing the WW79 scenario on Deity as the Soviets and accidentally setting luxuries too low, and watching 20+ cities blow up. And then the Americans attacked with nukes. This should really go in the stupid Civ tricks thread, if I could find it.


@tgb - beware, this game is addictive.

[Bloody Monk]

Hydro Plant Availability

Wow!! Haven't done this in a long time....

Called up an old early game save; open cheat mode; gave Electronics and Industrialization Advances; gave 20000g for buying white goods; gave various cities Factories; started testing.

Hydro Plant is only a choice in a city where the city square touches a river.

Not Available if...
-River in the radius but not touching the city
-hill or mountain has no effect.
-ocean does not count as a river


Therefore, If a Hydro Plant is part of your plan...

Build cities on or beside a river.

Monk