The Green (peace??) free-for-all succession game

[Sharkbait]

Recap at the end of 10 turns (360 AD):
5 new cities (now 24 in total)
7 settlers, 4 in production. 2 on ships near island #23, 1 at north pole (NONE), 2 on Running Bear island, 2 on Big Mound island)
24 warriors
3 phalanx, 5 in production (for no good reason – please change if desired)
1 archer in prod
3 legion, 2 in prod
1 catapult in prod
6 triremes (1 on sentry north of Snake Canyon)
16 dips, 7 in prod

Gold: 66 (oooh!). Want this to bribe Great River.
Population 1,210,000
Income 13, cost 2, net 11
Discoveries every 13 turns. 1 or 2 turns from Astro I think.
Russians have the Wheel
Americans have Bridge Building, Literacy, Republic (some others have some of these too)
Egyptians have Philosophy and are researching Horseback, so they need to be watched - Mike's might be on the cunning AI's agenda.

+160 (0): Change warrior prodn in LBH to Dip. IRB trireme in Cedar Creek. Change Kildeer settler prodn to Dip (Stony Lake & Wounded Knee will make setts next turn so not enough ships for more) . No beakers yet in F6 screen so assume we’ll get to choose next turn. Would like Astro for Copes in LBH.

+180 (1): Americans nearly built Great Wall! Don’t think we’ll be able to steal it from them. Three Forks has only 193 shields and only 3 or 4 dips handy. Select Astronomy ahead of Bridge Building, Literacy & Wheel (AI has them all I think).
Disorder Silver Moon – Elvis. Settler due next turn. Disorder Dead Buffalo – Elvis. Wood Lake & Kildeer make Dips. Strong Lake & Wounded Knee settlers, change to Dip production. Slim Buttes Dip. Cedar Creek makes Trireme, change to Dip prodn.
Change Three Forks production from GW to Oracle as can’t make it before Yankees. I’ve moved Dips on that island into forest so there are no tiles for the barbs to land but still within reach of 3Forks. Change First Wind prodn from Dip to archer.

200(2): Washington builds Great Wall. At least they’re pretty well hemmed in by the Carths and don’t have more than 3 or 4 cities.
Running Bear makes legion, starts Dip to bribe back Great River down the line. Raging Brook build legion, starts Library as it can use Spice and Wheat (another Xin city? Need to sort out corruption first). Exploring continues.
Diplomacy: - Meet Carths, give Construction, get peace (Snake Canyon & First Wind pretty exposed). Only Neutral so did nothing more.
Ditto Americans, give Construction for peace. Neutral.
Egyptians – I don’t swap Republic for Seafaring, don’t give demanded Seafaring, no war, swap maps. Still cordial.
Russians – give Trade for cease-fire, Code of Laws for peace but they want war with Japanese as well so just cease-fire.
French – I offer Monarchy for Republic, they refuse. End.
Japanese – want war v Russians, No. End
IRB Dip in LBH.

220(3): Silver Moon – settlers. Elvis fired. LBH Dip, starts Oracle. CHIEF’s CRAG founded on coast north of Running Bear. Buy 6 shields towards Dip in Running Bear. Change Dead Buffalo from making archer to Dip and PRB it. Exploring goes on.

240(4): Barbs capture French city of Avignon. Russians & Japanese sign peace treaty (shame). Carths get Republic from Americans, and Ams get Iron Working in return. French get IW from GL. Carths & Ams peace.
Disorder Running Bear & Wood Lake – Elvis all round. Big Mound settlers, start legion. Dead Buffalo makes Dip – starts settler.
I’m leaving trireme on sentry north of Snake Canyon to act as a blocker for the narrow gap there. Change First wind to making settler now that there is peace with Carth. More barbs have landed north of Running Bear (only 3 legions and leader)

260(5): 2 triremes with 4 settlers go east from near Stony Lake & find land (island #23). MORNING ROCK founded northeast of Big Mound. Trireme with Dip finds another island to NW Yellowtree island. PRB bit of Dip in Running Bear.

280(6): French develop Monarchy, Egyptians develop Seafaring, and the Frenchies get it from the GL. Carths start Oracle. Maybe we can get that in Three Forks – might be good down the way.
Disorder Wounded Knee – Elvis. Dip lands on island #26 (87,59).
I’m not spending at present since I want to build up a little cash to bribe barbs and Great River with.

300(7): Snake Canyon makes phalanx, start settler. Trireme has moved to NW to try and block bottleneck. 2 settlers on island #23, 2 still on ships. Have found a few fish and a wheat on island. Dip finds wine on island 26 (but no settlers nearby yet). NAPLES founded NW of Point of Rocks. Still no spending.

320(8): French now a republic. Americans discover Bridge Building. Running Bear makes Dip, starts temple. Point of Rocks, Bear Paw disorder – Elvis. Legion N of Chief’s Crag kills barb legion-vet. Dip heading north to bribe city and any barbs. Settlers on ships land on island 23 further west.

340(9): Hut on N pole = NONE nomad! ISSUS founded on island 23 near wheat. Legion kills another barb (other one and the leader are north of Great River) Dip still on the way there.

350(10): Disorder First Wind, Silver Moon – Elvis. Sadly my plan of having the trireme stopping a Russian elephant getting past the bottleneck didn’t work. Activate Dip in Snake Canyon – bit of bribing might be in order, but I recall that the Russian nomad on the South Pole a while ago was v pricey, so this might not work.
CUNAXA founded on island 23. Hut spotted on the island too, 2 settlers back on ships. Diplomacy not yet done this turn.

We can build the Oracle in Three Forks in the next turn if so desired. Not many temples yet but maybe that can be the next push on some of the islands. LBH not producing many shields due to semi-Xinning – still 7 turns worth of food remains there. Another thought is that since Astro is almost discovered we could leave the Oracle production going on without using the dips, try and get Feudalism next and then switch to Sun Tzu.

I’ve got that trireme on sentry north of Snake Canyon, but this maybe should be replaced by a legion fortified on the mountain at (98,36). Could then move the ship west to 84,38 to fully block the other neck. Canal cities would be cool at both spots plus also105,37 (oasis).

I realise now that ships don't work for ZOC blocking - doh.

And the save:

[Sharkbait]

I was just thinking about bribing units.

If we bribe say an elephant, is it cruel to disband it i.e. murder it and dig its tusks out and turn them into snuff boxes and chop sticks? Should we therefore let it roam free eating tree leaves, or maybe give it a home in a nice city where it can wander the streets as it pleases (aka cows in Hindu cities)?

In other words, should we use them purely in passive defence capacities, rather than disband? Or disallow bribing of these units? Or is bribing and freeing them from their slavery a nobler cause than just letting them suffer under their evil masters?

Although I guess disbanding could be seen as setting them free and letting them do their own thing rather than having them end up in the cooking pot...

It isn't easy being green.... (with apologies to Kermit)

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Although I haven't had a chance to download the save yet, it looks like the game is coming along ok, after the hiccup that was my turns

re: disbanding - I intepret that as setting the animals free. Naturally, disbanding has to be done in the field!

When do we start bonking heads?

[Sharkbait]

I'm thinking Sun Tzu, vet ironclads (& Magellan) and gunpowder might be a nice combo.

9 techs to get to this, but the Russians have the Wheel already so a steal could be in order (cease fire currently). Literacy also available. Maybe we can get the AI heading up other paths while we pursue these.

Re Mikes Chapel, Americans are studying Philosphy, so we could trade soon and then get Mono.

[Sharkbait]

Any takers for the next set of turns?

[Old n Slow]

I have the save -- should look at it tonight or tomorrow.

[Old n Slow]

Rather soft, slow and gentle...even by my standards. (Well, maybe I'm usually slower)

1 -- 380 Discover Astro, opt for Feud (note that it will take 13 turns at this rate to get the tech...yech!)

2 -- 400 Found Dull Knife (yes I looked up some old Indian names from an old map for my new cities) Buy great river, get a Legion for 52 in wampum. Pop a hut in the way, way North & get Nomads (on grass??) Also discover that a couple of cities are building infrastructure -- so we switch to dips (aka fake camels for wonders / proto infantry for future wars) also switch a number of citizens to water for the extra arrow.

3 -- 420 Found Milk Creek

4 -- 440 Found Blue Water

5 -- 460 (Russ discovers Eng -- hmmm a potential target of opportunity.) Found Plum Creek Pop a hut for 25 wampum

6 -- 480 Some cities blow up from time to time; others start to We Love... Lil big has to drop the Xin for food. Another hut in the far, far north yields a Nomad. Decide to ship a couple back home, rather than founding anything so far away.

7 -- 500 Found Bad Axe. Russia forces a conversation, and after we choose not to hand over Astro, they sneak up and gore our hapless dip with a bully elephant (oh no! only 25 dips left -- good thing we have 20 in the pipeline!)

8 -- 520 (Amerks and French now have Phil) Smack the Barb Legion/leader near Great River (Yeah, the legion smacked our defending legion, but was left too hale for our comfort level -- no sense in seeing the city razed.)

9 -- 540 Hut = AT = Wolf Creek

10 -- 560 (Ha, ha -- the dip sneaking Elephant dies making our mountain defending legion a vet.) Discover Feud -- cash in a few dips & Sun Tsu is ours next turn. Another Legion smacks a Russian Cat & becomes a (wounded) vet.
-----------

Now that the Russians have prompted action, maybe a few boats, dips & Legions (soon to be vets & new vets, of course) could go visit.

Hmmm -- Eng from the Ruskies, get the French with Republic & by then their research of Banking, followed by Invention, Democracy & soft fundy?

[Scouse Gits]

Nice turnset - and the definite makingz of a plan -- nice one OnS

[Addled Platypus]

could not play, patched to 1.52 ?

[Old n Slow]

The version I played was 2.40, which is usually transparent to 2.42. I can't speak for how downward compatable either would be to a 1.52 version.

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

1.52 is the latest patch for Civ4 if I recall correctly.

Try Civ2, or scroll up several fora.

[Sharkbait]

Nice set of turns. And like the Indian city names. I should have changed some of the ones I founded.

In fact is it OK to change names in a succession game later (like net turnset) or is that just too confusing. reckon at this early stage, and given that we're not doing much other than producing Dips, we could change Issus and Naples and any other without being too much of a problem.

I like the sound of crushing the Russians - they always seem to be spoiling for a fight and it would be good if the Tree Huggers granted their wishes soon.

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by Sharkbait
Nice set of turns. And like the Indian city names. I should have changed some of the ones I founded.

In fact is it OK to change names in a succession game later (like net turnset) or is that just too confusing. reckon at this early stage, and given that we're not doing much other than producing Dips, we could change Issus and Naples and any other without being too much of a problem.

I like the sound of crushing the Russians - they always seem to be spoiling for a fight and it would be good if the Tree Huggers granted their wishes soon.

I think I outraged everyone in a succession game about 4 years ago - we were heading for a spaceship victory and I, then ignorant of succession etiquette, changed governments, overran half the AI cities, and also changed our innocuous city names to bloodthirsty ones. That last point was not well received!!

Seriously - if you want to rename a couple of cities, that's probably fine, although it gets confusing when done often.

I think it's high time we started crushing someone...

[Sharkbait]

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man



I think I outraged everyone in a succession game about 4 years ago - we were heading for a spaceship victory and I, then ignorant of succession etiquette, changed governments, overran half the AI cities, and also changed our innocuous city names to bloodthirsty ones. That last point was not well received!!

Seriously - if you want to rename a couple of cities, that's probably fine, although it gets confusing when done often.

I think it's high time we started crushing someone...

LOL - actually, are we going for space, or win by any means?

I mean, blood and bone is a very good fertiliser for our beautiful huggable trees....

Not to mention solving eco problems caused by over-population!

[StuporMan]

I think either means of victory will be acceptable. I personally vote for bloodlust, cause it seems to fit better in the environmental theme. Dead people do no harm to the environment, while investing in a space program will result in bucketloads of pollution and natural resources.

StuporMan