The Desert War - Preview and development thread

[Eivind IV]

Here's my current set of untis. As you can see there's a lot of open units space. There also a great deal of units I'm unsure whether to use or not. I reckon my scenario will span from march 1941 to late 1942 sometime, with events taking care of reinforcements (There will be no production of units).

Any ideas on more units and when they should be introduced? Fairline? Case?

[curtsibling]

Definitely some character units or special command vehicle would be cool!

[Broken_Erika]

if you need more info on tanks, go here,

http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/

i am about to make some new italian armor too,

[fairline]

For the Brits/commonwealth you could use the following:

An early cruiser for the Arm'd Divs (I have a Mk IV graphic used in Dictator ToT) and Matilda for the Tank Bdes for the first part of the scenario. If you were to start the scenario earlier then LTVI and A9/A10 would be appropriate.

A Crusader I and Stuart I arriving in time for Op Crusader (Nov 41), with a Valentine for the Tank Bdes at about the same time.

A Grant in time for the Gazala Battles (May 42).

A Sherman II and Crusader III for El Alamein (Oct 42).

Priest SP in time for Alamein.

It might be cool to have special 7th Armd units which respawn after being defeated.

LRDG and SAS would add some colour (they were mounted in Ford and Chrysler vans with Lewis and Vickers guns).

NZ, Australian, Indian and SA troops are a must, given their contribution in the campaign. BTW, Aussies (and the rest for that matter) were dressed exactly the same as the Brits. Poles, FF and Greeks were much less important to the campaign (also dressed in standard British KD and tin hat BTW).

Perhaps an early recce unit (Morris C9B or Marmon-Herrington) and a later one (Daimler or Humber).

A divisional command unit to capture (armoured Matador truck) given that you intend the Afrika Korps to be the playable civ. Rommel and Monty units as well, taking Curt's special leader units theme?

2-pdt AT and 6-pdr in time for Alamein. 25-pdr for arty.

P-40 fighter, Hurri IIC/D for ground attack; Blenheim as early bomber and Maryland/B-25 etc later.

[Case]

Originally posted by Eivind IV
Any ideas on more units and when they should be introduced? Fairline? Case?

As Fairline notes, the SAS or LRDG should be included (as they had similar roles and capabilities I'd only pick one - probably the SAS as it had a more offensive role and is easier to model in Civ). The Commonwealth should also have a M3 Grant tank, some heavy artillery (5.5 Inch guns?) and definetly the M4 Sherman (remove the question mark!).

Are you sure that German motorcycle recon troops are worth including? Given the terrain, I suspect that they weren't very significant in North Africa.

[Boco]

Are you advising about the unit or the icon that portrays it? German recce units have an important role in most of the NA war games that I've played. I'd agree that a early 8-wheeler or a kubelwagon would be a more representative choice.

[Eivind IV]

Originally posted by fairline
For the Brits/commonwealth you could use the following:

Cheers, Gareth! This input is priceless!


@Motorsycle-Recon:
According to the OOB I've been reading the Germans had many companies and battalions of motorsycles for recon. It's a non fighting unit anyway, so it shouldn't matter if it is a kübelwagen or a motorsycle.

@Commonwealth troops:
You think I should seperate between Aussies and N. Zealandies? If so, in which divisions and brigades to put them?

Also where could I add the S. Africans?

After some changes and tweaks, here's the units. Still need tips for units!

Like the idea of a regeneratable 7th armd div btw, gareth!

[fairline]

Eivind, the only Polish forces in the Middle East was the Carpathian Independant Rifle Bde (they fought at Tobruk and the Gazala Battles). By contrast there were two entire divisions of South Africans (1st and 2nd) that fought in the campaign - I'd replace the Poles with SA troops.

[fairline]

Originally posted by Boco
Are you advising about the unit or the icon that portrays it? German recce units have an important role in most of the NA war games that I've played. I'd agree that a early 8-wheeler or a kubelwagon would be a more representative choice.

The 4-wheel Sdkfz 222 was the most commonplace recce unit equipment at this time

[fairline]

Originally posted by Eivind IV
@Commonwealth troops:
You think I should seperate between Aussies and N. Zealandies? If so, in which divisions and brigades to put them?

Definitely - the 2nd NZ Division was one of the elite formations of the campaign. The Australian OOB in theatre was originally 6th, 7th and 9th Divisions, all sent to Egypt in 1940. Of these, 6th Div fought in Greece and Crete, 7th Div took part in the invasion of Syria and Lebanon, while the 9th and part of 7th Div defended Tobruk for a time. All but 9th Division were withdrawn to the Pacific and far East when Japan declared War; 9th Division played an important role on the Northern seaward flank at Alamein.

The 2nd NZ division comprised 4th, 5th and 6th NZ Brigades, together with divisional arty, recce regiment, AT Regt etc.

The 9th Australian Div comprised 25th, 26th and 27th Aus Bdes together with the usual 3 field arty regiments (Bn strength), divisional cavalry regiment (recce armd car bn), AT Regiment (Bn strength) etc.

[Eivind IV]

I'd much rather have both the Poles and th SA. I have room for them both. I've also added NZ to the unit list

When did the 2nd NZ division arrive in North Africa then? And what about the South Africans? I'm a bit tied down by not having the arsenal of books I understand you have so it's a bit hard for me to know all these details. And I have yet to find a decent internet site that can tell me whenever the theatre (both axis & allies) was reinforced, by whom and with what...So I really apreciate all the help!

[fairline]

2nd NZ Division was formed in Egypt in 1940. They fought in Crete and the survivors were evacuated back to N. Africa. Elements were first involved in the fighting in the Western Desert on the withdrawal to Matruh in Sep '40. After returning from Crete and reformaing they were involved in the Operation Crusader battles and were in action fairly consistently through the rest of the campaign all the way to Tunisia. They played an important role in the northern sector at El Alamein, and the pursuit to Tunisia thereafter.

The 1st SA division was in theatre in May 41 after fighting in Abyssinia. They were in action until Alamein.

The 2nd SA division arrived in Egypt in June 41 and fought in the final defence of Tobruk where they were captured in the defeat there.

[Boco]

Fairline do you have a complete list, or should I go digging into my closet for wargames?

[Eivind IV]

I think I might have it all covered now, but thanks anyway!

[Eivind IV]

Ok, here's what my research has told me. Feel free to comment and correct or add anything to this list. I havn't looked up every single regiment here like I've done on my placement OOB, so the translations into civ2 units are only temporary "translations".

EVENTS FOR ALLIES:
---------------------
JUNE 1941:

1ST (SOUTH AFRICAN) DIVISION:

1st South African Infantry Brigade:
- 3 SA inf's
- 1 AT
- 1 arty

2nd South African Infantry Brigade:
- 4 SA inf's
- 1 arty

3nd South African Infantry Brigade:
- 3 SA inf's
- 1 arty

5nd South African Infantry Brigade:
- 3 SA inf's
- 1 arty

---------------------

2ND (SOUTH AFRICAN) DIVISION:

3rd (South African) Infantry Brigade
- 3 SA inf's
- 1 AT
- 1 arty

4th (South African) Infantry Brigade
- 3 SA inf's
- 1 arty

6th (South African) Infantry Brigade
- 3 SA inf's
- 1 arty

---------------------

69th Infantry Brigade:
- 3 brit inf's
- 1 arty

150th Infantry Brigade:
- 3 brit inf's
- 1 arty

151th Infantry Brigade:
- 3 brit inf's
- 1 arty

---------------------

JULY 1941 (Operation Brevity):

21st Australian Brigade:
- 3 aus inf's
- 1 arty

25th Australian Brigade:
- 3 aus inf's
- 1 arty

---------------------

5th Indian Infantry Brigade:
- 3 ind inf's
- 1 arty

7th Indian Infantry Brigade:
- 3 ind inf's
- 1 arty

11th Indian Infantry Brigade:
- 3 ind inf's
- 1 arty

---------------------

5th South African Infantry Brigade:
- 3 SA inf's
- 1 arty

---------------------

2nd Armour Brigade:
- 3 Crusaders

7th Motor Brigade:
- 3 brit inf's

---------------------

AUGUST 1941:

1st Free French Infantry Brigade:
- 3 free french inf's
- 1 arty

---------------------

SEPTEMBER 1941:

132nd Infantry Brigade:
- 3 brit inf's
- 1 arty

133rd Infantry Brigade:
- 3 brit inf's
- 1 arty

131nd Infantry Brigade:
- 3 brit inf's
- 1 arty

---------------------

NOVEMBER 1941:

No. 231 Wing RAF (Wellington)
No. 236 Wing RAF (Wellington)
No. 238 Wing RAF (Wellington)
No. 242 Wing RAF (Wellington)
No. 245 Wing RAF (Wellington)
No. 205 Liberator (Transporter)

---------------------

FEBRUARY 1942:

No. 239 Wing RAF (Hawker Hurricane)
No. 244 Wing RAF (Hawker Hurricane)

---------------------

150th Infantry Brigade:
- 3 brit inf's
- 1 arty

151st Infantry Brigade:
- 3 brit inf's
- 1 arty

---------------------

APRIL 1942:

New brigade fort he 7th armoured division:

7th Motor Brigade:
- 3 brit inf's
- 1 arty

---------------------

JULY 1942:

No. 283 Wing RAF (Hawker Hurricane)
No. 216 Group - Transport Squadrons - Avro 685 York

---------------------

AUGUST 1942:

152nd Infantry Brigade:
- 3 brit inf's
- 1 arty

153rd Brigade Infantry Brigade:
- 3 brit inf's
- 1 arty

154th Brigade Infatry Brigade:
- 3 brit inf's
- 1 arty

---------------------

OCTOBER 1942:

1 (Guards) Infantry Bde:
- 3 guards
- 1 arty

11 Infantry Bde:
- 3 guards
- 1 arty

36 Infantry Bde:
- 3 guards
- 1 arty

---------------------

6th Armoured Brigade:
- 3 tanks (?)

38th (Irish) Brigade:
- 3 (Irish?) inf's
- 1 arty

1st (Guards) Infantry Brigade:
- 3 Guards
- 1 arty

-----------------------------------------------------------

EVENTS FOR GERMANS:
---------------------------

JULY 1941:

200. Infanterie-Regiment (mot.):
- 2 Machinengewehr
- 1 inf's
- 1 arty
- 1 motorsycle

361. Infanterie-Regiment (mot.):
- 3 inf's
- 1 arty
- 1 motorsycle

---------------------------

JULY 1941:

- Kampfgescwader 54 (Heinkel 111)

---------------------------

SEPTEMBER 1941:

- Kampfgescwader 100 (Heinkel 111)

---------------------------

FEBRUARY 1942:

- 2 new Pz IVG - upgraded

---------------------------

MAY 1942:

433. Infanterie-Regiment (mot.):
- 3 Machinengewehr
- 1 arty
- 1 motorsycle

382. Infanterie-Regiment (mot.):
- 3 inf's
- 1 arty
- 1 motorsycle

125. Infanterie-Regiment (mot.):
- 3 inf's
- 1 arty
- 1 motorsycle

---------------------------

JULY 1942:

8. Panzerregiment disbanded. 5. Panzer Regiment upgraded:
- 2 new PZIVG

- 4 Para battalions in August 1942:
"Ramcke's Fallschirmjager Brigade arrive in North Africa from Crete as a reinforcement for Rommel."

---------------------------

OCTOBER 1942:

Panzergrenadier-Regiment 'Afrika':
- 9 Mech inf

-----------------------------------------------------------

EVENTS FOR ITALY:
---------------------------

APRIL 1941:

61 Rgt. Fanteria (Trento):
- 3 inf's
- 1 arty

62 Rgt. Fanteria (Trento):
- 3 inf's
- 1 arty

---------------------------

MAY 1942

186 Rgt. Fanteria (Fologore)
- 3 paratroopers

187 Rgt. Fanteria (Fologore)
- 3 paratroopers

---------------------------

JULY 1942:

33 Rgt. Carri (Littorio):
- 3 CV-33 (L3)

133 Rgt. Carri (Littorio):
- 2 M.13/40

12 Rgt. Bersaglieri (Littorio):
- 3 Bersaglieri inf

---------------------------

SEPTEMBER 1942:

125 Rgt. Fanteria (La Spezia):
- 3 Paratroopers

126 Rgt. Fanteria (La Spezia):
- 3 Paratroopers

91 Rgt. Fanteria (Pistona):
- 3 inf's
- 1 arty

29 Rgt. Fanteria (Pistona):
- 3 inf's
- 1 atry

---------------------------

OCTOBER 1942

35 Rgt. Fanteria (Pistoa)
- 3 inf's
- 1 arty

36 Rgt. Fanteria (Pistoa)
- 3 inf's
- 1 arty