OCC 2005 Game 2

[solo]

I have continued my game up to 1000 BC, so will post the log.

With the gold gifts from my early MPE and AI alliances, I was able to rush a few city improvements and continue on to Monarchy. This city site will also provide 10 shields if another citizen is added, so I work an irrigated grass tile long enough until size 4 is attained.

1950 library
1900 marketplace
1800 temple, now it’s time to start building caravans
1600 size 4, now each special holds a citizen
1550 Monarchy

Greeks – trade for Masonry & Map Making, 25g
Zulus – trade for Mysticism, give tech, share maps, 25g

I trade for a few key techs, but I am going to keep science maxed out since I want Republic quickly, so I can give it to the AI to speed their research.

1500 dye, revolution
1450 government to Monarchy

Persians – give tech, share maps
Vikings – give tech, 25g

1400 hides, we love begins in monarchy
1350 Sioux – 25g, Greeks – 25g
1300 trireme

I have decided to trade mostly with the Zulu, even though they are on the same continent. I will not make as much gold, but in the last game where trades were to other continents I made much more than enough. Zulu cities will be demanding most of my commodities, and the other continents are going to be hard to reach quickly enough with triremes to make trading there any better. Even though trade will be local, the trireme will be needed to speed delivery times. I can probably make 6 or 8 deliveries to the Zulus in the time it would take to make 2 to demanding AI cities on other continents.

An alternative strategy I considered for this map (where some black-clicking confirmed to me that other continents would be hard to reach quickly) was to build the Lighthouse wonder, but I concluded that many smaller trades to a local AI to whom I could build a connecting road would be the better choice.

1150 Zulus – 50g, Persians – give tech, 50g
1100 Literacy, hides(d) to Bapedi, 92g
1050 hides

I will have Republic in a few more turns. Even with that in hand, I will keep research maxed to get to Medicine and Sanitation as quickly as possible. This research effort will be supplemented by a string of early caravan deliveries. I want to try and switch to Republic and start SSC growth earlier in this game than I did in the last. Another long range plan will be to build a road and railroad to the Zulu cities I establish trade routes with. I’d like to have these in place by the time Automobile is discovered.

[StuporMan]

I elected to go with Solo's save this round. MPE was too big an advantage to pass up.

1950: Library
1900: MarketPlace
1800: Temple
Since I will be building caravans now I decide to consult with my calculator to see what I will be supplying.
It turns out I will have a strong supply of Hides up until the 16th tech. At that point Hides permanently drop off the list. I will, however, retain Dye and Silk with the 3rd commodity being Coal at that point. I decide that I will maximize hides caravans over the next several turns, putting off tech 16 for as long as possible.
1550: Hides, At this point I double check my findings. I discover that if I change the rivered plains to forest I will retain hides in the third wildcard position until I reach size 8. This makes delaying research much less important. I can be more free to trade for on path techs and can go ahead and produce the other two commodities for delivery. The next commodity I will make is silk, since it will disappear the same time as Hides (16+ techs & size 8). I want both of these commodities to stick so that I can do some major Wonder Flipping later.
1450: Monarchy -> Literacy, Revolution to Monarchy.
1400: Silk,
1350: Celts trade for Map Making, 25g gift
Zulus: Trade for Mysticism, Trade Maps
Vikings: Give Techs, share maps
Persians: Trade Maps
Greeks: Share Maps
Sioux: Share Maps
I want to be able to deliver Silk to Little Bighorn for the demand bonus, and luckily I found a route. My other Commodities are demanded by the Zulus, unfortunately there are not many opportunities for overseas trade early in this game. I guess a road to the Zulus will be my best bet.
1150: Dye, I am now building a trireme to try and speed deliveries to everyone. I am hoping
1100: Literacy->Philosophy? I thought Republic would be available, oh well, this just means I will choose Republic as my free tech from Philosophy.
I noticed the Celts had almost 400 gold in their pockets. With my status being Pathetic, I thought I would relieve them of some. I talked, asked for gift, they gave me 300 gold! I would have gifted tech, but they were short on time. I will probably bump up to another key civ anyway after all that gold.

Using this gold I rush my Trireme. Deliveries to the Zulus will commence soon!

1050: I decide to pop a hut along the way. I get a chariot. I will use this unit to pop several other huts on my continent before getting Republic.
1000: Tip another hut along the way, get a NONE Archer, sending back to Madrid, this archer will be my homeland defense for most of the rest of the game.
I just took a look and Bapedi will change its demand list next turn due to its Solo Cycle coming up. Fortunately, the change will be due to the Dye-Copper bug and I can get Hides back as a demanded commodity by first delivering Dye as a demanded commodity

I think over the next set of turns I will start a road to the Zulus to facilitate trade with them, while at the same time delivering any demanded commodities over to the Sioux via a southern Island hopping route I found while black clicking. This hopefully will give me some better returns than just delivering to the Zulus alone.

StuporMan

[solo]

Originally posted by StuporMan
1100: Literacy->Philosophy? I thought Republic would be available, oh well, this just means I will choose Republic as my free tech from Philosophy.
StuporMan

Each tech trade adds a tech to your total and you made just the right number of trades to get the list without Republic. One more tech trade (or one fewer) and you could have picked Republic instead of Philosophy.

Mining the rivered plains was a good idea for improving trading oppotunities. The only problem is that this will take a lot of time, and there is quite a bit of additional work that still needs to be done around this city.

[StuporMan]

Solo,
I understand the concept of the tech ordering, unfortunately I was not keeping good track of which techs would come up next. I again forgot about the effect BW would have on the tech list. I was fortunate to get Philosophy as a choice as it will allow me to get Republic on the same turn (provided I do not pull the same mistake twice). As a bonus this should also allow me to research Medicine as my next tech.

I realize that mining the plains is a risky move. It probably will result in slower city growth, but again this allows me to build an extra hides caravans. What really might end up hurting is my needing to build up caravans for wonders like shakes and copes, while at the same time being able to produce caravans for trade. Balancing this out will prove difficult, techs and $ now versus infrastructure for later.

I may have to pop out a settler in order to continue working on the city as I also want to get the road started to the Zulus to get the trade bonus's going and to facilitate trade there, while allowing my trireme to do deliveries to the Sioux. All this will probably backfire as I will be missing out on the benefits of a full sized city for a good number of turns. I am hoping the extra trade arrows from the road bonus and the more lucrative overseas trade will compensate. Time will tell.

StuporMan

[rjmatsleepers]

I was tempted to use Solo's save - the benefits of MPE were clearly going to be dramatic. In the end, however, I decided to continue with my game for a while.

2000 BC The plan is to research to Trade as fast as I can and then stop researching; so first, start celebrating.
1950 BC Zulus discover Masonary
1900 BC Those nice Zulus give us 50 gold
1800 BC build trireme; alliance with Zulus
1700 BC discover trade; set research to zero
1400 BC 25 gold from the Zulus
1150 BC 25 gold from the Zulus
1050 BC tip hut for pottery complete MPE
1000 BC alliance with English (no cash); alliance with Sioux (no cash); alliance with Persians (150); alliance with Celts (50); peace with Vikings (no alliance). 50 from Zulus. rush market place

[solo]

I think a week for each turnset is enough time, so I will continue with my log up to 500 BC.

975 hides
950 Republic, dye(d) to Ulundi, 116g

Sioux – trade for The Wheel, share maps
Persians – give tech
Greeks – give tech, share maps
Vikings – give tech, share maps
Zulus – give tech, share maps
Celts – give tech, 50g

Each AI gets Republic, and I head for Medicine and Sanitation next, using maxmium science except when caravan deliveries allow shifting the sliders for more income.

925 – hides
875 – trireme, must add another boat to keep deliveries moving
850 diplomat, Philosophy, Medicine

hides(d) to Zimbabwe, 136g
hides(d) to Zimbabwe, 136g

When I have enough to build Shakespeare’s, I will go to Republic and grow. A diplomat is ready for the barb archer that appeared on the home continent.

825 silk, Construction

Sioux – trade for Seafaring, 100g
Persians – give tech, 100g
Greeks – 100g
Vikings – 100g
Celts – give tech, share maps

800 coal
775 food

hides(d) to Zimbabwe, 136g
hides(d) to Zimbabwe, 136g

750 food, barb archer bribed, 61g; revolution
725 Shakespeare’s Theater, govt. to Republic

Sioux – 50g, Celts – 50g, Zulus – 25g, Vikings – 50g

700 we love begins, Engineering
675 size 5
650 size 6, Celts – give tech
625 size 7
600 settlers

I need to speed up city tile development if I am going to do that and build a road/rr to the Zulus. City growth is about 4 turns ahead of last game’s pace.

575 size 8, Vikings, Persians & Greeks – 50g each
550 aqueduct, size 9
525 size 10
500 harbor, size 11, Celts – give tech, 50g

I should learn Sanitation just in the knick of time. After that, I might relax research a bit and collect more taxes. Next stop will be all pre-Renaissance techs followed by a push towards Explosives.

[StuporMan]

This set of turns took much careful planning before starting. I knew that in exchange for getting to build hides caravans for a few more turns, that I would be behind in city growth. Likewise, I will have less time for my settler to build interstate Zulu. As such I need to get more settlers. The problem is that building more settlers would require more city resources that would be needed for growth.

While pondering what to do about this trap I had laid for myself, I did some investigating into where the road/rail connections would need to be placed in order to get a bonus. Luckily for me, the Zulus had already set up a station city for me to utilize for delivery bonuses. Bapedi was perfectly set up for Ulundi to be my major delivery center to get those juicy delivery bonuses. Another boon was the fact that the trade route bonuses all fell along pretty well the same route for all Zulu cities, as did the Delivery payout route. Unfortunately, these routes were spaced an even 2 hexes apart.

Now, analysing this gave me time to remember that a few turns ago that the Zulus had two active settlers near Ulundi. I believe I have an idea on how to fix all my problems at once. I believe that I am going to need a diplomat soon.

1000: As everyone knows, Diplomats require Lots O' Money, so I bump my Tax rate up to the maximum. Delivery payments will pay for my next advance.
975: Hides, Hut:100g
On this turn, my power rating dropped to Pathetic. Sounds like the perfect opportunity to ask for donations to the Convert-a-Zulu foundation. For just a few gold per turn your too can give a Zulu settler a good Spanish Home.

The Celts gave a generous 100g donation.
The Zulus, likewise gave 100g. I am glad they want their settlers to have a good home.
The Persians, made yet another 100g donation.
The Greeks were a bit strapped, yet still gave 50g to our worthy cause.
Finally, the Sioux decided to give 100g.
The Vikings, being so advanced, were more interested in giving us worthless technologies, so we declined to ask for donations (yet).

This brings our total up to 450g (which should be enough to buy one settler at least!).

950: Diplomat, I am sending him to do some "Negotiations" down near Ulundi. He will meet up with my trireme along the way.

925: Barbarians near Madrid. My archer, SHOULD be able to take care of theirs. If not I will call upon my chariot to finish them off.

900: Food.
Dye to Zimbabwe, 132g.
I will stockpile a few caravans in order to build Shakes when I get Medicine.

Zulu: give tech, share maps.

875: Philosopy->Republic->Medicine.
Hides to Zimbabwe 132g.

Science now returns to full. I will revolt the next Oedo year after the barbarian threat is taken care of (hopefully in 5 turns). I can celebrate to size 7 without Shakes. This size also allows me to build hides vans.

850: Barbarian leader: 150g
Hides, I misclicked, but I will go ahead and send this van down to the Zulus. Perhaps alternating caravans will be a good way to save up for wonders.

800: Food.
The plains->forest settler is now done. Starting food improvements.

775: Food.
Sioux again rich, willing to take 100g burden off their hands, I also decide to trade for Masonry.
Vikings give 150g.
I will give them Republic next time.
Share maps with Zulu, give techs.

750: Revolution!

725: Republic.
Food.
Bribe Zulu Settler for 412g.
Decide to go ahead and build Colossus.
It will give me more benefit than Shakes until I run hides dry.
At that point Shakes will be build and I will grow past size 7.

700: Colossus.
Second Settler bribed for 412g.
I am one road away from having a delivery bonus!

675: Size 5. Hides. Vikings give techs.

650: Size 6. Hides

625: Size 7. Hides. Banking. Hides to Ulundi: 180g.

600: Hides.
Sometime around here I sent off my trireme to deliver silk and hides to the Sioux. It is taking a southern route. (you should be able to see the beginning of the route in the 500BC save)

575: Hides. Construction. Celts: 100, Zulu: 25, Persians: 100, Greeks: Give Tech, Sioux: 50g. I am trying to keep up a Hides per turn as long as possible.

550: Hides. Hides to Ulundi, 196g. Zulus change to republic, just in time for a delivery too!

Oops, I had forgotten to bump my sciences back up from the turn before Construction. That may cost me a turn or two. The extra gold will help with rushing hides vans, though.

525: Hides.
Mathematics.
Zulus: Share Maps, 100g,
Diplomat returned the long way to Madrid, is now checking to see if a hut is still around.

500: Hides.
I think one more hides, then it is time for Shakes. I will wait to deliver many of these hides vans until I am at full size if possible. The only exception is when I need cash to rush build improvements.

Overall I am happy with this set of turns. I am disappointed in my research partners, as it looks like I am going to have to research the Wheel myself. This means I will also have to pick up horseback riding from one of the AI. I hope the Sioux finish the Hanging Gardens soon as I would like to get Seafaring from them as well.

I am thinking that my next Hides caravan will go to Zimbabwe. I believe that even though I get a bonus from Ulundi, Zimbabwe might pay off a bit higher. As it is, Ulundi paid off at almost 200g per caravan which I am quite pleased with. I should be able to get several very quick advances using all of the hides caravans that I stockpiled this turnset. It is also looking like I will have a road connection to the Zulus around 1AD. This will certainly help with 1 turn advances later in the game.

StuporMan

[StuporMan]

Oops, I forgot to post the save. Here it is.

StuporMan

[biru biru]

It's nice to meet you guys!

Tried the OCC challenge last year or so. Didn't even post results b/c, despite the fact that I have been playing this game since it came out, pausing only briefly to play one and a half games of civ III, and having done some pretty amazing things with the game, I am just not in this class yet.

I have just started playing multi-player, and am in serious need of a level up, especially my early game.

Specifically, what is the 'size 1 settler' trick? I may have more questions later, and I hope that you don't mind my continued lurking on these threads.

Yours Truly,
biru

[solo]

Welcome!

Normally if a settler is built in a size 1 city this will cause the city to disband, but if the city is your capital this doesn't happen. This trick allows you to get to size 3 very quickly, since once your city reaches size 2, the newly created settler can join it.

[biru biru]

Ahh... actually just figured it out. Very nice.

Been playing the map, with quick monarchy and early love the king day with hanging gardens.

Got really sloppy in the early AD though, spent a bunch of turns stopped at size 12 b/c I didn't have sanitation yet. Later, even worse, land was not fully cultivated and I paused at 21 until explosives.

Really nice though, alliance with the zulus kept the interlopers out most of the game.

I will try again. Your logs are very helpful. Thanks!

[StuporMan]

Welcome biru biru!

I just recently started OCC myself. Feel free to post your results here. This is not a competition thread (at least I hope not), it is merely a way for us to come together and play a game using different styles. Then we can compare the results and all of us improve our games.

If you are looking for good resources, first and foremost you should check out solo's Early Landing Guide.
This is one of the best resources around for improving your civ game. It does not specifically cover OCC, but does cover several topics related to OCC. The foremost of these is trade, which is a key component to OCC and is the key to drastically reducing your landing dates!

The next place you should go is the Paulicy on OCC
This is another excellent guide, and this one is specific to OCC.

Finally, check out the Great Library Index
This links all of the most interesting and useful information about Civ 2 ever collected.

Also, don't be afraid to ask questions. I have found that nearly everyone here is friendly and is more than willing to answer your questions.

Again, welcome to the community. I hope you will find it as enjoyable as I have.

StuporMan

[biru biru]

I'm a full century behind, and not doing as well as the vets here, but just to say thanks; based on tips and reading from StuporMan and others here (esp Solo's ELG paper) I had my best early game to date; Monarchy by 2250, Collossus built 2100. City size 4 (no growth), tech every 6 turns, 10 shields per turn at year 2000.

[rjmatsleepers]

I've downloaded the saves from Solo and StuporMan. Until the middle of next week I have promises to keep and far to go before I sleep. I'm not sure whether or when I will be able to play my own save through to 500 BC .

Welcome, biru biru. Can I encourage you to post a 500 BC save and a log from 1000 BC to 500 BC? Seeing how other people play helps all of us learn.

RJM at Sleeper's

[solo]

biru biru,

My first OCC landing date was after 2000 AD, so yes, there is a learning curve in playing OCC games! I used to practice on old games, playing them over again many times to get the hang of how to play OCC well.

StuporMan,

An excellent turnset, and you have found a fine solution to your problems. Another advantage of bribing Zulu settlers is that they no longer get in your way, irrigating or mining tiles you desperately want to finish roading or railroading!

Roading to boost payoffs first is a great idea I wish I had thought of before completing my own game, but my home grown workers started there and worked their way west. Your fine idea may give you the advantage at the 1 AD checkpoint, even though I grew my city faster.

RJM,

We will wait for you to play up to 500 BC if you are busy and need more time.