OCC 2005 Game 2

[solo]

This one features 2 silk, a wine and a whale, all within view at the start! Other settings are the same, except that we are playing with Spain and that this start came with one free tech: Bronze Working. This should provide some interesting opportunities! There are no restrictions: i.e. all exploits are allowed.

We can play until 2000 B.C. and then compare. Afterwards players may choose whichever save they want to use during the next stage.

[StuporMan]

Solo,

I have downloaded the save and have looked at it. The starting position appears to be very good, no reason to move and with Bronze Working for free we will get Trade even faster. The extra IRB possibilities from starting with Phalanx available are also quite a bonus. On top of that there is a hut visible for the popping. Much potential indeed.

A few quick questions:

1) You said "There are no restrictions: i.e. all exploits are allowed." Did you mean this literally, or are you saying that all normal OCC allowable exploits are available? We could all get great results if we reroll each hut until we get an on-path tech!

2) Are there going to be any time limit guidelines for playing this round? It appears as though last time there were some attempts at making deadlines for each round and was wondering if this trend will continue.


Well I look forward to playing this game all the way through and seeing how well things turn out! Good luck all!

StuporMan

[solo]

Reloads used to alter random game events are not allowed, which is the usual policy in our games in this forum. Any use of the cheat menu is taboo, too.

Exploits are allowed, i.e. all the little tricks we use to exploit quirks or patterns of the game which we have previously observed or discovered.

Time limits are usually a week or so for each stage, and depend on who is playing and how soon they all finish.

Don't forget to enjoy your games!

[rjmatsleepers]

I've downloaded the start position, but I'm not sure when I'll get a chance to play it. Pity about Bronze Working - otherwise it could be played as an EL game.

RJM at Sleeper's

[StuporMan]

Solo,

I had assumed that reloads and cheat menu were off limits, I just wanted to be sure I understood you correctly. So if my understanding is correct then reloads are bad and Airbases on hills are good. (Not that I expect to do either in this round).

RJM (can I call you RJM?),

Yes it is unfortunate that this start prohibits an EL game, but will more than likely make this a very good OCC game, maybe this time we can break the 1700ad barrier . I hope you will get the chance to participate in this game, based on our landing dates in the last game we are fairly close in skill level so hopefully we can learn from each other.

Happy Civing!
StuporMan

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by StuporMan

RJM (can I call you RJM?),

I hope you will get the chance to participate in this game, based on our landing dates in the last game we are fairly close in skill level so hopefully we can learn from each other.

Happy Civing!
StuporMan

Feel free to call me RJM - I will answer to hi or to any loud cry.

I played the first 2000 years. I tried a dash for monarchy by not tipping any huts until I'd revolted. In the event I met the Zulus and couldn't resist trading for maps. After tipping the huts, I had so many units that I was on zero production

In the event, I only got 1 tech from a hut - but at least it was currency which I was researching

4000 BC tip hut for a horseman; Found Apolyton; begin researching alphabet
3800 BC alphabet->code of laws
3400 BC code of laws->ceremonial burial
2950 BC ceremonial burial->monarchy
2850 BC Greek civilization destroyed by barbarians
2700 BC meet the Zulus; swap for map making; gift code of laws; no map
2300 BC monarchy->currency and revolt
2250 BC tip hut for barbarian horseman; tip hut for archer; tip hut for horseman; tip hut for currency
2200 BC start researching trade

[Grigor]

I hav played to 2000 BC. I will be out nxt week, so please continue without me. I tried Smash's early wonder plan after th size 1 settler - maybe these plans don't combine so well...


Log:
Preliminary observations: Excllent starting site. We used to pplay only these kind of sites for OCC...
Size 1 settler plan must be correct here with the silk to work (meaning there is no cost to science). Should the build be
(a) warrior (explore) - settler - warrior - temple or
(b) settler - warrior - warrior - temple??

The extra exploration turns must be balanced by the extra settler turns before the size 1 settler gets folded into the city the minute it grows to size 2 (and gets the martial law for size 3)

Pop hut first. That will determine it.

4000BC Hut: NONE horse. So it is Settler build first. Much as I would like to build a NONE army, it will be too slow to justify delaying the city. Madrid founded. Working Whale
3950 Researching CB.
3900* roading silk
3850 Hut: Horse (Madrid). PRB warrior. working silk
3750 CB=>Alph Silk has a road
3500* Hut: Archer - moves to fortify city, so no warriors are necessary after all.
3350 Size 1 settler built.
3250 second silk roaded.
3200 ALph=>CoL(33). Zulus: peace, no tech trade.
3150 Hut: NONE Chariot
3050 Zulus ask chariot to withdraw - back to home city. Thanks! I needed to investigate in the other direction.
3000 Barb Archers near Zimbabwe. We will observe.
2900* Zulus develop Currency - Oh Boy!
2850 Hut: CoL!! Ulundi dizcovered. Wine Hill mined - time to fold the settler into city.
2800 Researching Monarchy. (30/48) - I will miss the Oedo year by 1 Beaker! Temple built. Decision point: Monarchy soon, then trade for Currency, and Trade. With a mined wine hill, a whale, and 2 silks, Colossus should be fast. I'll try that.
2750 Settler Joins City
2700* The sad 1-beaker shortfall coms to pass. set workers for a few turns of food.
2600 Monarchy => Currency. Zulus: Trade for Currency.
2550 Trade not offered. Looks like Colossus was a good bet. Research Writing
2500* Revolution
2450 Gov: Monarchy. Madrid Size 3, 9 beakers, 4 gold, 8 shields.
2350 Zulu Barbs finally destroyed. No leader possibility.
2150 Hut: Madrid Archers. Good for disbanding.
2100* Writing=>Trade (84) - will discover in 10 turns (1600BC).
2000 Most Powerful: 2. Spanish 3. Zulu. Chariot returns home after completing Island Exploration. Archer disbands. Treasury: 47g.
Colossus: 129/200 - will build in 1500.

So the actual build order was settler-Temple-Colossus.

[StuporMan]

Apologies for brief plug

Sorry I have been unable to play through this game yet, but I have been working on something you might be interested in

StuporMan's Supply And Demand Calculator

Take a look and tell me what you think. I should post my log by Friday.

StuporMan

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Grigor
I hav played to 2000 BC. I will be out nxt week, so please continue without me. I tried Smash's early wonder plan after th size 1 settler - maybe these plans don't combine so well...

2800 Researching Monarchy. (30/48) - I will miss the Oedo year by 1 Beaker! Temple built. Decision point: Monarchy soon, then trade for Currency, and Trade. With a mined wine hill, a whale, and 2 silks, Colossus should be fast. I'll try that.
2750 Settler Joins City
2700* The sad 1-beaker shortfall coms to pass. set workers for a few turns of food.
2600 Monarchy => Currency. Zulus: Trade for Currency.
2550 Trade not offered. Looks like Colossus was a good bet. Research Writing
2500* Revolution
2450 Gov: Monarchy. Madrid Size 3, 9 beakers, 4 gold, 8 shields.

This looks like a very good turnset - and I was feeling pleased with myself for getting monarchy in 2250BC

RJM at Sleeper's

[solo]

Here is my log up to 2000 BC. Players may continue onto 1000 BC whenever they want, using the save of their choice, though I’m assuming most will want to continue their own games.

4000 Madrid
3800 warriors

I’ve saved the hut for now. If I tip a tech, then I can research Monarchy in two more steps. A military unit or gold will allow me to use the size 1 settler trick. Barbs are impossible since the hut is within the city’s radius. I will leave most other huts for the AI to help speed their own progress.

3750 Alphabet, start on Code of Laws, hut - archer
3700 archer disbanded for size 1 settler shields
3400 settlers
3350 size two, settlers joins city, size 3
3300 warriors

Now I am working the wine and two silks, and will celebrate my Despotism to make it more like a Monarchy. I have started on the Colossus wonder. Since that hut did not give me a tech, I have decided to go to Trade before going to Monarchy. Otherwise the Colossus would be built before Trade was discovered. I think the early start on wonder building provided by Bronze Working makes Trade the first priority in this game.

3250 Code of Laws
2900 enough roads are in place to start we love, Currency
2500 Trade, start on Writing

MPE will be ready in 10 more turns. I hope to trade for Ceremonial Burial and maybe even Monarchy by the time MPE is built. If neither of these techs are available I may just proceed on to Republic instead.

2000 Marco Polo’s Embassy, Writing

Persians – trade for Ceremonial Burial, peace, alliance, 100g
Greeks – give tech, peace, alliance, 50g
Sioux – give tech, peace, alliance, 150g
Vikings – give tech, peace, alliance, 50g
Zulus – I give 50g in tribute, give tech, alliance, 100g gift, for a net profit of 50g!
Celts – give tech, peace, alliance, 50g

Since Ceremonial Burial was available, I have decided to trade for it and go to Monarchy next. I did not trade for any other techs yet, so as to get to Monarchy sooner, since I will be the last player out of Despotism. Since my current rating is Pathetic, I have set up alliances with all the other civs and have asked each of them for that initial gift of gold.

[rjmatsleepers]

Solo, even if you are last to Monarchy, building MPE will more than make up for it. This looks like a superb turnset - only to be expected from the master

RJM at Sleeper's

[StuporMan]

4000: There is a lot to decide early on in this game. Should I tip the hut, or should I wait?
I made the decision to tip the hut because the only difference between now and later is that if I tip now and get a unit, it will be a NONE unit instead of having to support it.
Should I get a unit I will tip huts aggressively, otherwise I will wait until I get Monarchy.
I tip and get 50 gold, size 1 settler it is. Huts will wait till Monarchy, I may try to tip one before I have to research my off path tech.
Madrid founded.

3800: Warrior
3750: Alphabet
3450: Settler
3400: Size 2 -> Size 3 with settler, Warrior will be built next turn. I am hoping for a tech this turn from a hut,
unfortunately I get another 50 gold, it could have been worse. No more huts till after Monarchy.
3350: Warrior, Start Collossus. I am 1 beaker shy so I shift over to get more tax.
3300: Ceremonial Burial -> Code of Laws
2950: Code of Laws -> Monarchy? How did this happen. I double checked and I have 2.42 installed, this is odd.
2900: Bump luxuries up to celebrate Despotism.
2800: Sioux destroyed by Barbarians! This does not bode well, as this will delay the research rate of at least 2 civs. I hope restarts are on.
2550: Change Tax rate to delay for next Oedo year.
2450: Monarchy! -> Currency in 6 turns. With a celbrating Monarchy I might be able to get trade before Colossus is done.
I don't know why I was allowed to research Monarchy as my 3rd tech, but I am not complaining.
Could it have something to do with BW for free? I didn't think that had any effect.
2200: Currency -> Writing. I miscalculated and cannot research trade this turn.
I am not researching Map Making as I expect one of the AI to do that for me.
Writing is further up the tech path and therefore less likely for the AI to research.
Hopefully I can still get trade in time.
Also this will allow me to build a library right after Colossus if I don't get trade in time.
2000: Well, I am not going to get Trade in time for MPE, so I will get Colossus first.
This may or may not be the end of the world as this will increase trade and therefore make rush buying caravans easier.
It will also give the AI more opportunity to research without being saddled with extra techs which may mean this delay will give me 2 or 3 extra free techs from the AI, but most likely I will be behind several others for the next round at least.

StuporMan

[Elephant]

Sorry I have not been available the last two weeks. A $300K project is hanging in the fire at the moment. Glad to see you all moving on with another OCC. This one looks interesting.

StuporMan, the "hiding" of Cer and CoL during the third tech round is changed by having Bronze as a freebie starter tech. That is why you could proceed directly to Monarchy on your fourth round. In this game the usual gap of one tech separating Monarchy (Alp-CoL-Bro/Wri-Cer-Mon) from early Republic (Alp-Wri-Bro-CoL-Lit-Rep) widens to two (Alp-CoL-Cer-Mon vs Alp-CoL-Wri-Cur-Lit-Rep), but you can get Trade on the seventh round for either path. All of this is assuming you do not get off-path techs from huts or other civs.

[solo]

To clarify it even more, free techs do not change the normal sequencing, but may cause the joker techs to change. "0" techs were skipped on the first list and "1" techs were skipped on the second list, as normal. All "2" techs should be absent from the third list. The reason StuporMan was able to research Code of Laws (a "2" tech) on the third list was because it was the new joker tech, taking the place of the usual joker tech Bronze Working, which had already been acquired as a free starting tech. Code of Laws just happened to be next alphabetically after Bronze Working and joker techs must always appear, regardless of their sequencing number.

[StuporMan]

Thanks for the clarification Elephant and Solo!

This makes more sense now, I was getting very confused and was wondering if I received another tech I had forgotten.

Elephant,

Good luck on your $300K project! I hope you get the chance to participate with us. You had some amazing rounds in the last OCC game.

Thanks,
StuporMan