DICTATOR ToT - DEVELOPMENT THREAD!

[AGRICOLA]

The game is in June '41 and the US is very slowly turning itself into an industrial powerhouse. Here are a couple things that you may want to ponder.

Fairly regularly during British turns the following popup appears "The Germans sink a British Freighter, destroying 200 gold worth of cargo." Similarly, during the German turns there have been popups that "The British sink a German Freighter, destroying 200 gold worth of cargo." It seems that the AI is using Transport Ships (A/D=1/1) as attack units.

Also, by mid 1941, all defenders in Plymouth and London have been eliminated. However, because the Germans have either destroyed all their transports, the AI doesn't use them properly or, most important of all, they have no paratroops left, the British cities are not captured. Might a few extra German para units at the start fix this if you want the AI to invade Britain?

The %$#@* Canadian Allies have built bombers which delight in invading US air space and plug up movement. I think that I may have to conjure up some ships to really make the border impassable to all non-US units.

As a general observation, the AI doesn't seem to know what to do with Allied units. Naval units and empty transport have departed for Europe but aircraft and ground units are wandering around in Canada.

Germany's fight with the British/Allies and the Japanese battle with the Chinese have been such bloodbaths (the major combatants have all lost the better part of 100 units) that the US and USSR are unlikely to have a desperate time when they are forced to join the fray. Of course, I'm presuming that events will not generate hordes of German/Japanese units once the USSR and the US get involved.

[curtsibling]

Nice one!

I followed Koby's lead with making the transports like his
stroke of genius in 'Dainichi Sekai Taisen'. They have an
attack rating, but this is to entice movement from the AI.

Boats lost in this transport attack can be assumed to have
been torpedoed by the enemy. In the playtesting, the USSR
surprised me with their ferocity against the AI Germany.

And once the USA gets the B17s, the game is up for the AI Axis.

Japan is very tough and should be fun to conquer.
And Germany seems to fight to the last man also.

I am a bit bummed out at the CIV2 AI, and have tried
my best to entice it to paly ball...I hope the gameplay
pans out to be fun anyhoo. Tell me how it goes!

[Sarsstock]

I fear that the great crutch of Civilizatoin II will always be a border line incompetant AI. Its a crutch that was an annoyance in the early days of the mid nineties and eventually drove the father of modern scenario making (Captain Nemo) away from the game.

I'm curious, as the American player is anyone still having the problem of commonwealth units invading from Canada?

[AGRICOLA]

You betcha. I've had to cheat up a solid, coast-to-coast wall of ground units as well as ships in the Great Lakes to keep the Allies from trespassing on US territory. I'm also viewing with considerable disfavour their latest efforts to use ships to plug up exits from US West Coast ports. I'm hoping that, when things get rough with Japan, their ships will steam west to blockade Japanese ports and get sunk. Good riddance.

Moreover, the chicken***ts are doing nothing to aid Old Blighty's fight against Adenoid Hinkel.

[Arthedain]

Sorry for not reporting in Curt. My computer doesn't work. I've installed a temporary replacement laptop, but I don't think I will install ToT on it.

[curtsibling]

Originally posted by AGRICOLA
You betcha. I've had to cheat up a solid, coast-to-coast wall of ground units as well as ships in the Great Lakes to keep the Allies from trespassing on US territory. I'm also viewing with considerable disfavour their latest efforts to use ships to plug up exits from US West Coast ports. I'm hoping that, when things get rough with Japan, their ships will steam west to blockade Japanese ports and get sunk. Good riddance.

It makes one almost consider enacting the old USA/Canadian unification option!

[SIZE=1]Moreover, the chicken***ts are doing nothing to aid Old Blighty's fight against Adenoid Hinkel.

I knew Chaplin had something to do with this!

[curtsibling]

Originally posted by Arthedain
Sorry for not reporting in Curt. My computer doesn't work. I've installed a temporary replacement laptop, but I don't think I will install ToT on it.

Don't worry, dude.

I hope your PC problems get sorted soon.

[Alex Woehr]

Just my two cents' worth. I have played two complete games so far and I have noticed a couple of things:

1) The German war machine appears very underpowered. In both of the games I have played, the Nazi "juggernaut" was stopped at Lvov (Odessa was held for one turn in my game as the Japanese). To their credit, they did manage to hold out until February 1945 (primarily because they developed the Me-262 in 1942! ).

2) You may want to look at the tech tree and and the tech paradigm. One of the main reasons for the collapse of Germany, was the fact that they never (and I mean never), developed any tanks better than the Panzer III. The Americans have not managed to develop nuclear weapons yet, and I have not observed a single Churchill tank to date.

3) The Japanese seem slightly overpowered. China is indeed a quagmire in the beginning (those partisans are tough!) but it quickly capitulates after the northern cities fall. In my game as the Japanese, I owned everything east of (and including) Delhi (except for Australia) until Hawaii.

4) The Super Battleships are too cheap. I built about 12 of them during the course of the game.

5) I am not sure if you can fix this, but the AI is a complete idiot when dealing with naval forces. The Commonwealth stacked its entire pacific fleet in one square (and was promptly eliminated by one of my 12 Super Battleships). The Americans stacked about 16-20 ships around Sapporo and they were promptly eliminated. I never felt even mildly threatened on the Pacific Front.

Other than that, the scenario looks great. I am absolutely amazed at how the game usually follows something close to the historical events. Keep up the good work!

[curtsibling]

1) The German war machine appears very underpowered. In both of the games I have played, the Nazi "juggernaut" was stopped at Lvov (Odessa was held for one turn in my game as the Japanese). To their credit, they did manage to hold out until February 1945 (primarily because they developed the Me-262 in 1942! ).

Hmm...I did notice the Barbarossa campaign was quite a disaster for the AI Germans. Though ultimately it should be!
Though the Germans should be a real threat to Russia. The problem is, I don't want to make it too easy for a player
who chooses to play as Germany. It is a fine line to tweak. Perhaps If I gave the German units a bit more power it may help?

Or would it upset the balance? I will experiment and see. The stackable terrain will make a real difference.

2) You may want to look at the tech tree and and the tech paradigm. One of the main reasons for the collapse of Germany, was the fact that they never (and I mean never), developed any tanks better than the Panzer III. The Americans have not managed to develop nuclear weapons yet, and I have not observed a single Churchill tank to date.

The tech choices are really down to the AI, and what they think they need. I made all the tank techs very desirable to
the AI via the rules, and in my games they did go for better armour. I will look over the rules again and see if anything
looks out of whack. As the armour is a very importand aspect for the whole game. Cheers for pointing out this one.

3) The Japanese seem slightly overpowered. China is indeed a quagmire in the beginning (those partisans are tough!) but it quickly capitulates after the northern cities fall. In my game as the Japanese, I owned everything east of (and including) Delhi (except for Australia) until Hawaii.

I do agree on this one.

Do you think the Japanese need less economic power or their units need reduced in power a bit?

4) The Super Battleships are too cheap. I built about 12 of them during the course of the game.

I will increase the cost of these. I was even considering making the super ships events-given.

5) I am not sure if you can fix this, but the AI is a complete idiot when dealing with naval forces. The Commonwealth stacked its entire pacific fleet in one square (and was promptly eliminated by one of my 12 Super Battleships). The Americans stacked about 16-20 ships around Sapporo and they were promptly eliminated. I never felt even mildly threatened on the Pacific Front.

The AI is indeed daft when it comes to sea-battles.

I did consider giving the stackable (basically invisible forts on all tiles) nature to the see too, but that leaves the
transports with a strange oddity, they leave their cargo in the sea when they sink. I am still thinking of this, as the
cargo would most likely be annihilated anyway, by other ships - But it still looks a bit weird.

I am afraid we may be stuck with the CIV2 dumb-AI...
Unless I tweak the settings for the naval units to make them carry out another role...Attack role may make a difference...!

PS
Many thanks for your feed back, dude!

[Broken_Erika]

i suppose those transport ships carry life-rafts, don't they?
mabe they even have some really big life-rafts for the tanks and heavy equipment,

[curtsibling]

Try moving one of those babies onto a life raft!

[Alex Woehr]

I think the computer is just unwilling to follow the Engineering Research->Armament Design III-> Modernized Army progression. I jacked the AI value of Engineering Research by two and each of the Mobile Warfare Techs by 1. I also made Rocketry require Aerial Warfare II as a prerequisite to discourage the development of the Me-262 before the Fw-190.
Also, exactly which kind of bomber does the “generic bomber” represent for the Japanese? I noticed that the Val (ADHF=7/1/4/1) is made almost completely obsolete by the generic bomber (ADHF=12/1/4/1, costs twice as much). What do you think about not letting the Japanese build generic bombers? This would seriously hamper their efforts in inland China until they developed the Peggy.
One last question, was it your intention that the Japanese not capture the Dutch East Indies? You specifically mention in an event that the Japanese should attack them but they are neutral, and therefore perpetually allied with the Japanese.

I am going to try another one or two runs through the game with the aforementioned changes, first as the British and then as the Germans. This should be interesting.

[curtsibling]

Cheers!

I will have a look over the tech tree and see about reducing
the AI values of most things to zero except the modern
army/armour branches and see if that makes a difference.

Let me know if anything interesting happens with the Brits/Germans!

[AGRICOLA]

Playing US, Deity, Feb '42

The USA

The US development into an industrial powerhouse is very well modelled. It needs a lot of engineers and simultaneous development of productive capacity, income and research. IMO, as long as players find such development interesting, it will keep them playing until some time in '43 when the US can launch a powerful attack on either Japan or Germany and '44 when it can attack the other Axis civ.

By all means put the Canadian cities under US control. As part of the Allies, they cause problems and accomplish nothing useful.

Please check if the US can actually get the World War II tech which is needed as one of the precursors for the Manhattan Project. The Soviet Government tech is also needed for the Manhattan Project. Its discovery lets the US build Local Soviets, an unneeded but somewhat unusual improvement for US cities (Roosevelt wasn't THAT pink).

I think that there should be an events-generated state of war between the US and Germany, triggered by the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, rather than than starting hostilities as a result of the US discovering War Intervention. The US should not be allowed to decide when hostilities start.

I kept the research rate at 2 turns/tech through deficit financing until the initial $10,000 ran out in Aug 1941. Research then decreased to 4 turns/tech with a small monthly tax deficit. In Dec 1941 research had to be reduced to 5 turns/tech in order to avoid bankruptcy. By Feb '42, the US has researched the following:

Wartime Production (Munitions Plant)
Improved Railroad. (Engineers, now have 40)
Armored Vehicles. (Armored Car, now have 45)
Mass Production (Manufacturing Plant)
Super Battleship. (Super BB, now have 12)
Radar
AA Defences. (AA Unit, now have 10)
Science Research I
Science Research II (University)
Science Research III (Research Complex)
Working on Armament Design III (150 mm Arty, want 50+ as main offensive unit against cities)

Even with building universities, research complexes, banks and stock exchanges, it is going to be difficult to generate enough revenue and keep the research going at a rate of much better than 3 techs per year. This is inadequate for the US to develop weapons at the historical rate. I suspect that the same holds true for AI civs. Perhaps the research paradigm could do with a tweak.

BTW, as far as I'm concerned, the US now has all the unit types necessary for it to wage a successful war. All that it needs is 12 months to build enough of them and get them into position. US production is impressive, with 5 cities at 100+ shields, 3 at 60+, and a bunch of rapidly growing ones in the 30-40 shield range. By '43 it will be a monster of productivity. The engineers (actually settlers) may be slow but, if there are enough of them, progress can be amazing.

All AI combatants have been bleeding each other dry so that their fighting strength is less than it was at the start. Their casualty lists are impressive. I don't think that you need have any concerns about filling up the units table.


The Rest of the Mob

AI controlled Germany and Japan don't seem to have the offensive punch that they historically had. The German Russian War is a stalemate, with both sides taking turns capturing a city until it is razed. Lvov and Odessa no longer exist. The German assault on Britain has been foundering because they have at various times eliminated all defenders in a British city but have not had the the ground units to capture it. Similarly, The Japanese are making very slow progress in China, their Pearl Harbor attack accomplished little and they seem to be making no move into the East Indies.

What they both seem to lack is a unit that can occupy undefended cities. In Sept 1941 I gave Germany 3 vet Fallschirmjägers and the Air Assault tech. With the Fallschirmjägers they were able to invade Britain. It may help if Germany starts the war with more than 1 Fallschirmjäger and if the unit is linked to a tech (not Air Assault tech) that Germany already possesses. That might give them some badly needed offensive punch. The Japanese might need something similar.

When events generate the Japanese Pearl Harbor attack force, you could use the same events to generate a second force in the East Indies (randomize & count). You may want to add some ground units and transports to the EI force. Need more event space? Who cares about the Kaiser kicking the bucket in Holland.


Miscellaneous

Stackable terrain is a good idea, even if it leaves bods and sods bobbing around in the ocean. IMO, it would help the AI more than the human player; a very good thing.

Should there be a c in Krackow?

How does a State School differ from a regular, simple, run-of-the-mill school?



I think that I have taken the US as far as is needed for testing purposes. A good fight as Germany looks very appealing as a change of pace. Can't wait to get my hands on a few of them there Wespe's.

[Patine]

One last question, was it your intention that the Japanese not capture the Dutch East Indies? You specifically mention in an event that the Japanese should attack them but they are neutral, and therefore perpetually allied with the Japanese.

Yeah, I brought that up earlier. I've found, as the Japanese, not being able to attack the Dutch East Indies quite frustrating. I still think the Brits should control it (or even the Commonwealth).