P vs ST (not for ST)

[Peaster]

50: YES! Hanging Gardens in Hlobane. Ibaba (13) founded near Ulundi on wheat. I call myself an ICS player, and this is my only size one city ! But I am now planning another growth spurt, while aiming for maps, lit, phil, poly and mono. I will also try to move stacked units into ST's position by land or sea, and build an embassy to find out what's going on.

ST has a warrior two squares from Intombe. I block it with one of mine, but he has probably already seen the city. I have another dip coming, and can probably bribe this warrior. Maybe incidents like this will become common soon. For example, I have a warrior exploring the Cheb area from the East, which could also bump into a city and be quickly bribed.

I finally bribe the warrior in the south this turn (23g), and will start moving a stack towards Hradec from the West. By messing with the bribing formula and an old "nearest city" report, I think ST's capitol is near (38,38). Kladno should be a few squares NNE of that, and Slany a few squares SE of Kladno.

51:

Those of you looking for a little violence may get your wish. I moved a warrior (Lonely Guy, I guess) onto plains near Lonsim and met an American warrior. I think this is ST's first chance to attack at roughly 50-50 odds, and I am interested to see if he will do it.

[Carolus Rex]

Nice catch (HG)! That should ease current and potential happiness problems for a while.

I wonder what TCO would say about this? Pyramids over HG, right?

Carolus

[Peaster]

Tx, Carolus. Maybe TCO knows something we don't, but I definitely prefer HG at Deity level, and have never needed it more than I did in this game. In fact, I am wondering how ST will manage without it.

52: Well, he did not attack Lonely Guy. But he did report the brutal murder of a Zulu warrior exploring the surprisingly large peninsula east of Isand (see the minimap below). This warrior just noticed that a hut was missing, so it should have been on alert.

I am happy with my position, but my over-sized cities need to make settlers soon, and most of them are low on shields. At the same time, I have to deal with at least 3 American warriors trying to scout my lands. One of those is at 35,9 (two diagonal moves west of Ibaba) - I don't know why it is visible to me.

53: Osizi (14) founded near Ngome and a whale.

Mpondo is making trouble again. It just started rioting at size 2, the same turn a I switched a horse for a warrior. So, I cannot empty the city this turn. Also, I cannot employ an Elvis because there is no food in the box. I will make a settler in this city asap, and get it back to size one where it belongs.

My little gang in the S.W. is now at 23,41 - nearest to Kutna Hora. I hope my dip can get into such a city for an embassy or free tech. Then, the boat I have planned for Cheb may carry military units instead of a dip.

Here's an updated mini-map. I certainly don't control all the green area yet, but I may grab 2/3 of the map if ST doesn't act pretty soon. For example, he may be able to push into the central area north of his homeland and take a couple of my cities. I cannot do too much militarily until I finish my growth spurt and get some better tech.

[Peaster]

54: What can I do about the Mpondo riot ? I don't have enough units for two militia plus the stack on the mountain, and the city already has some support problems. Elvis = instant starvation. So, I removed my horseman as planned. Then I realized ST could easily have a trireme just out of sight, carrying a warrior to take my empty size two city [Much gnashing of teeth].
This kind of problem may become common as my civ grows, so I need to find a decent solution.

See screenshot below.

55: Map Making -> Literacy. If ST doesn't get Literacy soon [I should know from the Literacy Stat on the Demo screen] then I'll race for Phil. But I have set taxes to 70 this turn to pay for some unexpected rushes, and to keep enough gold on hand to afford bribes.

Proud day for the Zulus !!! This turn, the top five cities were all green. We also reached 500,000 population.

My units return to Mpondo (ST did not take it, but a new warrior is seen approaching from the West and I do not want to give him another chance, if he has boats). I spend 54g to rush a Settler, even though there aren't any great sites nearby. Down to 33g.

ST's warriors are harassing several of my neighborhoods. Not really dangerous, but I'd prefer he didn't actually see my cities + terrain, and that he not establish any stacks on critical mountains.

I plan to have a boat and dip ready to sail from Zimbabwe in about 3 turns, headed to Cheb to make an embassy. I am eager to know ST's techs, gold, and number of cities. To me, this kind of info is priceless.

A strange phenomenon down south - as my little band heads due east, the nearest city reports have changed back and forth from Kutna Hora to Benesov back to Kutna Hora. This seems impossible with normal geometry. Something is crazy there, or maybe it's me.

I am also curious where Stribro might be. I have a few units running loose between Intombe and Cheb, but I haven't managed to bump into any new cities.

Here's a shot of Mpondo just before 55AD.

[Peaster]

56: My warrior finds an unexpected whale near Tugela. I was sloppy with my hut/specials map, I guess. I have quit updating my paper maps, since there seem to be few huts left.

The warrior in the screenshot approached Mpondo, so I bribed it for 30g. ST has a 2nd one nearby and could have stacked them, so I assume he doesn't mind such bribes. I think a warrior is worth about 20g, which means I'll pay up to 40g for a bribe (20g to remove it from ST and 20g to have it for myself). This little drama will probably repeat a few times - the warrior gets good map info, but is soon bribed (or killed). AFAIK this is a fairly even deal for both sides. But I am trying to scout ST's position mainly with stacked units.

57: New trireme in Zimbabwe. It carries a dip and a vet archer to the north and soon finds land to the west, across the sea! And it sees American units in a stack there, with a phalanx on top! This is a mystery -

1) The land is part of the main continent (1), but I can't tell if it connects via the N.E. near Cheb, or via the peninsula east of Isand. Not both, or it would disconnect the main ocean (also 1).

2) Why would ST have a phalanx there... so close to Zimbabwe? AFAIK you can't get a phalanx from a hut, and it is a strange unit to use for exploring. So, I suppose he is planning an attack by sea, with boats that he has been hiding from me, or that he has not yet built.

But AFAIK ST doesn't have any cities nearby - even Cheb is a pretty long walk. And if he has boats, why hasn't he grabbed Mpondo yet? So, I am unsure what to think, but I will increase defense spending for the capitol a bit.

58: Amati (15) near Tugela. My gold is back up to 95 before some small rushes, so I lower taxes and go for Phil (I am almost halfway to Lit).

ST's phalanx stack retreated one square to the west. My boat continues to the N.E. to harass the Cheb area, rescue my stranded stack, and probably make an embassy. But my gang in the south (dip, w, w, ph) must be pretty close to ST's capitol now, so I may make the embassy there, instead.

I have lured a warrior towards my dip, for bribing next turn, and am trying the same trick in 2 other locations. I placed a settler on a hill next to the first one, which ST may attack. But he'd have rather low odds, I think, so this reaction would probably just save me some gold.

I hope that ST cannot attack my capitol for a few more turns, while I spit out some settlers, and regain my balance after making HG. Soon, I'll have a vet archer and a second horse there, plus the option to rush a dip if needed. My trireme may return to threaten any loaded boats. ST might still be able to seize a mountain or two, but I doubt he could take a city quickly without at least 8 good units in the area. His window of opportunity will shrink further if I have about 8 turns, for a few pike men or ellies.

[Peaster]

This position (after Zulu 59AD) may be critical. My boat should be invisible to ST , and the Cheb flag is down. If he defends Cheb, but does not sink my boat, I can probably occupy the gold mountain with the dip + archer on board.

My boat and my phlalanx stack are nearest to "Stribro" which must be just east of the gold square. But even when my units were at 16,14 (just east of ST's stack) they were nearest to Stribro, which doesn't seem possible. Can anyone guess where that city could be?

[Peaster]

59: Cheb is empty, but is out of reach of my boat. I moved closer, where I thought it would not be visible, but later I found Stribro on a nearby hill, so ST saw me first and guarded Cheb, and it will not be free.

60: Zungu (16) south of the homeland near a whale. Another warrior is bribed. A warrior in my southern gang spots a loaded American boat offshore!!
Well, now I know he has mapmaking. The boat is three squares from Mpondo. If it contains decent units, they will take a coastal mountain square and Mpondo may fall in 2 turns. Fortunately, my Mpondo settler is near an OK site, so I have just enough time to build there and rehome 3 Mpondo units before that city falls.

My Archer and dip land on the gold between Cheb and Stribro, as planned. Since his cities are on hills, I probably will not attack with the Archer unless I am desperate.

Two bribed warriors cost about 55g and my reserves are low again. But I feel pretty safe near Lonsim and Ngome now.

61: Naples (17) Americans embark near Mpondo, as expected, with a stack on a coastal mountain, topped by a phalanx. I re-home 3-4 Mpondo units this turn in Naples to prepare for the worst. An unexpected stack also appears on a mountain near (but not adjacent to) Hlobane(HG) and Umtata, a sign of trouble ahead.

I finish my Cheb plan by creating an embassy, and replacing the dip by a warrior from my boat to prevent bribery. The boat will return with a phalanx. This prevents bribery along the coast, and the phalanx seems to be needed more at home anyway. NEW INFO:

The Americans have only about 8 techs, but this includes math and maps. Apparently, ST will attack mainly with phalanx/catapult stacks delivered by boats to mountains or hills near my cities. I assume this is what's happening at Mpondo and Hlobane. I will not need Feudalism/pikemen for a long time, but desperately need some units to attack stacks that venture off the mountains.

They have only 16g, so I have little fear of bribery for a few turns. They have 11 cities; maybe 1-2 more than I guessed.

After I informed ST of this embassy, he realized he should have reported one he made in Mpondo in 43AD !! This news was hard to take. I did not think ST would launch a major attack without building an embassy first [to check out my tech and gold reserves, etc]. And I assumed (probably correctly) that he would build one soon after getting his first boat. So, an invasion by sea seemed especially unlikely for many turns. Suddenly, I am facing at least two of them.

All this bad news spoils the game a little for me, but it relieves any embarrassment I felt about my good luck with huts. If ST doesn't wipe me out, it might even make the game more interesting. If I can hang on to HG, I think I will keep the advantage, but if I lose HG, or my capitol, my game could fall apart. I have posted a settler in Hlobane to pump up the city size, if necessary, and am scurrying to post my units effectively. I have to expect a boat from the West too, perhaps near Zimbabwe. I assume this invasion has been planned for at least 20 turns, meaning 1-2 more boatloads of ph/cat stacks are already on the way.

Suddenly gold is very important, so I postpone bribing another trapped warrior, and keep taxes at 70. I rush a phalanx in Hlobane and am down to about 40g. No gold is wasted on the doomed city of Mpondo.

The good news is that my growth spurt is kicking in, with 3 new cities online in 2 turns. So, I can afford to lose a few minor cities like Mpondo (but not my homeland). Also, my southern gang may be able to steal a tech within about 3 turns. Math would greatly ease my defense (catapults vs catapults) and with masonry, I might be able to rush build walls in Hlobane.

[Carolus Rex]

What are the odds of a catapult winning against a fortified phalanx on mountain? (Not that you have much choice)

Carolus

[Peaster]

Huh? Do we have that situation in our game ? I don't have any catapults and IIRC my phalanges are not on mountains. Maybe you refer to catapults in Cheb vs my archer there???

[Carolus Rex]

Originally posted by Peaster

The Americans have only about 8 techs, but this includes math and maps. Apparently, ST will attack mainly with phalanx/catapult stacks delivered by boats to mountains or hills near my cities. I assume this is what's happening at Mpondo and Hlobane.

This quote implies that you expect ST to put stacks of phalanxes and cats on mountains, no?

Originally posted by Peaster

I have to expect a boat from the West too, perhaps near Zimbabwe. I assume this invasion has been planned for at least 20 turns, meaning 1-2 more boatloads of ph/cat stacks are already on the way.

Ditto (same remark as the previous one).

Originally posted by Peaster

I rush a phalanx in Hlobane and am down to about 40g.

This implies that you have phalanxes.

Originally posted by Peaster

Math would greatly ease my defense (catapults vs catapults) and with masonry, I might be able to rush build walls in Hlobane.

This implies that you want mathematics and get cats to attack ST's stacks, hence my question about the odds of a cat winning against a phalanx in mountains. If ST attacks you with a cat, the strongest unit defends and a phalanx is stronger than a cat, no?

So how could a cat defend against a cat as you say in the quote above -> I figured you meant your cat attacking a ST phalanx (preventive strike) -> tough fight if the phalanx is stationed in mountains -> wanted to know your estimation of winning such a fight -> hence my question.

Maybe I miss something?

Carolus

[Peaster]

Oooh! Well, I think the cat would have pretty poor odds. Since I don't understand the combat formula, I couldn't say exactly. My plan was to place cats in key cities such as Hlobane and Zimbabwe (which are not adjacent to mountains) to deter ST from attacking them with cats.

I hope to seize the mountain squares adjacent to my cities before ST can do so. There are not many in my homeland. When I lose such a mountain, I must expect to lose the city (as I lost Mpondo).

But ST has attacked quicker than expected, so now I am scrambling to protect Hlobane, which he will probably attack with a catapult next turn. He has been too busy to play for a couple of days now - what bad time for the game to stall! I think my best chance to save the city [and HG] is to attack the cat/phalanx stack with every horseman/etc I've got before it can fortify.

Apparently, ST did bring in a boat from the West, as predicted. In 62AD, a stack topped by a chariot appeared near my capitol, but I am throwing warriors out, to stall it on grass until I can attack it with a spare horse or two.

If ST has more units in these stacks, or nearby, or if his cat/phal are vets, I am probably in real trouble. If I can stall him long enough to steal math or finish phil/poly, then I can probably defend.

[Carolus Rex]

Originally posted by Peaster

Oooh! Well, I think the cat would have pretty poor odds.

That's my guess to.

Originally posted by Peaster

My plan was to place cats in key cities such as Hlobane and Zimbabwe (which are not adjacent to mountains) to deter ST from attacking them with cats.

Oh, I see!

BTW, I think I have an idea of "robbing" ST of HG should the city be in danger, but I must hold my peace (for now)...

Carolus

[Peaster]

I have 3 units in the city, so he might raze it, but cannot capture it. Losing HG would cause massive rioting in my approx 18 cities and it would probably take the joy out of the game for me.

But if ST doesn't have any unseen strengths, I have about a 75 per cent chance to hold Hlobane. I have about a 50-50 chance to destroy his stack next turn with 3 horses (and with my vet archer, if ST lets it live, to attack the city instead). Also, there's a decent chance that his cat will be lost [or critically wounded] in his attack, giving me valuable time to react.

But he has not played for a week. What has happened to him?

[Carolus Rex]

Originally posted by Peaster

But he has not played for a week. What has happened to him?

Well... At least one handle that doesn't need some explaining!

Carolus

[Peaster]

While ST is busy insulating his bridge (don't ask), here is what we are waiting on - not very patiently. You probably know the situation better than I do, if ST's thread is up to date, but to me, this is the critical moment in the game.

I think both his stacks contain an unfortified phalanx, and hopefully there are only two units in each. Hlobane contains an unfortified phalanx and 2 warriors. I have three horsemen nearby. One is a vet, as is the archer. My other units are rookie warriors, one per city, just holding the flags up.

I could not move the archer into Hlobane from Bapedi as planned, because then it is first defender and the catapult kills it. Now ST has a tough choice (I hope) - to attack the archer on a hill or to attack the city.

If he has a dip, he has a terrifying third option, but in that case, I think he would have played by now! Also, he is too poor to bribe the archer without selling things.

My warriors are stalling the chariot stack. I had planned to bring a horse into this arena in 62AD, but decided Hlobane (HG) was more urgent.

ST has played part of his 62AD turn and reports that he attacked my trireme (two squares north of the chariot) but that it survived. So, I should be able to land a phalanx near the chariot next turn to stall it some more.

I think it's OK to comment on this position as long as you don't reveal anything about ST's game.