Scenario Design Contest number 5

[Panda]

With the original discussion thread lost and the replacement thread nearly off the front page, I thought it time to find out where things stood with people in a poll. This is to find out how many people are interested in designing a scenario for the contest, how many people are willing to judge the submissions and how, and if the consensus on the basis of the contest is acceptable or a turn-off, so please vote honestly.

Edit: you can cast multiple votes

[techumseh]

I've just started work on the Contest Page for the new SL site. I'm working from memory on what we decided re: the rules, so please let me know if I'm off base on anything.

1. Entries must use Civilization 2. Fantastic Worlds, Gold Edition and Test of Time are all acceptable versions.

2. The subject is India, historical or fictional - past, present or future.

3. A map of the Indian sub-continent, supplied by Mercator, MUST be used. Otherwise, contestants have a free hand.

4. Deadline for registration - Nov 30, 2005. Deadline for submissions - Dec 31, 2005. Deadline for judging - Jan 31, 2006. (I arbitrarily set these deadlines. Let me know it they're ok)

5. Chief judge is techumseh, who may be assisted by one or more assistant judges, who are not contestants. Each contestant must judge 2 other entries, assigned by the chief judge.

6. All judges must use a supplied detailed scoring key to evaluate each entry.

7. All members (including contestants) may vote for the "People's Choice Award", which is awarded separately. Voting for PCA will take place during January, 2006.

8. Any member of SL, except the official judges, may enter the contest. To qualify, a potential contestant must submit a usable tip or scenario review for the SL website, or an article for SL magazine between May1/05 and Nov 30/05. (lots of advice and editing assistance can be provided- just ask)

9. Contestants are free to use any graphics, sounds, etc. from any source. Entries using the graphics or other work of others that is not properly attributed will be disqualified.

One controversy we didn't settle was whether or not code names should be assigned. I'm for it because it adds an air of mystery that's really quite fun. There's lot's of guessing while the voting is going on. Other opinions?

In my experience, people need about 6 months to get a scenario together for a contest, which is why I used the deadline timeframes I did.

[techumseh]

I'm working on the evaluation key for judging the scenarios. I'd like to introduce a handicap system to enourage new designers. What do people think?

[rmsharpe]

I would be interested in making a scenario, because Mercator has the best maps pre-made and I don't have to worry about a short supply of units anymore

[Panda]

Originally posted by techumseh
I've just started work on the Contest Page for the new SL site. I'm working from memory on what we decided re: the rules, so please let me know if I'm off base on anything.

< snip >

6. All judges must use a supplied detailed scoring key to evaluate each entry.

Well I'd prefer a full review with its scored categories as being more meaningful for feedback, development and debate, but I can accept this as the majority view.

8. Any member of SL, except the official judges, may enter the contest. To qualify, a potential contestant must submit a usable tip or scenario review for the SL website, or an article for SL magazine between May1/05 and Nov 30/05. (lots of advice and editing assistance can be provided- just ask)

I don't recall this motion being seconded, and the entry should be open to all regardless. I thought that was the point?

One controversy we didn't settle was whether or not code names should be assigned. I'm for it because it adds an air of mystery that's really quite fun. There's lot's of guessing while the voting is going on. Other opinions?

I don't recall much discussion on this, but I agree with Mercator that they should not be used as a) the designer has to edit supporting texts to remove references to the author, b) conflicts of interest in the judging would be transparent, and c) I think we're all mature enough not to pre-judge or adveresly judge an entry because of its author.

In my experience, people need about 6 months to get a scenario together for a contest, which is why I used the deadline timeframes I did.

Yes, it's nearly May now.

[our_man]

These all sound like great suggestions, there's nothing I would add.

[Mercator]

How soon would you need the map, how big should it be and what area should it cover?

I was thinking about a map that covered approximately this area:

[Mercator]

And a Civ2 map about 43 x 96. See attachment. The attached map is only a very rough sketch.

Is that map the right size, or should it be bigger or smaller, should it cover a larger area or a smaller area?

In any case, if you all need the map pretty soon and/or if the map needs to be fairly big, I don't know if I can do it. I have other, more important obligations...

There are a few existing maps of India, but they're all rubbish, quite frankly... Except for one, but that one's rather small.

If N35t0r is interested in making the map..

[techumseh]

That looks about right. Could you economise on wasted space if you rotated the map ~45 degrees to the right?

A medium size map would be best, as the work increases in proportion to the area covered. Also the AI can only work properly on maps of a reasonable size.

How long do you need?

[kobayashi]

Maybe last year's winner should pick this year's topic or winner? Now who was it who won? His/her name eludes me for the moment.

Maybe the theme (whatever it turns out to be eventually) of the SDC contest should be narrowed somewhat to allow less subjective judging.

[Panda]

Originally posted by kobayashi
Maybe last year's winner should pick this year's topic or winner? Now who was it who won? His/her name eludes me for the moment.

Maybe the theme (whatever it turns out to be eventually) of the SDC contest should be narrowed somewhat to allow less subjective judging.

Hi Kobi,

Well the plan is to have the whole community participate in the judging, either using Tech's scoring key or by SL review format (which is inching ahead in the poll, I'm happy to see) which, while still subjective to an extent, would be objective.

The original discussion thread was lost in the crash, but I provided a link to the cached version, and there was another thread which is near the bottom of page 2. Tech simply made a coherent suggestion as to theme and organization that we've mostly agreed to, but we've broadened the theme. Did you have a preference the last time a contest was mooted? I can't remember, and can't look it up...

[techumseh]

Kobi, I hope you will enter again, but a lot of work has already been done to sort out the theme and rules. If you'd like to take over as chief judge, I'd be cool with that.

[techumseh]

Here is the temporary contest web page, with the provisional rules and proposed scoring key. Please provide comments on these promptly, as I want to finalize them. Thanks. http://www.tecumseh.150m.com/Scenari...e/SLpage6.html

[Panda]

Nice page, but you're so stubborn!

The scoring key you have still predicates a historial scenario with city/unit placement and 10% of the score available to historical scenarios only. Plus I don't think sounds should be a mandatory category as many people simply don't play with sounds and so many designers don't provide them. All in all the scoring key says to me that more mods are better, which is debateable for gameplay, and by scoring against rigid criteria penalises a scenario for what it isn't rather than award kudos for what it is.

Ditch the sound category and award the extra points to the graphics. I won't be the first to complain at that.

[techumseh]

*Historical Accuracy refers to accurately representing a historical, mythological or fictional account of India. Players may write their own fictional account, which must be included in the Readme file.

I'm not sure you read this far. I happy to take it out, but that puts those who try to represent a historical, mythological, or fiction-based scenario at a disadvantage. These scenarios are lots more work.

What if someone just puts the Zulu, Aztec and American civs on a map of India? I don't think they should get the same score as someone who at least comes up with a plausable fictional scenario.

Any ideas on how to capture that in a scoring guide? The idea is to reward those who have a coherent concept for their scenario. Maybe I should restate it, since I don't really mean historical in a strict sense.

Both sounds and graphics are given very low points in this scoring guideline, as per our earlier discussion about emphasising playability and technical skill.

True, not all designers use sounds, but not all provide Readme files and not all use events either. IMHO, the contest should cover all aspects of civ and scenario design, which includes sound.

Those are my opinions, but I am the servant of the community, and will reflect it's wishes.