Caesar Succession Game: 2.42 team SPOILER

[La Fayette]

Someone had to start the 2.42 thread before thursday, so why not me ?

PEOPLE FROM THE MGE TEAM NOT WELCOME TO READ THIS






I know that Elephant (and also the Monk, I hope ) is going to study the hidden specials very thoroughly, so I made it simple:
- build the capital away from the coast (for better protection and minimizing corruption),
- make good use of the river,
- beeline to Monarchy ("3 arrows" strat).

This "simple" start provides 4 cities in 2950 (fourth city to be built where the settler stands) and Monarchy in 2950 or 2900 (ability to switch to Monarchy in 2900).

[Bloody Monk]

La Fayette,

I have your save and will look at it for ideas about "hiddens", etc, as soon as possible. You seem to have done well with your city placement. The other river looks inviting, too. Find and note the plot of a hut (or a previous one??) and I can tell more about where to look for specials.

Point/Question: Since this is conquest, do you want to take the time to 'forest up the Specials' anyway??

Hopefully, Elle will jump in so that you are not on your own. Though, I have every confidence in your effort.

Monk

[Elephant]

Here is my save. At 3000BC I have 4 cities (one was AT), three Settlers about to complete, three Warriors, and am already in Monarchy. About 75% of the coast is explored, one Whale has been found and another is near (map analysis), and three of the cities are ports (including the capital). I am researching Maps to get ships in the water next, if we do not continue with another round of Settlers. Writing would seem wise afterwards, or Horse, to put something on those ships.

[La Fayette]

IMO Elephant's save is better than mine (grace to the lucky AT of course ).
My proposal is to keep it as our common start for the 3000-2000 millenium.

[Elephant]

I think I had Monarchy before the AT. I'll check my log...

[Bloody Monk]

Guys,

Good starts!! I concur that Elephant has the better one, though I would prefer La Fayette's spacing for that Western most city. One tile from the Capital is a bit tight. I bet you were leaving that wet shield grass tile open in case there was a special hidden there. With the hut location, it is now clear, from Hutfinder, that there are many hidden specials, but not that tile.

Is it possible to PM with an attachment?? If not, I will post a map of the hidden tiles, here. Or Elle can. I will be out of touch for at least the next three days. They are taking me to hospital in about an hour--just tests, nothing critical. Or so I am told. I think it is a substitute for the 'away for the holidays' caregivers, and they don't want me to be alone.

Merry Christmas fellas,

Monk

[La Fayette]

Merry Christmas to you, Monk

I just played the next millenium, with 3 objectives: grow (to 8/9 cities), explore (we need to know whether LH will be very useful at once or not) and research (Map, Horseback, then Trade).

2850: Empty English caravel in sight
2800: d.Map Making, r. Horseback Riding
2750: PISAE and RAVENNA
2700: HISPALIS
2550: d. H. Riding, r. Bronze W.
2400: VIROCONIUM
2300: d. BW, r. Currency
2250: English chariot close to PISAE will have Code of Laws. We say "yes" = peace with the English.
2100: LONDON (size 7) discovered (should be a nice trading partner)
2050: d. Currency, r. Trade

Summary of situation in 2000BC:
8 cities, land area = 145 000 sq. miles, 30 shields/turn, Trade within 5 turns (18 beakers + 9 gold/turn)

[Elephant]

Hope Monk is doing OK...

What is our "deadline" for the next round?

[Elephant]

A little late, but here is my 4000-3000BC log:

4000bc: Warrior west- no reveal? click reveals! strange....
...move 1st Set to river, 2nd on Silk
4000bc? found ANTIUM (2 cities lost!), switch to Silk
...Roading Silk
CHINESE START PYRAMIDS!
3950bc: 52g,8b,11t@2b/22b
...PRB 1r 16g
ZULUS START LEOS (got Invention!)
3900bc: 38g,10b,11t
3850bc: 40g,12b,11t
...Road on Silk done: 8t@3b
3800bc: 42g,15b,8t
3750bc: 44g,18b,8t
...Whale to SE! reveals some patterns, but not seed
3700bc: 46g,21b,8t
...RB Size1Settler 41g, delay 2nd city
CER BURIAL; start CodeLaws
3650bc: 7g,0b,11t@3b/33b
...Size1Sett founds CUMAE; 2nd Sett founds NEAPOLIS
3600bc: 11g,7b,5t
...reorg workers 6t@6b
3550bc: 14g,13b,5t@6b/30b
3500bc: 17g,19b,5t
...PRB 1r ***,NEAP 16g
3450bc: 4g,25b,5t
CODE LAWS; start Monarchy
3400bc: 7g,0b,7t@6b/40b
...found a hut! finishes pattern seed
3350bc: 10g,6b,7t
...Hut(18,44): POMPEII
...PRB 1r ANT 8g
3300bc: 6g,13b,6t
...ANTIUM FBF
Tacitus MOST ADVANCED: #7=Romans
3250bc: 10g,20b,6t
...ANT size 2, chg to Silk
3200bc: 15g,29b,5t@9b
3150bc: 20g,38b,5t
...chg 6.0.4 8t@5b
...***,NEAP FBF
MONARCHY; start Maps
POP>100K
3100bc: 29g,4b,10t@6b/55b
...CUMAE&NAEAPOLIS size 2, reorg workers
...chg 4.0.6 7t@9b
REVOLT
Egyptians start Pyramids
MONARCHY 3.0.7 5t@12b
3050bc: 29g,4b,5t
3000bc: 34g,16b,5t

I was trying to do LF's 3 Arrow strategy using the river and the Silk, with as fast an ICS as I could justify if conditions did not look threatening. After I figured out the specials pattern I looked at hidden ones, but I'm thinking leave that for when we need to develop more shield production. After Monarchy I aimed for Maps to start ship production, but when I did the next leg I realized I could have put that off a bit in favor of Bronze or Horse or Writing, which would help the PRBing more.

[Elephant]

Map of home island hidden specials (marked as Fur or MuskOx):

[Elephant]

For my next leg, I wanted to continue the ICS, do a little exploring around the island, and start toward Trade. Seeing a few other civs in the neighborhood changed my priorities toward better defenses, exploring and diplomacy. I figured one advantage we have over the MGE team is better and more consistent potential relations with AI civs, so why not exploit that until we decide to switch over to nasty? As it turned out, I got Navigation from the English, peace with them, the Mongols and the Zulus, 11 cities and 2/3 of the way to Trade. One city has started on a Wonder (Lighthouse, but we can change later), and my three ships are Caravels. I suspect the Mongols and Zulus have some advanced techs like Magnetism and Ironworking, but they were unwilling to trade. I did get their maps, however - but the English refused to divulge. They seem to be southeast of us, and at least two cities have been on and off the TOP5 list. Happiness has been a problem, too, due to number of cities. I was hoping one of the AI civs might have Pottery but no luck (despite the English having Seafaring). A bit of time and another gift might get something out of the western neighbors.

Here's the log:
Chinese near Pyramids
1st Settler CUMAE
2950bc: 25g,25b,7t/55b
Pyramids in Beijing; Egypt abandon
Settlers ANTIUM
2900bc: 29g,33b,7t
...found PISAE on river
...POMPEII FBF
Settlers NEAPOLIS
2850bc: 34g,43b,6t
...POMPEII size 2
...unladen English Caravel off south coast! (English have Nav?)
(move Warrior into Neapolis, recall 3rd)
Caravel moves east...
2800bc: 39g,53b,6t
...RB Warrior PISAE 13g
...RB 1r ANTIUM 13g
MAP MAKING; start Writing (vs Bro/Hor/Mas/Myst/Pot/War)
2750bc: 18g,8b,7t@10b/66b
...found RAVENNA with Whale
...RB 1r CUMAE 4g, 1r NEAP 13g
...ANTIUM, NEAPOLIS FBF
Egypt start HangGardens! (drat)
VIKINGS DESTROYED BY MONGOLS!!!
2700bc: 8g,25b,4t@17b
...ANT,NEAP size 2
...CUMAE FBF
English start Colossus! (hmmm)
2650bc: 15g,43b,4t
...CUMAE size 2
...PRB 1r RAV 8g
2600bc: 14g,61b,5t/78b
...PRB 1r PISAE 8g
Settlers POMPEII
WRITING; start Bronze (vs Hor/Lit/Mas/Myst/POT/War)
2550bc: 13g,0b,6t/105b
...found HISALIS (2x black Whales)
Empty Mongol Trireme north of ANTIUM!
2500bc: 20g,19b,6t
English Chariot greets POMP Settler: Receptive King Henry:
6Sp,dem Wri(no),peace,Recep,exch Wri for BRONZE,CoL for NAVIGATION (also got Hor/Myst/Sea/Wheel-but not Pot?), maps?no,bye
restart Currency (vs Hor/Lit/Mas/Myst/Pot/War)
ships upgraded
Mongol Tri goes northward
2450bc: 27g,38b,8t/135b INADEQUATE
...found VIRCONIUM by Whale
...RB 1r POMPEII,HISPALIS 13g ea
...POMPEII FBF
(no "remove troops"?)
2400bc: 9g,61b,6t@23b
...1st Caravel from ANTIUM goes westward along coast
...Cord Eng: 6Sp,withdraw?yes
...RAVENNA FBF
POP>200K
2350bc: 17g,84b,6t
...both Whales for HISPALIS revealed
English chariot still on SE knob: city there?
Settlers CUMAE
2300bc: 25g,105b,7t
...Hastings on SE island (hut-AT)
Mongols start Colossus; empty Tri north of POMPEII
2250bc: 35g,127b,7t
...CUMAE FBF
Mongol Trireme attacks POMPEII- Warrior wins
Settlers RAVENNA
CURRENCY; start Trade (vs Hor/Lit/Mas/Myst/Pot/War)
2200bc: 36g,13?b,8t@22b/170b
...found LUGDUNUM on Whale
...discovered Bokhara! Warrior ashore: Icy Emp Ghengis,4Sp,dem Nav
for peace,Neut;exch?no,gift Mon,Cur,Wri,CoL to Worsh,sh maps,end
(WOW: Zulus south of Mong, Trondheim westward!)
(6 cities; hmmm: Mongols have Horse&Galleon?)
...Cord Eng: 6Sp,dem Cur(no),gift Cur to Worsh,NOMORE!(want map)
Settler in PISAE
2150bc: 45g,35b,8t
...some RBing
...Enth Eng: 6Sp,sh maps?no,end
...PISAE FBF, start on Wonder
2100bc: 35g,60b,7t@25b
...found LUTETIA on southern canal spot
...VIRCON FBF
loaded Mongol Frigate approaches north coast!
2050bc: 14g,86b,7t
...Warrior ashore, Uncoop Queen Zulu: 3Sp,war Mong?no,dem Nav for
peace,Neut,exch?no,gift Wri,Cur to Worsh,sh maps,end
(6 cities,Legion+Pike,Trireme)
...ANTIUM(oops),HISPALIS FBF
2000bc: 17g,113b,6t@27b
...found BYZANTIUM
...RAVENNA FBF

And the save:

[La Fayette]

Well done Elephant ! and a nice log too (BTW what does FBF mean?).

Yet I prefer my own save at 2000BC, mostly because Navigation is a trade killer.

If we choose my save, we could build a shipchain between Viroconium and London while we finish researching Trade (5 turns), and also finish linking all our cities by road.
Then my calculations tell me that the Base Bonus of any delivery to London should be better than 20.
With 3 multipliers (foreign = 2, island = 2, early = 2), this would mean a bonus higher than 160 for delivery of any UNDEMANDED good to London (very close to the 200 science cap).

Dear partners, Elephant, Bloody Monk, Skrobism, please let me know what you think.

[Elephant]

Jeepers, I thought this is a Conquest game...

I was not thinking about bonus payoffs, I was thinking about getting better ships (which negates the need for Lighthouse and carry 50% more) and opening up the possibility of doing Magellans as our second Wonder (after MarcoPolo). It also allowed earlier contact with the Mongols and the Zulus, who seem to have even better techs (I saw Galleons and Frigates from the Mongols). The down side of my save is that I probably overbuilt on cities - I was spending more time building and juggling martial law units that anything else at the end.

One unintended benefit of the parallel path method of play is that one player can learn things about the map and AI that is unrevealed in the chosen starting point, permitting future actions based on that knowledge even though it is still "black". Interesting possibilities...

I'll take a closer look at your save this evening.

BTW, "FBF" is shorthand for "FoodBoxFull" - the city will grow next turn, which was a big problem toward the end there. I wish F4 would put a star or something next to those cities...

[Peaster]

"grace to the lucky AT " - and what is "AT"?

[Elephant]

Advanced Tribe - when a Hut pops into a city. Since the huts and specials are fixed in relation to each other, it is rarely a site with decent specials, but at least this one had ocean access and some nearby rivers. Given a choice, I would have rather had a Nomad, which I would have planted on the river next-door. But huts never yield Nomads on Grass or Plains unless the surrounding terrain is really bad.