PANZER BATTLES on the RIVER CHIR!

[Eivind IV]

Originally posted by Kobra
Was it because it was too easy or becasue I'm the best damn panzer commandor of our days?...I don't know

Or just an ass!? Look below:


Ok, before you reply, I just read the readme fully and more thoroughly, and it clearly says:

If you are playing solo as the Germans, house rule # 1; you cannot cross the river.
You must stand on the defense on the western bank of the Chir. It is too easy as
the human German player to focus on the 3 Russian cities and wipe them out, thus
eliminating the Russian player without having to defeat him militarily. While this
strategy might work in the game, it certainly is unrealistic to think that the German re-occupation of a few Ukrainian hamlets would make the Red Army evaporate.

I've always read the readme before playing, but I didn't read it thoroughly enough. I think I'll have to replay

It should be noted though, that I sent recon panzer grendiers out first, and it was only empty steps ahead of me...hence my "bold" move

[Exile]

I've played it some too, and apparently I need to increase the Russian numbers slightly. Or increase their reinforcement schedule. There's still plenty of space in the events file.

Good idea about the carrier flag. I'll do that.

No idea what to do about the message. I'll take a look and see if something can be done.

[jim panse]

@ Phenix: Say, would you tell me when you are done so I can update the SL Civgroup News then???

Keep up that work

[fairline]

Here's a new units file Phenix. If you want to use a bmp rather than a gif, the former is in the zip in the next post.

I've re-done most of the armour; they were far too garish . Changed the Pz38t graphic for a Panzer II one and replaced the Nemo trucks with halftracks. The Russians used the M3/M5 halftrack, so I've used this as their motorised infantry. The Wespe is anachronistic - it should be a Bison or Grille at this stage of the War, but WTF, it'll do.

Comments about the scenario: it plays nicely on deity. You should rename the SU-85 to SU-122 (the SU-85 was later in the war); rename the terrain as well ('desert' sounds a bit odd on the Eastern Front!). I didn't receive any armour replacements when I'd discovered that tech BTW. I also lost a battery but still received shells every turn - not much you can do about that I suppose... Overall - nice work

EDIT: typo

[fairline]

The units.bmp in this zip:

[Case]

Originally posted by fairline
The Russians used the M3/M5 halftrack, so I've used this as their moterised infantry.

Are you sure that the Soviets were using halftracks in meaningful numbers in late 1942? I didn't think that the mass shipments of US trucks and other vehicles got underway until 1943...

Given the significant difference between the capabilities of halftrack mounted infantry and truck mounted infantry, I'd be rather cautious about including these units.

[fairline]

You're probably right Case, but to be honest I couldn't be bothered to draw a truck. I wasn't suggesting changing the stats of the motorised Russians BTW.

[Exile]

Thanks Gareth, the new files are superb.

About historical accuracy;

1.) Yep, the Russians probably didn't have too many halftracks at this stage of the war, but these are elements of a mechanized corps so the graphic works.

2.) The Wespe is a little ahead of its time in this scenario and you're correct, it should be a GW38 or some other early SP artillery unit. But the Wespe looks so good, lol. Let's leave it.

3.) My info says that any Russian SP guns at this time were probably SU-76s rather than the later units, but the SU-85 was the earliest of the low-slung hull designs that appeared in several models later in the war, and it certainly appeared in regimental size before the ISU units, which were considerably upgunned.

4.) Yes the terrain is mislabeled. I might do something about that, but I supposed it was superfluous due to the fact that the terrain has no resources. If it's worthless, who cares what it's called? I'll change it to "winter" or something like that. lol.

My problem right now is with the 3 events that are supposed to place a Russian unit on the squares where the German artillery is sited. The event is set up so that, whenever the artillery units are destroyed, a special Russian defensive unit appears on those squares in order to prevent any further appearances of more artillery shells. Unfortuneately, these 3 events don't seem to work, and I can't discover why not.

Everything else, though, is done and ready for release. It's only this event problem that has hung me up. Here is the first one. If anyone can spot the problem, speak up.

@IF
UNITKILLED
unit=A Battery
attacker=Russians
defender=Germans
@THEN
CREATEUNIT
unit=Sentries
owner=Russians
veteran=no
homecity=none
locations
17,17
endlocations
JUSTONCE
@ENDIF

[Pablostuka]

Brilliant project idea, Exile, I was missing something like that since FMK canceled his Stalingrad project

I think Case is right. I would include a ZIS truck. maybe this one can be useful (with proper 'winterization')...

[Exile]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

I sure would like to see that Stalingrad map.



And thanks, Pablo. Nice unit graphic.

[Pablostuka]

Here is a link to the unfinished Stalingrad scenario. FMK allowed me to post it .

http://www.cdgroup.org/forums/tbs/civ2/viewtopic.php?t=122

[Exile]

Wow.

Thanks again, Pablo. I looked at the Stalingrad scenario and it's a very impressive piece of work. Incredibly detailed and very much a grand tactical study. After so much work, I'm mystified why Klesh didn't finish it up. Not sufficiently compulsive, I suppose.

The map, while startlingly detailed and obviously thoroughly researched, is not quite what I'm searching for. More on that below.

This CHIR scen is designed to be a very short, sharp tactical fight with limited units and limited time. It shouldn't take much more than an hour to play, if that long. It's a trial run for a more ambitious operational-level project that I'm entertaining as present, a Stalingrad campaign scenario of my own. My approach is on a somewhat larger scale than Klesh's. My aim is to "insert" the CHIR battle situation into the larger framework of the Stalingrad campaign, creating the entire scenario using the systems developed in CHIR. My intent here is to attempt to recreate, in Civ2, the account by Von Mellenthin of the overall campaign, using the scale to simulate the decisions made at the operational level--the movement and employment of divisional/brigade strength units.

So I'm still searching for a map.

[curtsibling]

Sounds like a masterwork for the future!

That planned project could be the one that totally underlines
Exile's name into the CIV2 histories...Or more so already.

[techumseh]

Exile, I've never been able to make an MGE/FW event work in which a unit of one civ is created in the same spot where the trigger unit of another civ was just eliminated. And I have tried, believe it or not. Try a terrain change event first.

Or, um, in Test of Time, you can turn events off. Sorry.

[fairline]

Tank geek mode...

Originally posted by Exile
3.) My info says that any Russian SP guns at this time were probably SU-76s rather than the later units, but the SU-85 was the earliest of the low-slung hull designs that appeared in several models later in the war, and it certainly appeared in regimental size before the ISU units, which were considerably upgunned.

You're right in saying that the SU-76 was the first WW2 Russian SP gun (around the tail end of 1942 I think), but the SU-122 was the first of the SP assault guns based on the T-34 chassis (production started in December '42 and it was in action over that Winter). It mounted a 122mm howitzer and was intended as an assault gun; the later SU-85 wasn't in production until the second half of '43 and was fitted with the T-34-85 gun when it became available to make it a dedicated tank-killer. Later still a 100mm AT version was introduced.

The much heavier SU-152 (based on the KV-1 chassis) and ISU-122 and ISU152 (based on the IS/JS chassis) appeared after the SU-122. The graphic I drew is for an SU-122