Troy

[Leonidas]

Originally posted by fairline


That kinda depended on a number of things, and varied from city state to city state: Athens was an entirely mysogenistic society, so women had absolutely no rights or freedoms. 'Democracy' applied only to one section of society, and didn't mean much if you were a slave. Lakonia, by contrast, afforded more rights to women but was a dual monarchy with little or no 'democracy'. It wasn't much cop if you happened to be a Messenian Helot either . Many other Greek city states were oligarchies rather than Athenian-style democracies as well.

BTW, Troy would make a good scenario Leonides

There was quite a mix of political institutions in Greece at the time. I guess it didn't bother the Greeks as long they were calling the shots and not some other ruler.

It's interesting that each Greek City State didn't even want any other Greek (city state) ruling over them, let alone some foreign ruler.

Talk about individualism. . .

I agree it would be interesting to see more ancient scenarios: Trojan War; Battle of Thermopylae, etc. . .

[Exile]

Well . . . .

Classical history isn't my period, but . . . .

I have read translations of many of the classics. Thucydides, Herodotus, Plutarch, Suetonius, Tacitus, and Livy (not to mention fragments by sallust, polybius, and a few others.)

One thing we should keep firmly in mind when it comes to so-called "classical" Greek history--they wrote it.

So any critical reading and interpretation of the period must take into account BIAS.

If you read the Roman authors, and then between the lines of the Greeks, what becomes clear is that the Greeks were primarily PIRATES. Their vaunted political "experiments" very closely resemble the ad hoc political organizations of the 17th century pirates. Too closely to ignore. Their polities were built on widespread SLAVERY, one of the primary reasons why, even though a Greek managed to create a functional steam engine, they never managed industrialization--manpower was easier to procure.

The histories must be taken with more than just a grain of salt--more like a pound-size brick. Many of these authors quote speeches by individuals that lived many years before the writers' times, and that word-for-word over hundreds of words' length.

If you dismiss the heroic trappings, and look only at the essentials of each of the stories, what becomes clear is that the Greeks were very effective predators, destroying or taking over almost anything they came across. The stories themselves are chock full of internal strife and bloodletting that would make Saddam Hussein look like a girl scout by comparison.

The Romans made a point, in Pompey's time, of eradicating piracy in the Mediterranean, and most of those pirates were located east of Italy, in the Aegean, Adriatic, and eastern Mediterranean seas. The Romans weren't telling the greeks' story--they had their own to tell, and made clear what was happening in those seas at that period in time.

The Greek mainland was not a hospitable place to live, even in the classical period and was not able to support a large population at any time. The only people who lived there were people forced to live there. They were forced to live there because they were hiding. They were pirates, preyed upon the Phoenician, Carian, Luvian, and Egpytian shipping, and hid out in the Aegean, which, at the time, was distant and relatively unknown. The edge of the world. The Greeks fought among themselves like rats in a basket, though their "wars" were little more than skirmishes even in terms of the period. I chalk much of the grandiosity of the Greek authors up to exaggeration-for-promotion's sake.

The so-called "Trojan War" reads, if you get at the essentials, as simply an overblown raid on a particularly rich target--a Luvian polity in the far west of Anatolia. Most of the backdrop of the story, AFAIAC, is simply good storytelling. 10 year siege, Helen, 1000 ships, etc.

Moreover, the ACTUAL destruction of "Troy" occurred at the end of the bronze age. During this period, several elements should be noted and their obvious relationships considered.

1.) A new form of burial was practiced suddenly. This is the urnfield culture, and their origin was in central Europe. This culture spread quickly at the end of the 2nd millenium, moving mostly southward.

2.) One-by-one, the older Mycenean fortresses suddenly began to erect fortifications. These proved futile, however, for they were all taken and burned. ALL of them. "A dark age" ensued in the aftermath.

3.) The Hittite empire collapsed under attacks by invaders from the north and west.

4.) The Egyptian monarchy of the 19th dynasty fought off at least two attempts by "Peoples of the Sea" who had first been employed as mercenaries, then came as invaders. The "lukka" "Sherden" and allies.

5.) Cyprus was taken and its fortresses burned and destroyed.

These events occurred in the same period as historians locate the destruction of the deeper Troy VIa fortress. THIS was the "Trojan war" and had very little to do with anything in classical Greece.

Above all, keep in mind;

THE GREEKS WROTE THE HISTORIES THAT SURVIVE.

Of course they exalted their own roles and downplayed the roles of rival peoples.

[Leonidas]

Exile:

You seem to be mixing in widely different periods of time and peoples.

The Greeks = pirates??

Pompey defeated the Cilician pirates. They were a group of buccaneers in the eastern Mediterranean world in the late second and early first centuries BCE.

Cilicia is the ancient name of southern Turkey, not Greece.

By the second century Greece itself had become a spent force. . .

You seem to be mixing in 2004 sensibilities with 5th century BC cultural practice. It was customary for victorious peoples in ancient times to take slaves - the Romans also did it. . .

Do pirates build huge buildings, statutes, etc?





Do pirates create great works of art, literature, philosophy, political institutions, etc?

Greek Classical Period - “The Golden Age”

Pericles (a great Athenian leader, 460 BC - 429 BC) stamped the Classical Period with the seal of his personality and, despite the horror of war, the flowering of culture in this period was unique in history.

The tragedies of Aeschylus, Sophocles and Euripides; the comedies of Aristophanes, the histories of Herodotus and Thucydides, the unique personality of Socrates, the Parthenon, the sculptures, Pheidias and so many other artists, the wonderful pottery with its red designs - they all constitute a group of people,ideas, creators and works by which Greece established its eternal fame.

Plato and Aristotle pronounced their philosophical systems and sought the revival of the ideal of the “republic” while Isocrates vainly called upon the Greeks to unite.


Did the Greek states fight among themselves?

Yes.

But mankind has been fighting wars since time began.

Not sure where you did your Greek studies, but I would suggest a re-read of some of the better history books written about ancient Greece. . .

Cheers!

[Exile]

Leonidas,

You're doing precisely what I warned against both at the beginning and the end of my last statement.

The information you're putting forward is from the Greeks themselves. Of course they're not going to admit being ruthless, marauding predators. They are going to exalt themselves and their roles in history.

The role of the historian is not simply to take, at face value, the documents at hand, but to interpret.

Non-Greek sources indicate plainly that the greeks culture and heritage were those of piracy and plunder. Look up the term "cultural history." I'm not going to define it here, but will use it briefly.

Jason & the argonauts; sea-borne raiders stealing the "golden fleece," from "Colchis," a remote region in north-eastern anatolia.

The Illiad; the seige and destruction of a north-western Anatolian polity by sea-borne raiders.

And yes, pirates, having acquired wealth by plunder, can certainly build monumental structures. Where would the necessary wealth to undertake these building projects come from? Mainland Greece? More than unlikely.

Much of our image of "Greek" society is actually derived from the "Hellenistic" period of the Macedonians, who spoke Greek, but were not a part of the piratical maritime complex further south.

I have to ask here; where is the precise historical time verification of the monumental architecture of mainland Greece? You can't carbon14 date marble and limestone. Many of these structures were created after Alexander's conquests, when the wealth of the known world poured into Macedonian coffers. Much of what the Romans admired and termed "Greek" was actually post-Greek Hellenistic culture.

In terms of skepticism, I'm not at all sure that I believe everything that was written by Greek authors from the classical period. Neither should you. ONLY where archeology can accurately VERIFY that the written sources are on target, should we accept that stuff. WAAAAY too much of it is just frankly unbelievable. Collegiate textbooks and supplementary readings (not to mention the material that is standard in grad-level seminars and colloquia) do NOT include the classical Greek writers, and if they do, are careful to point out that these sources are not entirely reliable.

Relying on these sources, accepting them uncritically, is not practical unless you're a non-academic.

[Leonidas]

Originally posted by Exile
Leonidas,

You're doing precisely what I warned against both at the beginning and the end of my last statement.

The information you're putting forward is from the Greeks themselves. Of course they're not going to admit being ruthless, marauding predators. They are going to exalt themselves and their roles in history.

The role of the historian is not simply to take, at face value, the documents at hand, but to interpret.

Non-Greek sources indicate plainly that the greeks culture and heritage were those of piracy and plunder. Look up the term "cultural history." I'm not going to define it here, but will use it briefly.

Jason & the argonauts; sea-borne raiders stealing the "golden fleece," from "Colchis," a remote region in north-eastern anatolia.

The Illiad; the seige and destruction of a north-western Anatolian polity by sea-borne raiders.

And yes, pirates, having acquired wealth by plunder, can certainly build monumental structures. Where would the necessary wealth to undertake these building projects come from? Mainland Greece? More than unlikely.

Much of our image of "Greek" society is actually derived from the "Hellenistic" period of the Macedonians, who spoke Greek, but were not a part of the piratical maritime complex further south.

I have to ask here; where is the precise historical time verification of the monumental architecture of mainland Greece? You can't carbon14 date marble and limestone. Many of these structures were created after Alexander's conquests, when the wealth of the known world poured into Macedonian coffers. Much of what the Romans admired and termed "Greek" was actually post-Greek Hellenistic culture.

In terms of skepticism, I'm not at all sure that I believe everything that was written by Greek authors from the classical period. Neither should you. ONLY where archeology can accurately VERIFY that the written sources are on target, should we accept that stuff. WAAAAY too much of it is just frankly unbelievable. Collegiate textbooks and supplementary readings (not to mention the material that is standard in grad-level seminars and colloquia) do NOT include the classical Greek writers, and if they do, are careful to point out that these sources are not entirely reliable.

Relying on these sources, accepting them uncritically, is not practical unless you're a non-academic.

Well, I agree that some of the primary sources should not be read or taken at face value. They contain good general knowledge, but they also contain many errors.

I also agree about the time period of when some of the buildings were built.

However, if we define the Greeks as being pirates, then we must call every people pirates.

The Greeks were not any more ruthless or passionate or evil than any other nation of the past 4,000 years. Heck, just take a look at Nazi Germany in the 20th Century.

The Greeks did what was customary in the 5th Century: women had no vote; slaves were kept; and most males were put to the sword once a city was captured.

Most nations back then, did these activities.

Did the Greeks take plunder? Of course. So did every other nation and empire.

It must be remembered that Athens in particular had a huge fleet and traded widely.

However, to call the ancient Greeks pirates, I think, is being somewhat harsh.

I can picture Themistocles on a Trireme as it approaches a Persian fleet:

Themistocles is clothed in fine white Linen. He has a parrot on his right shoulder, a patch on his left eye, and he is hobbling around on a peg-leg.

"Avast there, me mateys," yells Themistocles. "There be the Persian fleet. Aaarrgghh. Those ships be carrying pieces of eight, I'll wager."

Themistocles hobbles around on his peg-leg, while the parrot squawks out complaints about living on board a Trireme.

"Aye, shiver me timbers," he growls. "We need that Persian gold to fill our coffers. And we need their wenches to keep our beds warm at night."

Turning to the crew, he yells: "Make sail, lads. Prepare the cannons. Boarding parties make ready. Today, we fight!"

The crew lets out a wild cheer. . .

[Exile]

LOL!



That's pretty good. I like it.

Here's the final rebuttal and then I'll let this field lie fallow;

Historians of the period will tell you that, for the Greeks, trade and piracy were intimately linked. Very often the Greeks sized up a place upon encountering it. If the local defenses were too weak--plunder and slave raiding. If the defenses were too strong--trade. This was NOT the practice of other maritime traders in the Mediterranean, either in the bronze age or the classical period. And the vast majority of what we think of as classical Greek literature and culture was "loosely based" on prior cultures in the ancient near east. If you look closely at Hittite, Sumerian, Phoenician, and Egyptian myths, you will find the roots of so-called "Greek" mythology. (Personally, I think the mythologies of all these people are at least a couple thousand years older than we presently think.)

"Beware of Greeks bearing gifts." --Illiad

[Gagliaudo]

@Exile:
Hey, man...
perhaps "Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" (Beware of Greeks bearing gifts" is from 'Aeneis', not Iliade...
Aeneas was narrating Laocoon's doubts about that wooden horse... (in the movie is Parides that has doubts.... What a pity that at that time - of the horse - Parides had been already killed... W.Pedersen took VERY VERY freedom in inspiring himself from homeric tales... )
However, Trojan Horse didn't appear in Iliade ...
Have a good time you all !!!

[Leonidas]

Re: LOL!

Originally posted by Exile


That's pretty good. I like it.

Here's the final rebuttal and then I'll let this field lie fallow;

Historians of the period will tell you that, for the Greeks, trade and piracy were intimately linked. Very often the Greeks sized up a place upon encountering it. If the local defenses were too weak--plunder and slave raiding. If the defenses were too strong--trade. This was NOT the practice of other maritime traders in the Mediterranean, either in the bronze age or the classical period. And the vast majority of what we think of as classical Greek literature and culture was "loosely based" on prior cultures in the ancient near east. If you look closely at Hittite, Sumerian, Phoenician, and Egyptian myths, you will find the roots of so-called "Greek" mythology. (Personally, I think the mythologies of all these people are at least a couple thousand years older than we presently think.)

"Beware of Greeks bearing gifts." --Illiad

I agree with your idea that many of the myths and stories are much older than we realize.

It is quite interesting that many of the Greeks who came up with great ideas and inventions had either visited the Great Library at Alexanderia or had been a librarian there. It was even rumoured that the library contained a two volume encyclopedia of the world before the Flood.

There is so much we simply do not know. Heck, there are hundreds of years of Egyptian history that are completely unknown to us.

As to your basic premise that the Greeks were pirates: I still think it is an unduly harsh epitaph to hang on them.

They were not perfect by any means. However, for such a small country, ancient Greece has given to the world many, many things. . .

Cheers!

[fairline]

Your mixing and matching cultures yourself there Leonidas The Great Library was Ptolemaic, built by the successors of Alexander the Great, so was Hellenistic rather than Egyptian....

[fairline]

Re: Re: LOL!

Originally posted by Leonidas
They were not perfect by any means. However, for such a small country, ancient Greece has given to the world many, many things. . .

While I agree with your analysis of their art and culture, ancient Greece was never a single country, but rather a collection of very disparate city states, some of which traced their lineage back to the Mycenaeans whilst others were descended from the barbarous Dorians. Yes Athens was the epicentre of classical culture, but Lakonia was little more than a fascist state which existed to wage war.

Exile has a point too: it's interesting that the fearsome Sea Peoples recorded by the Jews and Egyptians (amongst them the infamous Phillistines) were probably Mycenaean pirates The truth behind the myth of the Trojan Wars was almost certainly a war of aggression by Mycenae on the rich trading city for plunder.

[Leonidas]

Originally posted by fairline
Your mixing and matching cultures yourself there Leonidas The Great Library was Ptolemaic, built by the successors of Alexander the Great, so was Hellenistic rather than Egyptian....

Actually, I was expresing two separate thoughts in the above paragraphs.

The Library of Alexandria contained hundreds of thousands of books gathered from all over the known world, and were written by many other peoples other then by Greeks or Egyptians.

So many of the ideas those ancient Greeks gathered from those books were not Greek in origin.

Cheers!

[Leonidas]

Re: Re: Re: LOL!

Originally posted by fairline


While I agree with your analysis of their art and culture, ancient Greece was never a single country, but rather a collection of very disparate city states, some of which traced their lineage back to the Mycenaeans whilst others were descended from the barbarous Dorians. Yes Athens was the epicentre of classical culture, but Lakonia was little more than a fascist state which existed to wage war.

Yes, I know.

But it's much simpler writing "ancient Greece", rather than "all the individual city states which made up the territory that we refer to as Greece."

Exile has a point too: it's interesting that the fearsome Sea Peoples recorded by the Jews and Egyptians (amongst them the infamous Phillistines) were probably Mycenaean pirates The truth behind the myth of the Trojan Wars was almost certainly a war of aggression by Mycenae on the rich trading city for plunder.

A pirate is someone who commits robbery on the high seas (dictionary definition).

So piracy is usually reserved for acts by people that are not sanctioned by the state; pirates are outside the state.

So a pirate is someone who robs at sea or plunders the land from the sea without having a commission from any sovereign nation.

Pirates do not create culture, works of art, great literature, music, cities, or great monuments. . .

When a nation fights for plunder, it is called war.

Every nation and city state since time began has fought over plunder, gold, land, trade, etc, etc. . .

The Myceneans, I am sure, weren't any different, especially if they had access to the sea.

And, I am sure there were Mycenean pirates, just as we have bank robbers today.

I also don't doubt that other peoples claimed that all Myceneans were pirates. After all, your enemies will not want to write flattering things about you or your country.

Heck, look at the British and French Wars in the 18th Century - they both fought naval battles at sea, and sought rich lands in the New World. Should we call all British and French people pirates too?

If everyone who travels by sea and seeks plunder is a pirate, then that would include practically every nation throughout history

Avast there, mateys!

[Leonidas]

As to the Sea Peoples being Mycenean Pirates.

At about the time of the Sea Peoples' invasions (circa 1200 BC), Mycenean supremacy ended, and about 100 years later the Dorians invaded from the north and replaced the Mycenean civilization.

Scholars have debated this issue for years. But no one truly knows who those Sea peoples were.

Even the ancient Egyptians (who were invaded by the Sea Peoples) did not know who these Sea Peoples were.

If the Myceneans had been these Sea Peoples (pirates), they would have been easily identifiable by the other cutures existing at that time.

More than likely, the Sea Peoples were part of the huge migrations of unknown peoples that occurred in this part of the world during this time.


Sea Peoples

Sea Peoples is the term used in ancient Egyptian records of ship-faring raiders who drifted into the eastern shores of the Mediterranean and attempted to enter Egyptian territory during the late 19th dynasty, and especially year 5 of Rameses III of the 20th Dynasty.


Historic Records

The earliest mention of the Sea People proper is in an inscription of the Egyptian king Merneptah, whose rule is usually dated from 1213 BC to 1204 BC. Merneptah states that in the fifth year of his reign (1208 BC) he defeated an invasion of an allied force of Libyans and the Sea People, killing 6,000 soldiers and taking 9,000 prisoners.

About 20 years later the Egyptian king Ramses III was forced to deal with another invasion of the Sea Peoples, this time allied with the Philistines. In the mortuary temple he built in Thebes Ramses describes how, despite the fact "no land could stand before" the forces of the Sea People and that they swept through "Hatti, Kode, Carchemish, Arzawa, and Alashiya" destroying their cities, he defeated them in a sea battle. He gives the names of the tribes of the Sea People as including: the Peleset, the Tjeker, the Shekelesh, the Denyen, and the Weshesh. However, because this list is identical to the one Merneptah included in his victory inscription and because Ramses also describes several fictitious victories on his temple walls, some Egyptologists believe that he never actually fought the Sea Peoples, but only claimed the victories of Merneptah as his own - a common ancient Egyptian practice.

A Sea People appear in another set of records problematically dated around the early 12th century BC. Ammurapi, the last king of Ugarit (c.1191 BC - 1182 BC) received a letter from the Hittite king Suppliluliuma II warning him about the "Shikalayu who live on boats" who are perhaps the same people as the Shekelesh mentioned in Merneptah's list. It may be relevant that shortly after he received this communication, Ammurapi was overthrown and the city of Ugarit sacked, never to be inhabited again.


Theories about the Sea Peoples

The abrupt end of several civilizations in the decades traditionally dated around 1200 BC have caused many ancient historians to hypothesize that the Sea People caused the collapse of the Hittite, Mycenaean and Mittani kingdoms. However, Marc Van De Mieroop and others have argued against this theory on several points. Grimal argues that the kingdoms of the Mittani, Assyria, and Babylon were more likely destroyed by a group who dwelled on the edges of the settled lands called by the Akkadian word habiru. Another argument Grimal makes is that the attempted Sea People invasion of Egypt that Ramses III foiled is now seen as nothing more than a minor skirmish, the records of his victories on his temple walls being greatly exaggerated. Though it is clear from the archeological excavations that Ugarit, Ashkelon and Hazor were destroyed about this time, Carchemish was not and other cities in the area such as Byblos and Sidon survived unscathed.

Another theory concerning the Sea People, based on their recorded names, is that they may have been formed of people involved in the Greek migrations of this period, either the Greek-speaking invaders (identifying the "Ekwesh" with the Achaeans and the "Denyen" with the Dananoi, an ancient name for the Greek people). This theory implies that the Philistines were part of this Greek-speaking confederacy.

Lack of definite information about these ancient forerunners of the Vikings is the chief cause of their mystery, rather than anything concerning their intrinsic nature. As abruptly as they enter history, the Sea People leave it.


More Information:

The Sea Peoples are one of the enigmas of ancient history, though their culture has perhaps been the single most influencial legacy in the evolution of civilization. Pirates, noted for their advanced weaponry most commonly identified as Phoenicians (Puntians/Puntites), they are said to have first appeared ruling Tylos/Dilmun (Bahrain) in the Arabian Gulf as early as the end of the 4th millennium BC perhaps stranded there following severe flooding in Mesopotamia. They maintained trade routes on the coasts around the Arabian peninsula from that time until the Islamic period but are most famous for over-running Egypt & the eastern Mediterranean around 900 BC (Revised Chronology) or 1200 BC (Traditional Chronology). The collection of port city kingdoms they occupied was known as Phoenicia or Sidonia from the name of the most importan conquest Sidon.

Alternative theories on their origin include a "Kult-Bund" i.e. groups from different nations partak ing in a common culture/way-of-life some originating in Greece and others Crete, Asia Minor (Anatolia), Libya and Asia, moving through the mediterranean and Arabian islands and coasts though never venturing far inland. They were certainly closely connected with coastal Arabs and the extent of Islam from Morocco to Indonesia may be a reflection of the trade routes they controlled/frequented. They were a curly-haired people who wore feathered head dresses similar to those used by the Iban in Sarawak and used high-prowed "Serpent" ships, later adopted by the Nordics and may have been the source for the "Fomor" in Hiberian (Irish) myth. Little is known of their original language, though Aku/Ego may have been the original term for self-reference. Ancestrally, the Maltese & Lebanese both have connections to them.

They are supposed to have called their own homeland Ahhiyawa while the Bible has been interpreted as saying they hailed from Caphtor.

Nations which have been grouped with Sea-peoples include:

Danuna
Sherden
Tutsha
Lukka
Sheklesh
Tjekker
Palistines (subjected)
Calu****es (subjected)
Zidonians (subjected)

[Exile]

*sigh*

Leonidas,

These sources you're using are unfamiliar to me. If they are legit historians, they should be.

Here;

This is the authoritative source on this topic. It is the best current anthology of European archeology. See Chapter 8, The Collapse of the Aegean Civilization at the End of the Bronze Age, written by Mervyn Popham. The Anthology is edited by Barry Cunliffe. (Isbn # 0-19-288063-2)

This chapter details all the CURRENT, SCIENTIFIC information on the collapse and migrations. Argue with the experts, not me.

This is why I so seldom try to conduct conversations about historical topics online. Everyone thinks they're an expert. Inside a classroom, I can instruct. Outside of a classroom, all I encounter are amateurs who think they know better.

[Leonidas]

Re: *sigh*

Originally posted by Exile
Leonidas,

These sources you're using are unfamiliar to me. If they are legit historians, they should be.

Here;

This is the authoritative source on this topic. It is the best current anthology of European archeology. See Chapter 8, The Collapse of the Aegean Civilization at the End of the Bronze Age, written by Mervyn Popham. The Anthology is edited by Barry Cunliffe. (Isbn # 0-19-288063-2)

This chapter details all the CURRENT, SCIENTIFIC information on the collapse and migrations. Argue with the experts, not me.

This is why I so seldom try to conduct conversations about historical topics online. Everyone thinks they're an expert. Inside a classroom, I can instruct. Outside of a classroom, all I encounter are amateurs who think they know better.

Welcome back to the field

I see you have decided to take up the plow again.

Well, we all know that there are "experts" who have their own pet theories about what they seek to defend.

That is why there is so much controversy in various fields of science, including archeaology.

A person will find experts who can state what they believe to be true about any given topic.

But that expert may not be any more correct about that belief, than any other expert.

I am so glad you have found the definitive answer to the solution of who the Sea Peoples were. And that definitive answer has been found in a single chapter inside a single book.

Since you have found the definitive answer, then I can only surmise that any of your students in your classroom who raise doubts about this knowledge you present or the "facts" you teach them from this "book", will be dismissed as having the audacity to question the teacher.

About the distant past: No "expert" knows for certain what occurred in those dark years of the 2nd Millenium BC (circa 1800-1000 BC). There are theories and ideas and guesses and assumptions. But that is all they are.

Anyone who suggests that they have the definitive answer as to everything that occurred in those dark centuries is not only deluding themselves, but they are also blowing smoke in your eyes.

As to the Sea Peoples:

I have checked a dozen sources, including the Encyclopedia Britannica, and all sources state that the origins of the Sea Peoples are still not known for certain.

Some experts may claim one thing, while other experts will often contradict those claims. There is NO general consensus. All their ideas are just theories.

Some sources:

http://www2.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/seapeoples.htm

http://home.nycap.rr.com/foxmob/sea_peoples.htm

http://www.fact-index.com/s/se/sea_peoples.html

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0924171804/002-5110626-6232801?v=glance

http://www.shsu.edu/~his_ncp/SeaFolks.html

http://faculty.biu.ac.il/~maeira/The%20Philistines/The%20Philistines/Philistines.html

http://rapidttp.com/milhist/vol074ic.html

http://www.periclespress.com/origins.html

http://concise.britannica.com/ebc/article?eu=403400