Civ2's source code petition

[GoPostal]

Originally posted by Mercator


Because we want full compatibility with Civ2. We want Civ2 with all the glitches ironed out, and our own improvements added.

Without the original source code we won't ever be able to find out all the details of how the Civ2 engine works, so we could only make something that kinda resembles Civ2, which is exactly what FreeCiv and C-Evo have been doing. If that's what you want, that's fine too, but that's not what we're after.

Creating something from scratch takes way longer than editing existing code too, and even that's already a tedious process.

@Heresson:
Yep, you must've missed that.
You're not one because you spam.

@Palaiologos:
This is an important thread, way too important to be swamped like that. It didn't fit anywhere else either so I canned it.

As I said, for 2 weeks. I don't know much about all this. My bad.

[Palaiologos]

Originally posted by Mercator @Palaiologos:
This is an important thread, way too important to be swamped like that. It didn't fit anywhere else either so I canned it.

Terribly sorry dudes.Guess i am too immature some times.


Its not like the civ2 designers are reading any of these.... is it?

[Mercator]

Originally posted by Palaiologos
Its not like the civ2 designers are reading any of these.... is it?

No they probably don't, but this thread is for the civ2 fans. A place where everyone can sign up and follow the progress of the inquiry etc. (assuming that it will actually take off one day ).

[Harry Tuttle]

Let me sit down and down a few beers and I'll hammer out something. We can edit it in this thread. I'll try to make it flow well, and outline our main points and reasoning. Might as well get the letter started.

[Harry Tuttle]

Ok guys and gals, I have written up the beginning of a letter that we can start editing and hopefully send to the owners of the source code.

Please be advised, to whomever views this post, that this draft letter, that is posted in this singular post by me, has been solely written by me, Harry Tuttle (real name: William M. Schneider). This letter has been posted for the express purpose of being edited by all those involved in the petition and is not the final form.

Hope this goes well:

The letter:

Dear Civilization 2: Multiplayer Gold Edition Source Code Owners,

This petition seeks to gain permission from you, the Civ2: Multiplayer Gold Edition owners, for the release of the Civilization 2: Multiplayer Gold Edition source code. We present this petition to you in all good faith, as Civilization 2 fans, as loyal Civilization game franchise followers, and ultimately Civilization game purchasers.

For the past 9 years the computer game Civilization 2 has been on the market throughout the world and for 7 years Civilization 2: Multiplayer Gold Edition has been on the market throughout the world.

During this time Civilization 2 has enthralled millions with its addicting game play, its ease of use, and ultimately its adaptability to modifications. Since its release it has gained a following like no other game ever released. Even today, many years past the release of Civilization, there are ### (I want to say 5 main ones, but I know their are more smaller individual run sites, please post their addresses) websites around the world devoted to the game and its predecessors. No one can deny Civilization 2 is a game that will forever be revered as a classic.

As with any game that has brought so much pleasure to its fans we, the members of Apolyton.net, Civfanatics.com, The Civ2 Creative Design Forums, The Polish Civilization 2 Site, and the German Civilization 2 Site seek to learn more about the game which has enthralled us for nearly a decades worth of time. We, in full knowledge and consent, ask you to release the source code of Civilization 2: Multiplayer Gold Edition to us, the public, for use in modification for non-financial means. We only seek to better and modify the game that has been enjoyed for so long so that we can continue enjoying it, and all the Civilization genre games, including the upcoming the fourth so named Civilization game.

Again, we do not seek to gain financially from this petition nor will we tolerate those who seek to gain from any such release. We are committed to making the source code open to all, at no cost, so that others can continue to enjoy a game that has opened the world of gaming to so many.

As Civilization fans we realize that the source code to Civilization 2: Multiplayer Gold Edition may still be viewed as commercially viable to any such producer and distributor of the game. To those that seek to gain from the further release of the Civilization 2: Multiplayer Gold Edition we present the following arguments. Please realize that these arguments are presented in good faith, as we do not wish to prod anyone to give up the source code against their will or the will of the ultimate decision makers in the process. We only seek to present an argument and, hopefully, receive a viable argument as to the opposite of our goal.

We present the following arguments for the release of the Civilization 2: Multiplayer Gold Edition source code.

Letter ends here, open to additions


Ok, well post away. Add, edit the letter as you see fit. Present arguments as to the release if indeed you think we should put that in the letter.

I will update the letter if my letter is deemed OK to add to. If not, we'll do something else. Enjoy.

[techumseh]

What about Test of Time? If you want to mess with the source code, you have a lot more to work with with ToT.

[Mercator]

I would definitely rather have ToT, but I think we should leave out any specific version and just refer to it as Civilization II, Sid Meier's Civilizaton II in full, and mention all different releases in passing, like you did in the second paragraph, possibly including which companies it was released by as well.

I don't think they should be referred to as owners, but it should probably be addressed to Atari and/or Firaxis, because I certainly have no idea who owns the code, and what other parties there may need to be involved in getting the code released.

Other than that, I don't really know what would need to be in the petition...

Apart from e-mailing this to some Atari/Firaxis, we might also try to contact some of the Firaxis/Microprose people who registered here. John Possidente and Soren Johnson are two names that spring to mind.

[Harry Tuttle]

Ok, update. Give me your comments please!


The letter:

Dear Atari,

This petition seeks to gain permission from you, the Civilization II/Sid Meier's Civilizaton II holders, for the release of the Civilization II source code. We present this petition to you in all good faith, as Civilization II fans, as loyal Civilization game franchise followers, and ultimately Civilization game purchasers.

For the past 9 years the computer game Civilization II has been on the market throughout the world and for 7 years Civilization II: Multiplayer Gold Edition has been on the market throughout the world.

During this time Civilization II has enthralled millions with its addicting game play, its ease of use, and ultimately its adaptability to modifications. Since its release it has gained a following like no other game ever released. Even today, many years past the release of Civilization, there are ### (I want to say 5 main ones, but I know their are more smaller individual run sites, please post their addresses) websites around the world devoted to the game and its predecessors. No one can deny Civilization 2 is a game that will forever be revered as a classic.

As with any game that has brought so much pleasure to its fans we, the members of Apolyton.net, Civfanatics.com, The Civ 2 Creative Design Forums, Civ.Org.pl, and the German Civilization 2 Site seek to learn more about the game which has enthralled us for nearly a decades worth of time. We, in full knowledge and consent, ask you to release the source code of Civilization II to us, the public, for use in modification for non-financial means. We only seek to better and modify the game that has been enjoyed for so long so that we can continue enjoying it, and all the Civilization genre games, including the upcoming the fourth so named Civilization game.

Again, we do not seek to gain financially from this petition nor will we tolerate those who seek to gain from any such release. We are committed to making the source code open to all, at no cost, so that others can continue to enjoy a game that has opened the world of gaming to so many.

As Civilization fans we realize that the source code to Civilization II may still be viewed as commercially viable to any such producer and distributor of the game. To those that seek to gain from the further commercial release of Civilization II we present the following arguments. Please realize that these arguments are presented in good faith, as we do not wish to prod anyone to give up the source code against their will or the will of the ultimate decision makers in the process. We only seek to present an argument and, hopefully, receive a viable argument as to the opposite of our goal.

The arguments for the release of the Civilization II source code.

1) Due to the recent release of Windows XP and the Operating System's penchant for not working well with old games, Civilization II has been increasingly troublesome to play. Major modifications to the root directory are required to run the game, causing problems for any Civ2/Windows XP user. As is evident, Windows XP has become the dominant Operating System for all new computers. Thus, Civilization II has become an obsolete game.

2) In a market dominated by 3 dimensional polygon games, graphic heavy "shooters", and game console like games, the idea of playing a game like Civilization II has been lost to many consumers. Very few people want to pay for a game that was originally released in 1997. Thus, Civilization II has become uninteresting to the vast majority of computer game consumers.

3) With the release of Civilization 3, Civilization 3 "add-ons", and the future release of Civilization 4, Civilization II has been passed by as the leading game in the genre of strategy/empire building. Only a few adamant players across the world have chosen to play Civilization II, not enough to be any sort of viable consumer base.

4) An avenue sometimes overlooked is the ability for "gamers" to improve a game. Many people talk about what they want in a game like Civilization II but few actually bother to bring their thoughts to fruition. With the release of the source code the small Civilization II gaming community could improve upon the game, outlining what they, the hardcore gamers, want in a strategy/empire building game. Needless to say, this opens up an opportunity for any future producers of games in the strategy/empire building genre to learn what gamers really want. The signers of this petition are the types of gamers that know what they want and tend to set a precedent for other like minded gamers. Through the exploration of the internal workings of the Civilization II source code future designers can discover what exactly consumers desire from their strategy/empire building game. The opportunity for designers to learn, improve, and ultimately produce a better selling game is now.

5) Goodwill, is an important part of retaining customers. In any industry it is important to reinforce the idea that producers want to satisfy their customers. Any business owner knows that a happy customer is a return customer and that a happy customer will spread the word of a well meaning company. We, the signers of this petition, believe that releasing the source code to Civilization II is the perfect opportunity to build brand loyalty among Civilization fans. A great many game consumers like the idea that a game producer is out to not only create and sell a agame, but to also entertain and satisfy their customers. Remember, a happy constumer, is a return customer.

6) Building a following among fans creates an aura of infallibility. Fans of any game will ultimately be apt to continue purchasing any following games in a series. The "group think" among fans of any product, is that any future releases can only improve. With the release of the Civilization II source code many fans will view with affection later releases of the series, facilitating higher sales for the future game. Marketing does not only entail reinforcing the image of the latest game, but reinforcing the image of the entire series. The release of the source code will ignite a new interest in strategy/empire building games, creating a clamor for games of the same ilk.


Letter ends here, open to additions

EDIT: Grammar

[OzzyKP]

Ozzy, do you have a email address I can give to Atari?

Oh, sure. Shows how much I check this forum. Good for posting in Civ2-MP.

OzzyKP (at) aol.com

[deity]

Just quickly, haven't got time to go back over the thread, but I get the gist of it. Count me in!

One thing that is important to Civ2 MP players is to have an uncrackable password; BUT, presuming this could be set up once we have the source code, does that make it secure from others who would then have access to the source code and be able to to uncrack the password? !!!

LOL... try and answer that one!

[GoPostal]

You have to trust someone deity (and any password is eventually crackable)

[Pablostuka]

I have more petitioners from CDG:

bhiita - bhiita@NOSPAMyahoo.com

Pablicosta - james_hirts_2002@NOSPAMhotmail.com

Rachel - athenai2370@NOSPAMgmail.com


@Harry: I totally agree with the letter

[Arthedain]

Great letter Harry!

[Heresson]

We should add preamble and mention Christianity in it.

[Mercator]

Oh, um, I think you took my part in italics a little too literally (I suppose I was a little unclear there).

I meant to say "Civilization II"... or "Sid meier's Civilization II" in full. Not "Civilization II, Sid Meier's Civilization II". So you could probably first use "Sid Meier's Civilization II", and then continue with the short version: "Civilization II".