Announcement

**solo** · February 14, 2004, 21:54

I forgot to mention that the SSC site is at (31,55), northwest from where the settlers start the game, and my landing date, after checking the log was actually 495 AD, and not 499, as stated above.

ELG #8 Summary

This game was played with the robust Monarchy approach and was completed even before playing ELG #7, but at that time Zenon wanted to try a game using his great start with the Chinese that had an almost ideal SSC site and map. So I put this start and my game using it on the back burner until ELG #7 was completed. Even before playing ELG #7, I was pretty sure Zenon’s start would produce even better landing dates than the one in this game. This game was a nail biter though, because I was just able to squeeze in on the right side of 500 AD. Extensive use of Samson’s “zoom to home city” trick was needed to complete the space ship by 480 AD.

After ELG #7 was completed, I tried a replay using this start, trying to benefit from Zenon’s latest refinements in strategy, and while I was able to pick up techs more quickly, my economy suffered enough that I could not get a ship built in time to better the landing date of my first attempt, so I’ll leave it to you others to see if you can find a way to improve upon 495 AD using this start. This game is unique in that we are our own key civ for its duration.

Governments

Monarchy – 2050 BC
Republic – 525 BC
Democracy – 220 AD

Wonders

HG – 775 BC
MPE – 1050 BC
ST – 400 BC
Colossus – 125 BC
Copernicus – 20 AD
Isaac's – 100 AD
Leo's – 40 AD
Michaelangelo's – 225 BC
Darwin's – 200 AD
SETI – 400 AD
Apollo – 460 AD

SSC stats

size 8 – 400 BC
size 12 – 300 BC
size 21 – 75 BC
max. size – 29 in 100 AD

Techs

Trade – 1600 BC
Invention – 25 BC
Railroad – 180 AD
Automobile – 300 AD
Nuclear Power – 400 AD
Computers – 380 AD
Flight – 400 AD
Space Flight – 460 AD

Key civ contact - 4000 BC

AC arrival – 495 AD

**solo** · February 22, 2004, 13:02

ELG #8 Log

BC years

4000 Little Bighorn
3800 Wounded Knee
3700 Alphabet
3550 Wou – warrior
3400 Code of Laws
3350 Lit – settlers
3150 Cedar Creek
2900 Wou – settlers, Bronze Working, Ced – warrior
2800 Slim Buttes

Slim Buttes was the SSC having a whale, wheat, silk and another special hidden by grassland. There were a few river tiles and only one unuseful mountain tile, making it an excellent site.

2750 Lit – settlers
2650 Sli – warrior
2450 Ceremonial Burial
2400 Three Forks
2350 Wou – settlers
2150 Ced – settlers, Thr – warrior
2100 Lit – settlers
2050 Monarchy, Wou – warrior
1950 Sli – settlers
1850 Lit – warrior, Stony Lake, Killdeer
1800 Currency, Bear Paw
1700 Big Mound
1650 Lit – warrior, Sto – warrior
1600 Trade, Kil- warrior, contact with a Spanish exploring unit, peace, give tech

MPE was postponed for a bit and income was maximized to expand the economy and number of cities as quickly as possible. There was no shortage of excellent city sites for helpers, most of them having access to one or more whales or other useful specials.

1550 Ced – settlers, Big – warrior
1500 Sto – warrior
1400 Sli – settlers, Wou – settlers, Ced – warrior
1350 Thr – food, Bea – settlers
1250 Wou – warrior, Kil – settlers
1200 Big – food, Bea – warrior, Ced – food
1100 Lit – food, Wou – warrior
1050 Lit – Marco Polo’s Embassy, Big – warrior, Romans – trade for Writing, 150 g tribute; Persians – give tech

Besides Writing, MPE provided access to 12 other techs I could trade for later. They were Map Making, Masonry, Pottery, Horseback Riding, Iron Working, Mysticism, Warrior Code, Construction, Feudalism, The Wheel, Polytheism and Mathematics. Several of these usually do not appear so early via MPE, and this good fortune probably made the difference in this game, allowing a pre-500 AD landing. Several AI must have started the game with quite a few free techs.

1000 Sto – dye
975 Literacy, Lit – warrior, Wood Lake. Greeks – trade for Map Making, share maps, 150g tribute

950 Sli – wool, Dead Buffalo, Sto – warrior
925 Big – diplomat, Lit – warrior, Ced – trireme, barb archer bribed, 61g; Woo – warrior
900 Thr – food, Sli – warrior, Bea – trireme, Spanish – give tech, share maps

After trading maps, I could see that Madrid was just within range for setting up a r/rr bonus later on. The helper Stony Lake, to the east of the SSC could also be used as a station city. Besides sharing a whale and wheat with the SSC, this helper had two other whales within its radius.

875 Woo – settlers, Lit – settlers, Dea - warrior
850 Kil – food, The Republic, Ced – food, dye(d) to Arbela – 96g; Spanish – trade for The Wheel, 200g tribute; French – trade for Construction, Pottery, peace, share maps

825 barb horseman bribed, 41g, Bea – warrior, Wou – warrior, Persians – trade for Polytheism, give tech, share maps; Spanish – give tech, share maps

800 Sto – food, Sli – hides, barb leader – 150g, Greeks – give tech
775 Sli – Hanging Gardens, Woo – warrior
750 Big – settlers, Point of Rocks

Point of Rocks was the first of 5 colonies established on the western part of the Persian island. These sites had good commodities and some good trade specials, too. These colonies were along the way to the Japanese, who became the target of many good trades later on.

725 Thr – silk, Sli – we love begins, Wou – hides, Lit – copper, wool(d) to Persepolis, 136g

The Persians were a bit too close for good payoffs, but were easy to reach when some quick gold was needed, which was all of the time.

700 Bea – settlers, Sli – dye, Ced – dye, Philosophy, Monotheism, barb legion bribed, 82g; Spanish – give tech, 150g tribute

The Spanish kept picking known techs to study next, but made up for this by being a good source of tribute.

675 Celts – give tech, share maps; Raging Brook, Japanese – give tech, share maps
650 Kil – gems, Sto – settlers, Running Bear
625 Greeks – 50g tribute, Big – trireme
600 Woo – settlers, copper(d) to Arbela, 72g; French – trade for Masonry, Seafaring, Banking, give tech, share maps; Spanish – 50g tribute

575 Sli – marketplace, Wou – wool
550 Poi – settlers, Bea – beads, Lit – settlers, hides(d) to Paris, 296g; Japanese – give tech, share maps; Greeks & Spanish – 50g tribute each, revolution

Now that the SSC was ready and as much tribute as possible was extracted it was time to switch to Republic and start SSC growth.

525 government to Republic, Run – salt, Rag – settlers, Sli – trireme, Russians – trade for Engineering, hides(d) to Lyons, 176g

500 Big – dye, Thr – silver, Sli – temple, size 4, Medicine, Silver Moon, Wildcat Valley

Wildcat Valley was on an island near the French having access to 3 whales, one of the best colony sites. The French were another very good trading partner.

475 Dea – gems, Sto – hides, Ced – hides, Sli – size 5, dye(d) to Orleans, 312g
450 Kil – dye, Great River, Sli – size 6
425 Sli – hides, size 7, dye(d) to Kyoto, 280g; Celts – give tech, share maps
400 Rag – silver, Woo – dye, Big – beads, Bea – hides, Sli – Shakespeare’s Theater, size 8
375 Sli – aqueduct, size 9, Wou – copper, Astronomy, gems(d) to Lyons, 348g; silk(d) to Orleans, 468g

After a slow start, now trade is starting to hum.

350 Sanitation, Poi – dye, Sli – wine, size 10, Lit – dye, Seven Brothers, French – give tech, share maps

325 Sil – dye, Run – dye, Dea – beads, Kil – settlers, Sto – hides, Thr – dye, Sli – harbor, size 11, Greeks – trade for Bridge Building, give tech, share maps

300 Sli – gems, size 12, dye(d) to Pasargadae, 232g
275 Sli – sewer system, size 13, Woo – trireme, Snake Canyon, Japanese – give tech, share maps

250 Sli – bank, size 14, First Wind, silver(d) to Kyoto, 460g
225 Big – beads, Bea – hides, Sli – Michaelangelo’s Chapel, size 15, University, hides to Paris, 296g

200 Wil – gems, Dea – gems, Sli – library, size 16, Lit – settlers, we love commences in many helpers and colonies, dye(d) to Sli – 216g

175 Sli – wool, size 17, Greeks – give techs, share maps
150 Sna – granary, Sev – silk, Gre – dye, Wil – harbor, Poi – beads, Kil – settlers, Sto – hides, Thr – coal, Sli – cloth, size 18, Ced – settlers, Wou – copper, Persians – give techs, share maps; Spanish – give tech, share maps; dye(d) to Edo, 176g

125 Sil – dye, Sli – Colossus, size 19, wool(d) to Pasargadae, 504g, Fir – trireme, silver(d) to Cordoba, 140g

100 Sev – granary, Gre – harbor, Sli – stock exchange, size 20, Theory of Gravity, gems(d) to Kyoto, 554g, dye(d) to Rheims, 368g, French – give tech, share maps

75 Fir – granary, Rag – coal, Dea – spice, Woo – beads, Big – silver, Sli – wool, size 21, Chemistry, Ced – harbor

50 Sna – coal, Bea – beads, Kil – dye, Sto – beads, Thr – food, Sli – university, size 22, Wou – dye, Lit – gold, dye(d) to Osaka, 208g

25 Sil – beads, Run – salt, Rag – settlers, Dea – dye, Sli – food, size 23, beads(d) to Tours, 368g, French – trade for Invention, share maps

AD years

1 Sli – food, size 24, Gunpowder, Lit – warrior, Kil – warrior, Sto – warrior, wine(d) to Osaka, 606g

20 Poi – salt, Dea – harbor, Sli – Copernicus’s Observatory, size 25, hides(d) to Paris, 220g, Persians – give tech, share maps

40 Sev – silver, Gre – gold, Wil – dye, Dea – dye, Kil – dye, Sto – beads, Sli – Leonardo’s Workshop, size 26, Navigation, Ced – hides, Wou – gems, Lit – wool, dye(d) to Persepolis, 132g, gold(d) to Persepolis, 198g

60 Fir – dye, Sil – coal, Run – beads, Woo – beads, Bea – coal, Sto – salt, Thr – coal, Sli – food, size 27, Explosives

80 Sna – beads, Big – gold, Sli – food, size 28, Wou – dye, cloth(d) to Edo, 641g, Spanish – give tech, share maps, Japanese – give tech, share maps

100 Gre – engineers, Wil – granary, Rag – beads, Sli – Isaac Newton’s College, size 29, Woo – engineers, Bea – engineers, Bea – engineers, MetallurgyCed – hides

SSC growth and wonders were completed simultaneously, making it seem like this was even planned in advance! All that remained was to terraform some of its specials and to set up the rr bonuses with Madrid.

120 Sli – cloth, Spanish – trade for Chivalry, Greeks – give tech, share maps, Japanese – give tech, share maps, wool(d) to Edo, 532g, silver(d) to Orleans, 380g

140 Sto – beads, Physics, Persians – trade for Democracy, gems(d) to Rheims, 408g, coal to Sli – 131g

160 Fir – salt, Sna – salt, Gre – dye, Wil – beads, Sil – gold, Run – salt, Poi – colosseum, Dea – salt, Woo – colosseum, Big – colosseum, Bea – beads, Kil – dye, Thr – dye, Sli – wool, Steam Engine, Wou – gold, Lit – colosseum, silk(d) to Lyons, 204g, Yellowtree

180 Sev – cloth, Rag – silk, Sli – coal, Ced – colosseum, Railroad, wool(d) to Persepolis, 246g

200 Fir – temple, Sli – Darwin’s Voyage, Magnetism, Industrialization, silver(d) to Sli – 204g, revolution, French – give tech, share maps

240 government to Democracy, Kil – colosseum, Sto – colosseum, Sli – oil, Corporation, Yel – transport, wool(d) to Persepolis, 408g, cloth(d) to Edo, 797g, dye(d) to Paris, 224g, coal(d) to Paris, 755g, salt to Sli, 137g

260 Electricity, Fir – gold, Sna – colosseum, Sev – colosseum, Gre – colosseum, Wil – colosseum, Sil – colosseum, Run – colosseum, Reg – colosseum, Dea – colosseum, Woo – temple, Big – salt, Bea – colosseum, Sto – gems, Thr – colosseum, Sli – wool, Ced – wool, Wou – colosseum, Lit – diplomat, Refining, gold(d) to Sli Buttes, 390g; gold(d) to Orleans, 396g; beads(d) to Osaka, 200g; gold(d) to Persepolis, 354g

From here on out it was two techs per turn.

280 Yel – coal, Steel, Sev – oil, Poi – silver, Kil – library, Sto – temple, Sli – dye, Combustion, wool(d) to Edo, 712g; silk(d) to Paris, 438g; dye(d) to Antioch, 224g; Celts – give tech, share maps

300 Electronics, Sna – oil, Run – beads, Rag – copper, Woo – wine, Thr – library, Sli – silver, Ced – spice, Automobile, Sev – transport, Fir – transport, Gre – transport, gems(d) to Orleans, 360g; coal(d) to Tours, 395g; copper(d) to Slim Buttes, 399g; dye(d) to Cordoba, 132g

320 Mass Production, Sil – coal, Poi – superhighways, Dea – oil, Big – oil, Bea – oil, Sli – superhighways, Atomic Theory, Lit – wool, dye(d) to Madrid, 438g; gold(d) to Slim Buttes, 782g; silver(d) to Madrid, 547g; hides(d) to Osaka, 228g; oil(d) to Slim Buttes, 953g

Now 2 of the three SSC routes were receiving the rr bonus with Madrid. The third would be established a few turns later when it was needed. Sli Buttes also started repeating hides now.

340 Leadership, Fir – superhighways, Sna – dye, Sev – superhighways, Gre – hides, Wil – superhighways, Run – food, Rag – superhighways, Woo – gold, Kil – beads, Sto – beads, Thr – oil, Sli – hides,, Ced – food, Tactics, Wou – dye; food to Slim Buttes, oil(d) to Wildcat Valley, 958g; wool(d) to Seven Brothers, 192g; salt to Slim Buttes, 316g

360 Yel – salt, Nuclear Fission, Wil – oil, Sil – superhighways, Dea – transport, Big – superhighways, Bea – superhighways, Sli – hides, Machine Tools, Lit – food, hides(d) to Osaka, 1022g; dye(d) to Valencia, 402g; gems(d) to Valencia, 602g; coal(d) to Wildcat Valley, 300g; oil(d) to Wildcat Valley, 770g; dye to Slim Buttes, 352g; oil(d) to First Wind, 336g; salt to First Wind, 152g; oil(d) to First Wind, 326g

380 Miniaturization, Fir – gold, Sna – superhighways, Sev – oil, Gre – hides, Sil – oil, Run – oil, Rag – silver, Poi – beads, Dea – superhighways, Woo – superhighways, Big – oil, Kil – university, Sto – harbor, Thr – silver, Sli – hides, Ced – temple, Computers, Wou – superhighways, Lit – copper, gold(d) to Slim Buttes, 1056g; oil(d) to Big Mound, 770g; oil(d) to Wildcat Valley, 441g; coal to Wildcat Valley, 72g; oil(d) to Bear Paw, 392g; hides to Madrid, 229g; Greeks, trade for Warrior Code

400 Yel – SETI Program, Nuclear Power, Wil – oil, Sil – oil, Rag – oil, Bea – oil, Sli – wool, Flight, dye(d) to Lyons, 232g; silver(d) to Orleans, 335g; spice(d) to Rome, 122g; gold(d) to Rome, 152g; copper(d) to Kyoto, 136g; silver(d) to Kyoto, 217g; hides(d) to Osaka, 732g; wine(d) to Osaka, 250g; oil(d) to Slim Buttes, 782g; hides to Slim Buttes, 132g; oil(d) to Point of Rocks, 274g; beads to Wildcat Valley, 72g; oil(d) to Raging Brook, 290g; coal(d) to Seven Brothers, 210g; cloth to Slim Buttes, 206g

420 Laser, Fir – salt, Sna – beads, Sev – oil, Gre – hides, Run – food, Poi – silver, Dea – food, Woo – beads, Big – food, Kil – food, Sto – food, Thr – food, Sli – gold, Ced – food, Wou – wool, Lit – food, Radio, wool to Persepolis, 208g; gold(d) to Persepolis, 624g; oil(d) to Slim Buttes, 719g; silver(d) to Tours, 345g; oil(d) to Big Mound, 514g; oil(d) to Wildcat Valley, 514g; salt to Wildcat Valley, 82g

440 Advanced Flight, Sil – beads, Rag – copper, Bea – cloth, Sli – food, Rocketry, Seven Brothers, Greeks – trade for Horseback Riding[/b]; oil(d) to Slim Buttes, 775g; salt to Wildcat Valley, 110g; oil(d) to Wildcat Valley, 560g; oil(d) to Raging Brook, 170g; beads to Raging Brook, 70g; silver to Slim Buttes, 192g

460 fir – food, Space Flight, Sna – oil, Sev – silk, Gre – barracks, Wil – food, Run – food, Rag – oil, Poi – beads, Dea – food, Woo – Apollo Program, Big – dye, Kil – S#1, Sto – S#2, Thr – S#3, Sli – gold, Plastics, Ced – S#4, Wou – S#5, Lit – S#7, Japanese – trade for Warrior Code, oil(d) to Slim Buttes, 750g; silk(d) to Wounded Knee, 323g; gold(d) to Persepolis, 600g; beads to Slim Buttes, 215g

480 Yel - S#7, Superconductor, Fir – S#8, Sna – C#1, Gre – S#9, Wil - S#10, Sil – C#2, Run – S#11, Rag – S#12, Poi – C#3, Dea – S#13, Woo – M#1, Big – C#4, Bea – C#5, Kil – M#2, Sto – M#3, Thr – C#6, Sli – mass transit, Fusion Power, Ced – S#14, Wou – S#15, launch 15-3-3-1-1-1

495 arrival on Alpha Centauri

Attached Files

si_a480.sav (74.6 KB, 92 views)

**Bloody Monk** · February 23, 2004, 00:30

Nice game, Solo. This has certainly come a long way from the 10 city early Republic style!! Marvellous looking empire you've put together this time. Looks very ICS even.

2600 beakers, almost 1700 from the SSC, and many improvements remaining indicate how sweet the trade revenues were. This is a good map for new folk to work with, I think.

Monk

**SCG** · February 23, 2004, 01:20

Originally posted by solo
Extensive use of Samson’s “zoom to home city” trick was needed to complete the space ship by 480 AD.

I guess this isn't considered a cheat anymore? seems like Xin Yu or Ming listed this among known cheats something like 4 years ago? i can't seem to find it atm - or for that matter the thread where Samson must have rediscovered it...

**Scouse Gits** · February 23, 2004, 06:31

Simply unbelievable - a mere 1100 years earlier than my best ever effort!

Stu

**solo** · February 23, 2004, 09:17

Thanks Monk and SG(1)! We have come quite a long way since beginning these comparison games. The quality of competition made this inevitable.

SCG,

Our ELG rules permit any exploit such "zoom to home city". I'm sure we all have an exploit or two we feel we just can't "stoop" to using, but this comes down to a matter of personal opinions, which can vary widely.

**SCG** · February 23, 2004, 10:01

i've not used that particular one in games because i always thought it akin to caravan rehoming as the game attempts to prevent going to a different city at that particular point in the game as well. beyond that, i can see how it would have cut 20-40 years off your landing (maybe just 20 with your # of cities). anyway, was just curious how the discussion went as it seems to be attributed to samson instead of Xin Yu

**Elephant** · February 24, 2004, 12:43

Is seems to me this says it all:

"b) Since the game attempts to prevent caravan and freight re-homing, this exploit is not allowed. Any other ploy or exploit is allowed."

The game poster sets the game rules.

**-Jrabbit** · February 26, 2004, 10:24

Will someone please explain to me exactly what the "zoom to home city exploit" is?

**Scouse Gits** · February 26, 2004, 10:42

I think I can explain this one ...

During the start of turn city processing the game allows you to enter a city screen when a white good is completed - if that city contains a unit that belongs to a city further down the build list you can click on that unit and 'zoom to home city' - whilst there you can modify that cities build order - no big deal unless you have just discovered a new tech! but now you can instruct that city to change to whatever that new tech has opened up - and rush it - thus getting your SuperHighway or SS module a full turn before you would normally be allowed.

Have I got this right?

Stu

**duke o' york** · February 26, 2004, 10:47

[edit]Yeah - that's exactly right.

Damned quick typists![/edit]

When you have built something and you get the message "City has completed it's improvement", then choose the option to go to the city screen. Once here, you can make the changes you want to production, but instead of leaving the city screen by clicking on exit or pressing return, you go to a unit in that city which has a different home city. In the menu for that unit, you can see "Zoom to home city", which will transfer you to a different city's city screen, without taking account of either the shields or beakers/cash amassed by that city that turn. This way, you can take advantage of discovering a tech earlier in your turn, and change the cities' production to the newly-discovered improvement to get the "AI benefit" of having units and improvements on the very first turn of having a tech.

**Scouse Gits** · February 26, 2004, 10:48

Seems that I did - get it right that is!

Beat ya doy!

**Elephant** · February 26, 2004, 11:57

It's an "exploit" because it takes arranging cities with units in them from cities higher up the build list (which is processed from bottom to top), sort of like arranging more than 2 Settlers or Engineers to get a work project done in one turn.

Still falls within the rules established by the game starter. So does Airbases on Hills and Food Caravan Trick, I might add.

And for Lafayette: black-clicking and HutFinder...

**Bloody Monk** · March 29, 2004, 02:32

Solo,

I have been trying to finish this game but have been delayed due to local pollen/allergy conditions. Since no one else has posted, would you please keep this open for another week, so I can finish?? Thanks.

This will appear lame next to your extraordinary effort. I am roughly 400 yrs. behind you at this point. Made many mistakes along the way. Not so sharp any more. Also, had bad luck with AI help getting Engineering.

Monk

Announcement

Early Landings Comparison Game #8

Early Landings Comparison Game #8

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