Dye Copper bug - a patch

[samson]

Huts

Yeah, okay, I guess 'eliminated exploration' was hyperbole.

My point about huts vs 'no huts' is this: I don't think huts help as much as we once thought. The chance of getting a free city or some early cash or a timely tech casts such a lure that one keeps tipping them until bad things happen: barbs, an off-track tech, or a misplaced city. The negative outcomes, I think, can actually impact the game to the point where a 'no huts' policy is actually more advantageous to the player.

Call this the 'samson conjecture': that aggressive hut-tipping provides no significant advantage in early landing games over a no-hut policy. The exception would be for huts tipped prior to founding your capitol.

[solo]

Oh sure, I concur that huts are far less valuable than we once thought. It was those games where most early hut results were favorable that their use produced a noticeable advantage, especially when there were extra early cities from nomads and tribes.

[SlowThinker]

Black hat bug

Originally posted by samson
What exactly is the black hat bug? I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Normally any item that helps your citizens to be content (for example martial law, HG, 2 luxuries) turns
one VU (very unhappy citizen) to U (unhappy citizen) or
one U (unhappy citizen) to C (content) or
one C (content) to H (happy).

So you get '+1 happiness'.

But some items (HG, 2 luxuries...) turns VU directly to H. So you get '+3 happiness'.

So unhappines due of number of cities is bad as far as you get red hats, but is good from the point you get black hats. With 24 cities under Republic and deity every city has 1 black hat and celebrates very easy. Much easier than with 16 cities.

Read 'happiness quirk' (link in GL).

[War4ever]

Can this be used with MGE? b/c i would love to implement this into MP

[SlowThinker]

War, what do you mean? Caravans?

[SCG]

Originally posted by War4ever
Can this be used with MGE? b/c i would love to implement this into MP

yes, the bug is still in effect in MGE.

I'm not sure exactly where, but at the end of the Civ II 2nd demo game (played using MGE), Cavebear and myself had several discussions with reguards to celebrations/avoiding disorder and production vs trade. and one of the primary cities being discussed (Cordoba?) had a black hat bug that meant it needed fewer luxuries to stay content. Somewhere in there are a couple graphical depictions of it (probably more than 1 thread too)

[SlowThinker]

ICS wouldn't be possible without the bug. It stands on HG+black hat bug.

[Scouse Gits]

ICS may not be as effective without the bug ... but it's certainly possible as each city will have a production capacity and will contribute towards science unless built on unusal terrain. ICS is all things to all people. There are many differences between several variants. To some players ICS is having many cities, which is different from the pure form used so effectively by DaveV.

------------------

SG(2)

[War4ever]

what i meant was preventing the repeating caravan? you said it was a patch for standard civ2...so can this patch be used to cure the problem in MGE and more importantly, MP games....?

or did i misunderstand this patch??

[SlowThinker]

War,
I think it works with Civ2 2.42 only.

What do you mean by 'repeating caravans'?

[samson]

This patch is only for 2.4.2.
It fixes the Dye/Copper bug which causes many cities to demand Dye early in the game, and later to demand Copper.

[War4ever]

ST, there are times in games when you can repeatedly send (hides) caravans to cities and do it most of the game without the caravan using one of the slots up.. it makes for extremely beneficial trading to the fellow using it.

if the patch worked for MGE, people couldnt' exploit this fun but damaging little trick, and there isn't really a way to ban it . b/c your only building what the city tells you you can

[rah]

I don't think it fixes the repeating hides caravan demand.

Actually I didn't know it was a bug, but after reading this thread, I've see it almost every game, and try to take advantage of it.

Good work guys.

[samson]

'Repeating hides' is an altogether different bug. It affects both supply and demand. I believe it is caused by CIV2 using the hexidecimal numbers 0-F to represent the 16 commodities in the three trade slots. In this scheme "0" would stand for hides, but "0" must also mean "available", causing hides to never be blocked (put in parentheses.)

[rah]

That makes too much sense, so that can't be it.