Strategies against Barbarian Attacks

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Elephant
1. ... Barbs "seem" to get a "target" at the time they spawn, and it is not necessarily the nearest unit or city. I saw a Barb pass completely by my capital on its way to another city.

The "target" can change. In the current ELG a barb archer destroyed 2 cities and then left the map, only to return and capture a newly founded city.

RJM at Sleepers

[Elephant]

1. I am uncertain about a "defense bonus" for Warriors in cities vs Barb attack. I would say that the likelyhood of Vet status is no more than any other successful defense combat. There does seem to be a higher healing rate when a unit already fortified in a city is attacked and survives, something like 40% or so, but this may not be unique to Barbs, rather a general case of city healing any combat damage if the unit has not moved. There seems to be faster healing the nearer you are to one of your own cities. If adjacent to both a "diversionary" unit and a city, the Barb will attack the city. Barbs "seem" to get a "target" at the time they spawn, and it is not necessarily the nearest unit or city. I saw a Barb pass completely by my capital on its way to another city. Most barb ground movement seems to be in a straight line, modified by ocean/lake borders.
2. "Offensive" meaning unit with 2 or more Attack value. Those with 1 have a 50% chance of winning. If fortified, stay put and sweat it out.
3. Liability of "Diplomat Defense" is that it is money-losing, rather than gaining. The Barb Leader always stacks with the closest Barb unit, so bribing the other one and attacking the first loses the Barb Leader ransom. 65-85 gold needs to be reserved solely for Barb bribes; a better use of that gold may be to build a Phalanx and some connecting roads. Keep the Phalanx in a central city, move and fortifiy when Barbs first spotted; the fortified Phalanx will almost always beat two Archers, likely becoming vet in the process. The goal is to force the Barb Leader's accompanying unit to die on the walls, so that the Barb Leader can be ransomed.
4. I think land spawning of Barbs also starts around the 16th turn (the Solo cycle). You will see them anywhere you have been the "last unit visited", which includes any maps you have traded for or setting the Reveal Map in Cheat or Scenario mode. Once another civs unit moves next to or through a tile you will not see them until you view that tile again with one of your own units. Note that Triremes, Caravels, and Frigates may carry many more Barb units than their "official" capacity. I have seen six Knights come off a Caravel.
5. A variation on the tribute idea is to let the Barbs have the city, then bribe it back next turn. Early in the game it will be VERY cheap, and you often get the conquering Barb unit in the bargain. I bought a size 1 city with Archer for 39 gold once, less than the price of the Archer.
6. The type of Barb unit may give you an indication of the highest level of military tech any civ has discovered, so if you see Knights, Crusaders, or Legion Barbs you can be assured some other civ has discovered that tech, even if you have not.
7. I believe the game randomly sets "spawning grounds" where Barbs reappear frequently during the course of a game. In my most recent game, I never saw any spawn near me, but another civ was plagued by them from 2000BC to 500AD.
8. There was some hypothesizing elsewhere that the Barb city will either: repeat build the last military unit the city built before capture, or repeat built the same military unit as captured the city. Worth investigating.
9. Something about Barb Farms and Barb Traps: location, improvements to the city (build a Barracks!) before letting it be taken, frequency of unit production, etc.
10. Barbs can discover technology from Barb Cities! But I have not found a way to trade for it...
11. Barbs stop after discovery of Mobile Warfare.

Solo, I dont think the Barbs are spawning more near cities that are next to black tiles; I think that is a mis-perception, because we are more likely to notice them as they approach from elsewhere in the black, and we are more suprised by them suddenly "jumping out" so close to our cities. I encourage you to play a few games with full map revealed from the start to see how they seem to spawn in certain areas. I do not know how we could build the Road/Rail link to a Barb city: wont the defenders kill our Settler/Engineer on sight? Barb cities may also prefer Shields over Food and Trade; sometime I mean to slip a few Spys into a test Barb city and see what they are doing.

[solo]

My own experience confirms most of the points above.

I've found that barb appearances are mostly likely on Odeo years, and confirm the new pirate ship for sure every 16 turns.

Luring attacking barbs away from a valuable city with a more expendable unit is a great tactic, too, if there is enough surrounding terrain to entice detours.

A benefit of early Monarchy in EL games, is that warriors can control happiness as well as provide protection at the time of the game when cities are the most vulnerable.

Another thing I have noticed is that barbarians are most likely to appear next to the cities closest to unexplored tiles, and are much less likely to appear in well explored areas having high traffic. I fairly useless helper near unexplored terrain a safe distance away from the SSC and more important cities can be used as a distraction.

Barb ships always attack other ships, but seldom go after land units, so the idea of lining the coast with units such as caravans to prevent access is a good one.

Barb cities are very cheap to bribe, and make great instant colonies or helpers. This means if one of your own smaller cities having no improvements is being attacked, it may be better to give it up and bribe it back later on when it's convenient for adding another city. In the meantime, it will spawn cheap, bribable units, and may also be used for roaded or railed trade route bonuses. Our possesiveness, when it comes to keeping what "belongs" to us, is an emotion and may not be the most useful guide for basing our decisions while playing a game.

[La Fayette]

Your statements are in accordance with my experience, apart from William Keenan's statement that barb vessels may attack ground units.
I have stopped hundreds of barb triremes along the coast with zero or low defense units such as diplomats, caravans or settlers.
I agree that warriors usually become vets after having destroyed a barb archer, but I haven't studied that more thoroughly.

[Zenon]

Strategies against Barbarian Attacks

When researching this topic a bit I found quite a few facts allready known, but the knowledge is spread at sometimes difficult to find places and it seems there is no summary under a strategic point of view. Also some questions seem to be open and I hope experienced players can add to this. A good strategy to defend against early barbarian uprisings obviously is of highest importance in Early Landing Games, where every defense unit that has to be build is a considerable delay to the ultimate goal and were quite often hopeful starts are destroyed by a single attack. Unless pointed out otherwise I will refer to deity level and 2.42. Differences of levels have been discussed here: http://www.apolyton.net/forums/Forum1/HTML/001911.html
A little treasury for everyone interested: The Barbarian Paper by William Keenan http://www.apolyton.net/coc/guides/barbtechs.shtml

1. Defense with warriors

Warriors have a good chance to survive archer attacks in the early game. The defender in the first (and only) city can not loose, as is well known in OCC games. Defenders in cities 2 - ? have a defense bonus of appr. + 100% and seem likely to get a veteran status when surviving an attack. If 2 archers attack the same round a warrior in a city with some terrain defense bonus (e.g. river) is likely to survive, a warrior on a city on plain or grassland is likely to loose the second attack. A warrior outside a city has no defense bonus. It is therefore no advantage to fortify a warrior outside on a forest or to move it on a hill if it cannot be fortified in time. It also has to be noted, that there seems to be a recovery of a surviving defender inside a city in the same turn. IIRC this was discussed in a thread somewhere. Sometimes a warrior exploring outside can distract one of the barbarian units. A barbarian unit will go after a unit if it is closer than the next city.

2. Offense against archers

It is well known that the defense value of a barbarian archer is 1, not 2 as for regular archers. Any offensive unit can easily defeat them. A warrior or a phalanx have a chance to win.

3. Defense with diplomats

The most common defense in ELGs (see Solos Early Landing Guide 2.2.7) is to bribe one barbarian unit with a diplomat. The bribed unit can defeat the other barbarian unit the same turn. This does not work of cause if the barbarian units are stacked or if the single unit is not in reach of the unit that shares the tile with the barbarian leader, a very difficult situation. If there is any defending unit at hand it can sometimes be sacrificed leaving the city, holding back the closest barbarian unit one turn.
The amount needed to bribe a barbarian unit is (shields neccessary to build the unit)*2+1

4. Piracy

Barbarian vessels appear at turn 16 for the first time. If the sea arround the seaside cities has been explored allready they often can be seen several turns before landing. If the landing fields arround the closest city are blocked by any units (like caravans), the barbarian vessel will stay in front of the city for centuries until it disappears or the own defense has been build up to allow a landing. William Keenan points out that attack vessels will attack ground units, too. I cannot confirm that, as I have blocked frigates before. This may be related to the civ version. Barbarian attack vessels (including triremes) attack other ships, though. Once unloaded the barbarian vessel disappears the next turn and is not a threat to other ships any more.

5. Paying tribute

At some occasions the best defense may be to move the defending unit outside. If the city is undefended and the barbarians can conquer it on the same turn, the barbarians ask for tribute under certain conditions. Once payed they disappear. According to Cullivan the conditions are:

a) The minimum demand is 50, but it varies in accordance with the following equation:

city size * 25

Thus the Barbarians will demand at least 50 gold from a size 1 city, 50 gold from a size 2 city, 75 gold from a size 3 city, 100 gold from a size 4 city, etc.

b) If your treasury has more than twice the minimum (and it doesn't matter how much more), the Barbarians will demand half. If you have an odd amount of gold, the Barbarian demand is rounded down. So if your treasury has 203 gold, they'll ask for 101.

c) If your treasury has less than the minimum (49, 74, 99, etc), there is no demand, just conquest.

http://cullivan.com/civ/tips.html

If the chances to defend an important city are bad, and you have the usual early demand of 50g, this may well be worth paying. This also means that it is better to spend any money above 100g before the attack, as the barbarians would just ask for more.


There is certainly more to add to this. Some open questions I haven´t found an answer yet: where is the (city?)limit for the early city defense bonus? Is there a higher probability of getting a veteran during this time? What exactly is this defense factor? I would research it, but may be someone has allready the answer.

Any comments welcome

Zenon