Game I [Evalds Urtans]

[Exploit]

I've done my turn and paused it for Zorzak. has anyone let him know?

I only knew I needed to do my turn because Exploit send me a pm

Zorzak is not registered on civstats but I did send him an email based upon his userid on this forum and I sent him an in game message in another pitboss game that we are both playing in.

[Zorzak]

Sorry sorry....big sorry to you all guys. My foult i repeat my foult.
Explain:
I always checking this site:

http://www.civstats.com/viewgame.php?gameid=1347

and for 2 days ago in this site i saw on ALL players sings: " * "
I thought that sometimes is wrong with server or bug or something like this and that's why i didn't redo my turn... sorry.
Btw of course i did second fail becouse i forgot to check our thread in forum and third fail becouse i didn't log in (for example to check whats going on)
Last time i don't have so much time -> means i'm little tired -> means my brain and my memory don't work enough good
eh sorry again

[ricketyclik]

Kaleb and Zorzak: I suggest you subscribe to email notifications for this forum. It usually only gets posts when something affecting game play is going on.

[Zorzak]

Kaleb and Zorzak: I suggest you subscribe to email notifications for this forum. It usually only gets posts when something affecting game play is going on.

Yes yes, i've checked this option in other forum on similar threads (PBEM/PitBoss) but in this forum i forgot to do this..... now it's already done, thx for reminder

[ricketyclik]

No problem

[Dog1]

Mistake had happen while sending a chat message to Exploit through ingame diplomacy screen. Seems like that with the message also a "cease fire" agreement went through. I didnt want to send a cease fire agreement. Anyway, Exploit accepted cease fire so I will have to ask Evalds to restart this turn. Sorry for troubles guys.

[EvaldsUrtans]

Dog1 & Exploit PLEASE stop messing up turns! Restart of turn does not affect only you two, we have multiple wars going on in the game.

I have restarted the game before Exploit's turn.

[Dog1]

Thank you, my mistake was with the in game chat. I apologize again.

[Exploit]

I would like to raise an objection to the reload on the grounds that I have an email from Dog1 prior to his sending the cease fire agreement stating that he was going to do so. This wasn't a "game chat" mistake rather it was Dog1 changing his mind about the cease fire after the fact when we got into long term peace negotiations.

I am NOT proposing another reload instead I detail a proposed remedy that has minimal impact on everyone while getting the game back to where it should be. Here is a detailed timeline of events (all of which I can prove via emails and civstats records).

Times are in eastern

Feb 15
11:24 Dog1 sends email to me that starts with the quote "Listen, Im about to offer you a peace."

11:26 Dog1 logs into game and, as he said he would, Dog1 offers cease fire agreement, NO MESSAGE was included in the cease fire diplomacy screen.

18:50 I log into game and accept the cease fire agreement. After reading Dog1's terms for a long term peace email, I email him a counter-proposal with my own terms for a long term peace proposal.

Feb 16
7:19 I log into the game and play my move since I am not at war with anyone.

7:55 Dog1 sends a response to my email refusing my counter-proposal and making ridiculous demands of me.

8:13 Dog1 posts on this forum asking for a reload due to a "Mistake had happen while sending a chat message to Exploit through ingame diplomacy screen." This is despite the fact that he had prior to sending the cease fire offer, just sent an email stating that he was going to offer me the cease fire and the diplomacy screen had no chat message in it!

8:39 Evalds reloads the game to prior to my last move.

8:57 Dog1 sends another email to me stating that Evalds has restarted the turn and that I am not to accept his original cease fire offer.

8:59 Dog1 logs into the game and makes his move putting him back to being at the beginning of the turn due to the reload.

Summary: This is a very blatant abuse and I have very clear documentation to prove it. It is my intention to accept Dog1's cease fire agreement as I did the first time since it moves his troops out of position. If Dog1 wishes to declare war on me again this turn after I accept the cease fire then I am fine with that but he must then go in the second half of the turn in the war going forward.

Dog1 is obviously seeking to use the reload to prevent his troops from being moved out of my lands as part of the cease fire and he is looking to regain the first half of the turn order which he lost when I moved before him after the cease fire agreement was agreed to.

Under the circumstances does anyone other than Dog1 have any objections to me accepting the cease fire as I originally did? I will wait 24 hours before making my moves to see if anyone else objects.

[Dog1]

You gotta be kidding me. This is disgusting. Show your proves. I dont have time for this, but sure. Bring it on.

[Exploit]

Here is the email in which Dog1 states that he intends to send me a peace offer (note the time):



Here is the civstats timeline showing that 2 minutes later Dog1 proceeds to login and send the peace offer as he just said he would.

[Exploit]

You gotta be kidding me. This is disgusting. Show your proves. I dont have time for this, but sure. Bring it on.

Please note that I am only including these emails because Dog1 has asked me to show my proofs. All email messages to me are considered confidential unless the author gives me authorization to share them as Dog1 did above.

Here is Dog1's response to my counter-proposal sent at 7:55 AM just 18 minutes later he asks for a reload of the game. ALSO NOTE FROM THE CIVSTATS POSTED ABOVE THAT DOG1 DID NOT LOGIN TO THE GAME TO NOTICE HIS "MISTAKE" AND THAT HE THEREFORE KNEW HE HAD MADE THIS OFFER FOR 21.5 HOURS BEFORE ASKING FOR A RELOAD.

At no point in our conversations did Dog1 mention that he had made a mistake in offering the cease fire instead once negotiations did not go the way he wanted then he decided to mention his "mistake" (a day later).

Here is the rest of the email chain:

Re: Hi neighbor

Originally Posted by Exploit
I sent you a similar email about cooperation on civstats before I read this message. It is way too early to say who is going to win this game and we both have decent chances however Kaleb has a huge lead and I think we do need to work together to compete against him.

I am not interested in a permanent alliance per se however I have no interest in going to war with you and I do want to work together for mutual benefit so a long term non-aggression pact may be in order.

Here is my detailed proposal:

1) A 50 turn non-aggression pact during which neither of us declares war on each other.

2) Borders agreed as follows: I will resettle the southern city that was razed which will form our borders. I will not settle east of that border and you will not settle west of that border. The 6 neutral tiles south of Nig-hsia between our lands will not be settled by either of us.

3) We agree to open our borders to one another and to link our trade networks to improve our trade route profits.

4) I will spread hinduism to at least one of your cities from which you agree to spread hinduism to at least 3more of your cities. 3 missionaries is 120 hammers which is roughly equivalent to the archer and settler that you killed of mine when you started this war so that would make us even in my mind. We both benefit from the spread of hinduism in your lands (assuming you convert to hinduism) so the reparations cost is fair in my opinion.

5) I am willing to consider potential joint attacks on other civs in the future based upon the merit of the proposal but I am not committing to anything at this time.

Do you agree to these terms? Are there any other items you would like to discuss?

Regards,
Exploit

Hi.
I dont have account on civstats, so If you wish to contact me do it through in game or through this forums.

First of all, I wish to express my sadness with seeing you being in disbelief towards our common goal. Not seeing the potential of the permanent alliance. Not seeing the great benefit.

1. If you refuse permanent alliance, then you and me both know what will happen after 50 turns. Im sad to see you refuse to accept me as a thinker.

2. If you remember, I declared war because you refused to talk about that city. I was not satisfied with you occupying that tile, and that still did not changed. I want my city occupying that tile.

3. Open borders and trade routes are fine by me.

4. If you want benefits from your religion in a number of my cities, then you make sure that spreading happens in that number of cities. I dont take your settler+archer hammer reparations seriously, because you bring that HA on your self, with not wanting to talk.

5. No comment.


With permanent alliance we assure each others safety, mutual help and support. With them other civs warring with each other as we speak, together we can grow into one super power and establish a world domination. We have still have chances to bury the hatchet into others back's.

Those were my terms for peace. I hope wisdom enlights your path and you make a right decision. If we go warring tho, then we go till the end of one of us. Im expecting you answer TODAY, as my hordes are hungry and already have their orders.

Cheers,
DogOne

[Dog1]

11:26 Dog1 logs into game and, as he said he would, Dog1 offers cease fire agreement, NO MESSAGE was included in the cease fire diplomacy screen.

This is a LIE. I logged in game to do my move, and I sent him message through diplo screen saying: "I sent you PM on Apolyton forums." Here I must of sent cease fire agreement by mistake. Why would I sent him cease fire if we actually didnt even start to negotiate peace terms? All I wanted is to send him one in game message so he could read PM before making any moves.

8:13 Dog1 posts on this forum asking for a reload due to a "Mistake had happen while sending a chat message to Exploit through ingame diplomacy screen." This is despite the fact that he had prior to sending the cease fire offer, just sent an email stating that he was going to offer me the cease fire and the diplomacy screen had no chat message in it!

Double LIE.

Evalds, can you somehow check that diplo screen?

Why I asked for turn reload in the first place.
I thought that its like in single player, that when cease fire is signed there can not be war for 10 turns. And that would be wrong because I didnt want cease fire in the first place. It was supposed to be a "heads up" message for him to check his PM here, before he makes any moves.
Also, how I realized that cease fire was signed?
I saw that he done his turn before me. And that would be a double move, because we were supposed to be in a war. So I logged in game and saw that we were in peace. Immediately I remembered that I saw "cease fire" sticking in the box when was trying to send him a message. I immediately logged out of game and requested a turn reload. I honestly didnt know that cease fire was offered and in fact had no reason to offer it before agreements were made.
After the reload of Exploits move was done, I joined the game and realized that cease fire agreement was not undone. I realized that my move in the previous turn should of been reloaded. But before putting myself in more embarrassment by asking for another reload, I tried to move my unit into his territory, and war was declared.

So now its basically where it was.

I would give him cease fire (and peace) only, but ONLY if we agreed on permanent alliance. Hes 1 tech ahead of me and have 2 cities more. He have better land. I have no reason to let him build cats in a couple of turns and to let him connect all of his cities and resources. To let him regroup and then to let him rush me. That cease fire went in with the message, and it was not intentional.

[Exploit]

Bah I am tired of arguing this with Dog1. His changed moves to prevent the original cease fire mean that the only way to rectify the situation would now be to reload yet again, which is something that I oppose therefore I will let it slide this time.

I would ask that the next time Dog1 whines for a reload that it not be automatically given to him. Reloads should only be done when the majority agree that it is required.

[Dog1]

Bah I am tired of arguing this with Dog1. His changed moves to prevent the original cease fire mean that the only way to rectify the situation would now be to reload yet again, which is something that I oppose therefore I will let it slide this time.

I would ask that the next time Dog1 whines for a reload that it not be automatically given to him. Reloads should only be done when the majority agree that it is required.

Why dont you tell us what this last post of yours contained before you edited it? Iv know what it contained because Iv seen it yesterday but was too tired from work to go at it. And I asked admin of this forum to put that text back. It was another LIE. Better sad it was a lie attempt. But this lie was provable and after you realized it you edited the message.

EDIT: Also, now I am the one responsible for a game halt? You were the one refusing to accept that it was a mistake, refusing to play on and using lies to back it up. And I humbly asked for a turn reload and you start throwing woods and stones at me, telling lies and calling me a "whiner"? I think you were already told to respect others, in the previous situation where you also used lies to turn the situation in your own advantage.