New Pitboss Game

[proviisori]

Originally posted by Pinchak
I vote yes for applying the rule to two civs at war as well.

"If you are making the turn flip you must allow the civ you are at war with 12 hours to end their turn before moving units in your second turn."

That gets a from me too.

[proviisori]

It seems that I had to play this turn again.
I guess no-one else got that?

You can see the weird phenomena in CivStats.

[EDIT] Maybe the gamespy crash happened at the same moment I logged off and because of that the turn didn't end properly.

[Beta]

Originally posted by Pinchak

Or the more probable conclusion... Gamespy is an unstable, junky program that causes all sorts of anomalys.

The likeliest candidate, I agree.

provi - nope - I did not have to replay it. But then I wasn't trying to make a double move either.

[Pinchak]

The last load i used was from your autosave prov, since it showed the most recent time.

Perhaps the autosave is created when you login, and not when you end your turn?

I remember one time rebooting from snoopys autosave and it showed him as not having played his turn.

Who knows.

[Aro]

About the rule... I vote "yes".

[uniteatteri]

Originally posted by Pinchak
The last load i used was from your autosave prov, since it showed the most recent time.

Perhaps the autosave is created when you login, and not when you end your turn?

I remember one time rebooting from snoopys autosave and it showed him as not having played his turn.

Who knows.

I have noticed exactly the same thing when the game hosted by me has crashed.

[uniteatteri]

Does anyone of you know anyone who could play my turns during next week (from Sunday to Sunday) while I'm in Tunisia?

[proviisori]

Maybe Con could play?

or maybe not... he already played for Beta...

Rhoth maybe?

[Rommel2D]

Originally posted by Pinchak
The difference is not major, but there is a difference. In regular multi all partys are present. You get the war message right away. Without giving too complex of an analisis, people generally don't exploit the double move in multi for the reasons mentioned above.

This is the reason I was disappointed to see interest in Pitboss limited to the synchronous move variation. The double move is enough of an exploit that the designers created a special mechanism for MP (8 second freeze rule I believe) to deal with the abuse in MP. Unfortunately this fixed period is too short to help PTBS games- perhaps the freeze period should be a certain ratio of the turn timer?

As it stands the only way to have a good game with unrestrained bloodletting (external rules become too onerous in my experience) is to play with sequential turns. Even though this is still way more expedient than PBEM, few people seem interested in forgoing the convenience of flexible syncro-turns. To me, that seems about as enjoyable as watching the Lord of the Rings movies with every battle scene cut out and replaced with photos of Middle Earth action figures accompanied by subtitles from the Cliffsnotes of Tolkien's books...

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Pinchak
I vote yes for applying the rule to two civs at war as well.

"If you are making the turn flip you must allow the civ you are at war with 12 hours to end their turn before moving units in your second turn."

I will not play this game if this (particular) rule is invoked. This is simply unacceptable due to the time limitations of PTBS. Basically you're making it a sequential turn game when you are at war, which means those of us with a shorter window (once a day, say) opportunity to play the game are restricted from doing so.

If you want to require a turn between declaration of war to avoid surprise wars, fine, so be it. However the rule becomes too onerous if it applies during all war turns.

[Pinchak]

As a result of popular vote, the first suggested rule is enacted.

RULE: If you declare war in a turn in which you make the turn flip, you cannot move any units in your second turn until the defending civ has played their turn. If 12 hours passes and defending civ has not played their turn, you can move units and complete your second turn.

I would be really surprised if that rule ever hinders someone with honest intentions, based solely on statistics.

Now to address the second of the proposed rules, the one pertaining to double moves during war.

Snoopy has voiced concern about this rule, to the point of leaving the game. While I consider such an ultimatium to run counter to eariler advice that we should decide game issues as a group, I do understand that Snoopy wouldn't make this statement unless he felt very strongly about the topic.

And indeed, perhaps it is not proper to even propose rule changes once the game has started. People join the game with a certain understanding, and based on their real life obligations they decide if they can meet the obligations of the game.

To be fair to people who realized a 24 hour timer when joining the game, the second rule (double move during war) will not be voted on, and hence will not become a rule. If two civs enter into war they can agree amongst themselfs if they want to recognize a 12 hour freeze on double moves. This might get tricky if more than 2 civs are involved in a war, but things can be worked out via private messages.

[Wittlich]

I concur with Snoopy's reasoning.

[uniteatteri]

Rhoth is filling in for me. I'll be back on Sunday, 3/11.

Thanks Rhoth!

[Wittlich]

Have a safe and enjoyable trip Uniteatteri (Topi)!

[Beta]

Originally posted by Rommel2D

This is the reason I was disappointed to see interest in Pitboss limited to the synchronous move variation. The double move is enough of an exploit that the designers created a special mechanism for MP (8 second freeze rule I believe) to deal with the abuse in MP. Unfortunately this fixed period is too short to help PTBS games- perhaps the freeze period should be a certain ratio of the turn timer?

Which is what we are trying to achieve with the 50% rule.

As it stands the only way to have a good game with unrestrained bloodletting (external rules become too onerous in my experience) is to play with sequential turns. Even though this is still way more expedient than PBEM, few people seem interested in forgoing the convenience of flexible syncro-turns. To me, that seems about as enjoyable as watching the Lord of the Rings movies with every battle scene cut out and replaced with photos of Middle Earth action figures accompanied by subtitles from the Cliffsnotes of Tolkien's books...