New Pitboss Game

[Aro]

Originally posted by Aro
The game is not there...

Actually, Gamespy is not there...

[proviisori]

gamespy seems to be back up, but the game is not connected... neither is the Bohemian Epic game.

but

Teach Alexman is..

[Aro]

Nothing changed... The game is not there.

[Pinchak]

Game should be up. Sorry for the delay.

Also... I am declaring a new rule for this game. You cannot use the double turn manuver to start a war. If you planned on starting war, and find yourself the last to play, you will need to wait one turn. Hence, if you are the last to play you cannot declare war that turn, but can on the very next turn that instantly takes place.

Please adhere to this rule.

[Wittlich]

Makes sense to me.

[uniteatteri]

Sounds right. The rule could be also: "If declared war when last to play a turn, you have to wait until your target has played before moving any units."

[proviisori]

Yeah... good rule

It is basicly the same rule we have agreed in the warlords team demo game.

[snoopy369]

Hmm.

I am not sure I'm willing to follow a rule of that nature, because it's not really meaningful except in very few cases, and in some cases it can give advantage of another sort. It also is too easy to take advantage of. That said, given the majority seem to support it I will try to follow it so long as it does not directly disadvantage me [ie, I will certainly not try to use the double move to my advantage in any way]. However, if I've made a complex plan of some sort involving careful timing, and it turns out I am the last to play the turn that turn out of the way it works out, I don't see why I should be penalized for that.

The double move is basically a fact of life in MP games, and it's certainly not banned there. I don't see why it's much more of a problem in PTBS; if you are at risk for it just don't move until late in the turn. In the majority of cases, where double moves are dangerous are not in the declaration of war but the turn before declaring war or many turns after - ie, either getting your forces up to the cultural border and the next turn moving them across, or just within the borders after war's been declared getting by a stack or some such. This rule does about as much as banning liquids on planes ...

In any event, Pinchak, you should not unilaterally declare rules in games like this. Perhaps you're new to this, but this is a game we all play together, so we should discuss potential rules together and decide as a group.

[Pinchak]

Point taken.

I only mentioned it because it has been a topic that has come up recently in several unrelated venues. This is something I wanted to mention in the begining of the game but forgot to.

If this was some sort of sweeping rule (like "archery units are banned"), or a bias rule (like "any player who's name starts with an S must pay other civs 10 gold a turn") then I would definatly put it up for vote.

This rule however addresses a very narrow exploit. Any inconvience caused by the rule would not only be inprobable, but could be avoided through planning. I do not see how a rule of this nature could be taken advantage of considering it only limits the person triggering the rule.

The double move is basically a fact of life in MP games, and it's certainly not banned there.

Lets consider ourselfs progressive.

I don't see why it's much more of a problem in PTBS

The difference is not major, but there is a difference. In regular multi all partys are present. You get the war message right away. Without giving too complex of an analisis, people generally don't exploit the double move in multi for the reasons mentioned above.

However, if I've made a complex plan of some sort involving careful timing, and it turns out I am the last to play the turn that turn out of the way it works out, I don't see why I should be penalized for that.

A complex plan involving careful timing would not be affected by the rule because the rule would be taken into account, unless of course careful timing is refering to using a double move.

if you are at risk for it just don't move until late in the turn

How do you know if you are at risk for it? If players always had an idea of when and where an attack was comming from the double move would have no advantage and would not need to be addressed. Besides, if everyone is waiting until late in the turn to move it slows the game down.

In the majority of cases, where double moves are dangerous are not in the declaration of war but the turn before declaring war or many turns after.

Indeed a double move can give an advantage at any stage during war, however it is not feasable to ban them altogether because there is one every turn. The point of using "declairation of war" as the limited event is two fold... First, it allows the defender at least SOME chance to respond before finding units knocking at his city gates. And secondly, it narrows the application of the rule, so that it does not become an inconvience to regular play.

In hindsight perhaps a vote would have been more approprate then just declairing a rule midgame, however due to the nature of the rule (affects everyone equally and addresses an exploit) I almost felt obligated to put it in place as the host.

Sorry to be so long winded in this response, but I wanted to address any concerns. Also, I will respect democracy, and put it to a vote.

We are voting on having the rule or not.

Rule: If you declare war in a turn in which you make the turn flip, you cannot move any units in your second turn until the defending civ has played their turn. If 12 hours passes and defending civ has not played their turn, you can move units and complete your second turn.

Voting closes March 1st, GST.

[Pinchak]

I vote yes in favor of the rule.

[proviisori]

Originally posted by Pinchak
"any player who's name starts with an S must pay other civs 10 gold a turn"

so, where is my 10 GPT, Snoopy?


also...

I vote: yes

[Beta]

I agree with pinchak on this and I vote yes. I do see this as simply closing a narrow exploit.

And snoop - I do and don't agree it is like a MP game. I do because both involve a double move, and IMO, the double move bastardized the inetent of a turn-based dynamic. I agree that pitboss is a mixture of both, but generally it is seen as a sped up form of pbem. And I don't, because in true MP, both players are logged on at the same time, and though a double move is possible, so is a quick reaction.

So again, I vote yes. I also like the rule where when two civs are at war, no double moves are allowed. You must give the other player at least half the allotted turn time to play their turn.

[Beta]

Oh oh!

There are two New Worlds showing up.

[Pinchak]

I vote yes for applying the rule to two civs at war as well.

"If you are making the turn flip you must allow the civ you are at war with 12 hours to end their turn before moving units in your second turn."

[Pinchak]

Beta,

When i checked pittboss this morning the timer had stopped, so i assumed the game was offline. I then closed the pittboss program, and restarted it.

My guess is that although the timer had stopped, the game was still displayed on gamespy, and that somehow you viewed the game listings while i was in the process of closing one and reopening the other.

Or the more probable conclusion... Gamespy is an unstable, junky program that causes all sorts of anomalys.