Lizzy's rise to greatness

[DNK]

I'm not saying to attack them, just to be sighted first coming from the south so they think that's where we're coming from. Then they'll send scouts south if they haven't already to find us if that's what they want.

That said, my original impression was that they weren't a huge military threat and were way more focused on REXing and economy. I think the quecha is just icing on top for getting the UB and a deterrent for anyone else, but we don't have much to go on.

[mzprox]

If it's a second city then it's 3*3, no matter which direction we take. If it's a capital they will see us quite early anyway and we wouldn't have a chance against their quecha.

[[Even if we move SE there is good chance that they won't see us and we won't make contact yet (they must have a hill at their border to see two tiles far) ]] edit: I took a closer look, and it seems they have a forested plainhill at their borders so we will make contact if we move further
If they have pottery that would mean 3-4 extra science for our current research (not per turn, altogether), not significant but more than nothing. i'm thinking to set our research 0 for now to get the most possible benefit. Nevertheless they will benefit a bit more from our contact, but at least we wouldn't waste our espionage points anymore (that's the most significant benefit imho).
then we can try to make some good border deal.

So I say let's go for the contact and approach them as close as we can.

[DNK]

Move SW, then S, then approach from a different direction imo. Takes longer, but we throw them off unless they spot us early.

[mzprox]

some info and assumption we can get from scores and stats:

Inca has two cities, pop 5 and 2, they found their second city 3 tuns earlier than us.
they are one tech behind us, also they have mysticism which they did not used (no early religion founded yet). They did not make a discovery in the last 11 turns which means they are after a big technology, most likely bronzeworking or it could be writing. Once we made contact we can find out more what tech they have (now my guess is that they have wheel +pottery to be able to build their unique building, and mining. they are after BW and it should be ready soon)
They have 2-4 warriors, no more (they have bigger pop but we have the biggest soldier rating (shared with some other civ(s)) tough some techs we have, like wheel/mining/hunting also increase this rating. We should look around to check wheter they have horses (I doubt they even have animal husbandry), in ny case i'd say threat level is very low thanks to the big distance.
I think the city we found is the capital, otherwise I doubt they would had place their second city one tile off river (there could be an other river there we can't see yet)

I suggest Bellerophon move SE and make contact (after Inca has moved) so they would have one less turn to react to our presence . we could start talking about borders, could be quite early though.

[Hercules]

A lot to think about. Settlers back to back may be good idea but it would upset our careful plans.

I agree it does look like Civ.de (Inca) I think we probably should make contact but can Belle first explore SW S to see if they could approach us from that direction. Or if we do decide to make contact now then to come back via the southern route.

If it is Inca maybe we could get some religion from them if they go for it early.

With 5 civs with 2 cities and Inca (if it is them) second in score I wonder is that their second
city rather than their capital. If civ capitals are more or less equally spread does that mean we have a civ roughly the same distance to the west or south?

[Calanthian]

Ok, but then we may have to start planning a fifth city in the hills to block them off.. set a border and have early warning.. The spot 1 N of the middle vineyard may be good, if we can reach it first.

The moment we make contact we should start border negotiations..
(remember DoF: the effect of my early border negotations with you)

[mzprox]

benefit of contacting:
-we could spend our espionage points
-we could get extra informtion of them
-we could make diplomatic agreements
-possible science bonus

cons: they can spy on us
they may prepare an invasion against us.

all in all I think we should make contact.

I wouldn't worry about an invasion becaue: the distance is very big, they have a second city, they must know that maintenance is high and quechua rush is bit too late at this point anyway. i say we follow our way focusing on science and watch their military rating carefully. we should have enough time to react even to a chariot rush. we just need to scout the land between us to catch any invasion attempt.

[Calanthian]

One other thing: IF we decide to retreat: we have to make sure that we move before Ares (Inca) does..

[Calanthian]

** Given these stats (expected war mongerer) it may be wise to build our 4th city swiftly: build settlers back to back..
so we have the horses available soon.

** Our nr 1 score may inspire them into militairy plans if they see us..
so it may be wise to let Bellerophon turn around.



** On the other hand, no one has more soldiers then we do.. and a science bonus would be nice too..

WHO IS OUR CHIEF DIPLOMAT??

[Calanthian]

I also think they are the Inca; the nr 2 in the score..

INCA STATS:

2
ISABELLA of INCA (CIVFORUMDE) The Germans

*** Leader:
* Traits: SPI and EXP

*** CIV:
* Starting techs: Mysticism and Agriculture

* UU: Quecha

* UB: Terrace (Granary with culture !)

*** OVERALL CONCLUSION:
* Strong points: Quecha rush, double production speed of Terrace

* Weak points:

* Remarks on leader / civ combination:



*** EXPECTED STRATEGY
* Warmongerer?: -- YES
* REX? : ------------ YES, Terrace helps and EXP too
* Tech?: ------------ NORMAL
* Trader?: ---------- NORMAL
* Builder?: ---------- YES
* Early religion?: -- MAYBE
* Sea?: ------------- NO

[mzprox]

Bellerophon has found signs of an other tribe!



no contact yet, they can't see us. Question wheteher we want them to spot us. also I'm not quite sure who they are..too many civs with yellow banner. (90% they are the Inca or could be Holy rome maybe). assuming that's their capital the distance between our capitals is 18 tiles.
Need input what to do in this situation

To the west the lion has approached Apollo, let's hope it will attack.



Aurora has grown to pop2 ad working on the lake for one turn (calculated that missing one food from not working a flood plain will not slow down growing at all, and 2 extra gold is good for now). Next tun our gold mine will be ready. Switched production to barrack, it shoul be ready in 9-10 turns then we will finish two warriors fast.

[mzprox]

It's always a little gamble in the begining. A fast start is important to grab certain wonders, to be first to gain tech bonuses etc. and we can be sure that many of the other teams are gambling too. By gambling I mean neglecting defense and going for fast development. We can't be sure who are neighbors are, but early war is a very risky buisness, we need to secure peace through diplomacy, reason/bluff whatever. But until we see no real danger we should assume that our neighbours are going for development too (otherwise, if we would slow down and later found that our neighbours got ahead we would be hard pressed to go offensive)

[Calanthian]

We do have hunting.

[DNK]

Do we have hunting? We'd get stomped by the first chariot with or without BW if not...I trust in these guys to take the fastest course as even when I've prioritized BW in our previous "who can have the best start" competitions, they both beat me to it by going through writing and cottaging up first. It really works best to put it off unless you urgently need the whips/chops, especially in a scenario like this one where we've got so much maintenance to deal with :/

[Ben Kenobi]

Yes, please stay the course. BW after writing and pottery.