Lizzy's rise to greatness

[mzprox]

Since in the last x turns,or i should say last few months ( ) I prepared an invasion, I'd like to see how it goes.. but after some turns in it I think we should end the game. doesn't really matters who wins since not too many care about this game anyway and we know how we and others did. We accept a draw knowing that we had a good chance to actually score an ingame victory.. if not the world would had ended before that..

[Hercules]

The problem is that I cant make turn myself. I really apologize for this, but this week I am just too busy in RL.

BUT havent we decided to finish game without playing it on? I am not fan of such endings but I dont see how we can speed up right now considering that my team depends on bemep's availability and UCIV is not showing at all. So saying it is just my team's issue is not completely correct. If we are going to draw it but play some turns on for fun then I dont understand this hurry. I havent heard any objections against draw yet but in general we agree on any result suiting other teams if it helps us to stop bringing extra inconvenience for others.

This is from OT4E at CFC in response to posts from Caledorn and us.

I don't accept this reason, nor should he implicate Uciv. He could have responded days ago or played the turn. If he cannot play it for some computer reason and there is no other turn player backup, so be it. If no team can provide a turn player at all, that reflects on the team.

[Hercules]

Also this was OT4E's view's Sept 19th.

Dont take it personal I didnt meant that admin ruling was unfair and I never asked for a one. Game is unfair because everyone plays against CP. Remember even three musketeers scheduled duels one by one but not at the same time. If you are seeking for a fair revenge you know what to do

But returning to the game and the situation. I dont feel that calling a game is fair. My proposal was to give a chance to everyone (may be except Civfr, but whatever can happen if we agree on AW) to take the lead. But it requires 'always war' or 'always peace' rule to make it being decided by the game mechanics but not the diplomatic tables.

Of course, I fully understand that this situation where everyone is seeking for a revenge on us is caused by me. Others seems to be better in diplomacy. Well done.
If you want to call it right now I can propose the following order to vote:
1) Apolyton - obviously done better than others this game. Actually we have lost the game on turn 194.
2) CivPlayers - we were heavily outplaying others before they started cooperating
3) CFC - could have been in troubles without serious help from UCIV
4) UCIV - personally I cant accept that you have done better by just being in the right place all the time.
5) CivFR - unfortunatelly didnt pay attention and give chance to our survival plan.

I honestly beleive that you can make it finish like AP, CFC, UCIV, CivFr and CP or whatever you guys want to prove to yourself. I will be happy to "autoplay" turns since the game is not interesting in its current state and I dont know the way to play it good without spending several hours on each turn. Or may be Bemep somehow manages to beat everyone, that you cant exclude completely. In my mind he deserves victory for just spending more time in game than all others combined and of course making us doing that good.

I will be happy to start some other pitboss that can be more interesting considering the following things:
- smaller map is a way to go
- my personal wish is to have less balanced map (in fact it is one of the reasons why it becomes not interesting. 4 big civs have all the resources, no istmus or anything that could make it worth to fight for except just to put someone down)
- no diplomacy or limited diplomacy
- no tricks that you cannot predict. Actually I dont beleive that keeping 1 warrior in city is good idea playing with humans, especially at the stage with commandos and railroads. Is it fair not to raze enemy's cap if you know the way how to do it? Well in spanish apolyton they dont allow to raze cities with more than 9 citizen. Just as an example, you can invent a lot of better ways to fix it.

Take note of comment 2.

That's why this a democracy game, you seek cooperation and NAPs.

[OzzyKP]

That's why this a democracy game, you seek cooperation and NAPs.

You also seek other people to handle your turn if you are unable.

I opined on this point a bit in the CFC thread, heh, sorry if I was too much of a jerk, but I think it needed to be said.

[Hercules]

Yes it did need to be said.

Very good post at CFC ISDG thread.

[MJW]

To be honest I don't like civ4 (city maintance system) so what I really care about is the drama and diplomacy of a DemoGame. Which now happens to be centered about how/should this game end. So I talk about that. I would only be willing to humor the thought of stepping in if we do the 25 more turns option. That post at CFC was pretty good and got across Apolyton's viewpoint well, OzzyKP.

I must tell you guys I feel even 25 turns is pushing it...

Edit: Cross-posted with Hercules.

Edit 2: I support 25 turns because that's the only way this game can end. MZ should talk about it in the CFC thread.

[MJW]

Well if you look at the thread the mod changed the rules to were you NMR if you miss your turn/pause too much. It's only a matter of time before Maya or Aztec's miss their turn or have to BS it so that will help us if mz still plays. The turn pace will get better, MZ...

We should clarify if we want 25 turns in the CFC thread as fast as possible now. All five teams agreed to it if you read the thread and it got mod approval so if we don't want 25 turns we have to do something about it. If we want 25 turns the exact end of the game needs to be known for obvious reasons. We might attack CFC (or the reverse) on the last turn or something stupid. I'm not saying that we should do that but just pointing out the exact end of the game is very important.

I want 25 turns--there is no way this game finishes without replacement players which I really dislike. In real serious games there are no replacements. For example in diplomacy if you miss two turns in a row your country never moves for the rest of the game. The game ether goes on like that or it is a draw for all players that remain. (In that game it's possible to get a normal draw with a single unit so that's why it's all players. If Civ was serious they would have some rule to determine if you have a chance or not.)

Edit: Talk of a three-way draw is useless unless you use my trick and HRE and Maya won't vote for suicide. It's just too much of a stretch from unanimous to 25% despite the circumstances.

[Hercules]

Game on the move again. Aztecs played.

CFC and Civfr(Maya) to play. 48 hrs on the clock, 34/35 hrs remaining.

[OzzyKP]

I'm getting married today!!!!!!!

[Hercules]

Congratulations, I hope the day is very special for you and your wife.

We probably shouldn't expect to hear from you now for at least 3 weeks.

[mzprox]

Congratts!!!

[MJW]

Well if you look at civ stats MZ took out a city... I don't think it's possible to plan ahead because it's only a matter of time before CivPlayers turn player gets replaced by someone at RB. So MZ should just push forward until something happens (and understand he could get replaced or not move at anytime).

[mzprox]

Aztec tries to defend each of their coastal cities, but one of them was in range to 12 bombers, I destroyed That city killing about 13 units but we still lost 5. Later I will make some screenshots.
According to plan I started a big invasion, 170+ units I moved in already and thinking about whether i should move more or leave more units at defense. It is very possible that aztec will attack and destroy 1 or 2 of our border cities, but there is not much i can do about it. At this age there is no good defense against a city raider tank and they can attack from their territory. The best defense is to retilate on the attackers, but then i can't send all my units for attack.
I expect that aztec will empty money man city which we are threatening right now, and then we will move our units to meet cfc's. It's also possible that they choose to attack.. I did not simulate it, but I think they don't have enough units to destroy us. they have 40 arty, about 60-70 tanks and many other unit.
I used spies to sabotage roads out of 3 attemps all 3 died, but at least one road was destroyed which protects our invasion force. Last turn aztec tried to sabotage our oil sources, they attacked all 3 and they were succesful at 2, fortunately the third has failed, but they still have much better luck than me with spies.

[mzprox]

Here you can see our invading army

[MJW]

So when will CivPlayers be officially late moderator? They just got attacked by 230 units so causing them to not move without warning is too harsh. However, prodding them to move isn't.

After things settle down and we can fix the turn order you should probably set a hard time limit. But now is not a good time for stuff like this like MZ said in the CFC thread.