Lizzy's rise to greatness

[Dinner]

OK, I checked, WPC is on the east side of the Incas so they're close-ish but not a direct neighbor so I'd just sign the NAP especially since they're second to last in the ranks but maybe they'll make useful cannonfodder when the final alliance war happens. You never know. On another note we're making excellent progress on spreading our religion with only two more existing cities to go plus we currently have one missionary being constructed. A few observations in no particular order:

-On the courthouse front it looks like 7 cities still need courthouses with two currently under construction plus only a few cities currently have markets so long term building those would help keep costs under control and raise revenues.
-Science wise we are still missing horseback riding, iron working, and calendar the first two are cheap techs and if we decide to go to war I suppose they could be picked up quickly but we already have at least one luxury resource we can develop with Calendar so we should consider fitting that in some how.
-WRT Civics if we ever revolt to serfdom we should consider also revolting to pacifism as that would get our population growing which is one of our stated goals; it just depends on if we think slavery is worth losing those extra tile improvements for.
-Our manufactured goods are almost in last place, I know this is tied to population which should go up now, but Civfr is really surging ahead on that front even out pacing RB.
-Power wise we're dead last and falling behind rapidly. I honestly expect everyone to see us as their preferred target because we're just that weak. RB's army has grown massive and they're power graph is still growing so fast they're practically going vertical on the power graph. It seems clear we are going to have to slave military units pretty heavily.

[Dinner]

Isn't WPC rather far away from us?

[Hercules]

Got this from Tatu / Proviisori WPC

[Greetings to the most respected Lizzy, whose beauty transcends all boundaries.
And greetings to the great people of Ottoman empire.

Our relationship has been peaceful and prosperous for a long time and our citizens have enjoyed the opportunity to visit your country for business and pleasure.

The bureaucrats of our nation also want to affirm the friendly relations by signing a non-aggression pact between our nations. We believe there is no obstacles against it, as our nations are comfortable distance away form each other.

We would like to propose a NAP up to turn 200 between our nations.

Would you agree with this proposal?

As always, feel free to be in touch if you anything to ask from us.

Best regards,

proviisori of WPC

[mzprox]

New turn, there is nothing extraordinary happening as most of the things ara planned for the next 5-10 turns in advance. We captured the barb city, the maintenance cost is getting very high (190g/turn) Apolyton city is building a settlers, then a worker.
We have feudalism, next tech is 'guilds'.

[mzprox]

Good point showing that our landis not that far from RB's. I too got the idea that a surprise attack from the seacould work in our favor. we have the +1 movement on water, many coastal cities to eventually rule the sea.

[mzprox]

You always mention this 'great' city site close to the capital. 1 it's not that great,2 it will be settled within 10 turns. I had to make a choice and I believe i was supported in it then, namely to rush and build cities far away from our capitol to block the mayan expansion. It's all about land grab: we secure good borders then backfill later. That's what we will do. we don't have much less cities than the others and the ones we have are much more advanced than the average (in number of buildings,that is why our gnp is high). 1,5 magic number for worker/city is strategy dependant. The slave economy I do (and if you know my past games you should know how effective it is) requires much less workers. No need to tell me again that I shouldn't slave..I got it already.. I'm doing a transition now and will reduce slavings. I still think we won't be able to avoid draftings to have a great army though.

[Dinner]

All the more reason to claim the land before someone else does. We're tiny and as Cal pointed out there are great city spots with in 5 tiles of our capital which we haven't bothered to settle. I think MZ is letting himself get carried away with other stuff and has been ignoring the basics like improving tiles and founding cities.

[Hercules]

world map situation

Civs are closer than you think

[Dinner]

I would really rather we concentrate on building up our tiny civ right now instead of launching wars we aren't ready for. Our priority should be letting our cities grow to the pop limit followed by reaching the 1.5 workers to city ration, followed by founding those 10 cities we have space for. I know I'm not the only one to feel this way, several people have spoken up, so I would like to see some action here even if it means other goals get delayed. The stuff above is the most important.

[Hercules]

RB Insights 2

City French Riveria Size 5
Gr 1
Prod Lib 3
Gran
Ob

Garr: Settler

City Adventure One Capital size 13
Gr 2
Prod: Forge 13
P
Palace
gr
Ob
Lib
Market
Hindu Temple


City Single Life Size 6

gr 3
prod Forge 34

Gran
Ob
Lib

garr 1 Axe


City The Covenant size 5

gr 1
prod Lib 42

Gran
Ob


City Forbidden Fruit size 8

Gr 2
Prod Hindu Monastry

Gran
Forge
Ob
Lib
Theatre

City Mansa's Muse size 10

gr Stagnant
Prod Forge 7

Gran
Ob
Lib
Theatre
market
Wonders
Kashi
Sltone
GreatWall

City Cutting Edge size 6
gr 1
Prod Forge 26

Gran
OB

City Gourmet Menu Size 9

gr 2
Prod Market

Gran
Light
Forge
Ob
Lib
Wonder Great Lighthouse

Garr: Axe 1

City Eastern Dealers Size10

No info

City Let it Snow Size 1

No info.

City Starfall

No Info

[Hercules]

RB insights 2

City DitchDigger size 5

Growing (Gr) 2
Production (Pd) Courthouse 6

Buildings
Granary (G)
Obelisk (O)
Temple (T?)

Mil Garrison: Warchariot 1 Axe 1

City Horse Feather size 13

Gr 1
Pd Wchar

Mil Garr: Mace1, Catapult 4, Axe 1

City Brick by Brick Size 8

Gr 2
prod Wchar

Barracks
Gr
Forge
Ob
Theatre
ZEUS

Garrison: Spear 1 Axe1

City Tree Hugger

Gr 1
P 11rod Hindu Miss

Gran
Forge
Ob
Lib
Temp
Hindu Mon

Garr: Mace 1 Axe 1

City Focal Point size 8

gr 6
Prod Forge 1

barr
Gran
Ob
T
Shwedayan Paya ( Wonder)

Garr:?

City Seven Tribes Size 7
Gr 1
Prod Forge 1

Gran
Aqued
Ob
Lib
Theatre
Hanging Gardens

Garr: Spear1

[Hercules]

RB insights



Spy insights.

[Dinner]

Well I looked around:

Some things which need to change:

* As you said production is too low
* Still cities are massively underdeveloped

An excellent example is Ankara:



One of our older cities. This city can be POP14 (11+temple+hammam). It is 6! while it has the Moai Status.
And it is building wealth?! And even now we are not growing to the max. The cow tile is not used. And we are not using the copper tile..


* We are building wealth in two cities while we need workers and missionairies ???
* While we do need those workers, missionairies (and settlers) Apolyton is building an archer ? > change that for a worker and send this one to Ankara
* and you are talking about a massive drafting / slaving program? You will slave the entire economy to a halt.
* After 141 turns there is area within 5 tiles of our capital where 3 excellent resources and a massive amount of coastal tiles (we have the colossus) are unused.



Another one:


* Diyarbakir: a city which also has been around for a while. It has just slaved, no worker in sight, while only 2! tiles have been developed. We get 3 hammers, while there is a tile with marble! and an excellent hill tile. And a missionairy needs to go there, to get +25% production.

Great post. We simply MUST let our cities grow, develop those tiles, and build cities far faster. We have great locations right next to our capital which we haven't bothered to settle while MOST (not just some but MOST) of our cities don't have enough developed tiles. I honestly think we've got side tracked with other stuff and we need to get back to the basics. Build the cities, develop the tiles, and let the populations grow.

[mzprox]

I had a very lengthy discussion with India, I tried to convince them to abandon economics, but I couldn't.. They said the decision will be made next turn, but until then we should keep pushing our science rate.. (this doesn't mean too much, mostly to finish feudalism by next turn. I wanted to avoid this so Egypt wouldn't had got science bonus for it. )

[Dinner]

I like both of those ideas.