Destruction of Foes (DoF) - Diplogame Light

[mzprox]

I'm fine with either way, would be interesting to see how this would affekt the game.

(a note: try not to mix dof and non-dof accounts if possible, let's say only Robert is allowed to post non-annon He uses tricks to deceive us anyway ( )
For this "voting" use non-annon since we started that way)

[Portugal (DoF)]

Yes.

Not seen whole map yet of course but river valleys are good already. Giving lots of lake+lighthouse might be too much. So let them build ships but not lighthouse. Then lighthouse + lake is a rare treat need sea, not the standard for all these major river valleys.

Like idea of navigatable rivers, could be fun.

We need a coherent post - at beginning of a new org thread - with all the published stuff about map, mod and diplo-lite spirit. Wasn't there meant to be a sketch of the map provided too?

[Inca (DoE)]

On the other hand, a farm + grasslands + river = 3F 1C
An inland lake + lighthouse = 3F 2C

But then it doesn't require any worker turns to do, so maybe it's a bit destabilizing, especially for civs like Carthage that don't get them really.

[Robert]

Ozzy, can you mod this in?

[Carthage (DoF)]

My position on this is the following:

* navigable rivers: great
(even though I have none)

* build ships: ok
but only of types galley and workboat
(really big ships are not built on rivers)

* lighthouse: NO
(never in history have lighthouses been built on rivers; what's the point )

* colossos, great lighthouse, moai statues: NO

* harbour, customs house: prefer no


PS. I hope we stop modding soon!

[Egypt (DoF)]

I don't really like to use mods even if i had many ideas how to make the game better, because I think it's too easy to unbalance the game-on the other hand, usually the non-modded game is just as unbalanced .

About this proposal:
I say yes (or did I say that already? )
And I think we should be able to build up to destroyers (excluding the battleships and carriers maybe) for the reason that we allow all these kind of ships to enter this rivers. It is true they are not built riverside but they also don't go inland.

About buildings: I think there should be a building to increase food in inland lakes (if a city also coastal then it works on lakes, there is no reason that this effect should be restricted on coastal cities) inland lake is not a good tile, 3F2G would be okish.., BUT because of my stance of mods I say NO (if I modded the game I would mod in a building to do the same as the lighthouse)
harbor/custom house: I would say yes .. in my mod.., but again I prefer to play a less modded game.

[The Priest]

I think Carthage is right.

3G2C might not sound amazing, but if a Civ can get say 5-6 tiles of 3G2C with no worker effort and just whip one lighthouse, that is very powerful early game.

Ships - yes cut off somewhere - many towns/cities which were medieval ports on rivers are now not because of silting and ship size.

I'd allow habours and custom to keep a bit of a 'trading' flavour to these places, but could be argued.

Really need opinion of those who know the map. Whole issue doesn't matter - we can just get on with game - if the most a civ has is a couple of these tiles, or if everyone has some. But if a few civs have 5-6 and others none, tha would be unbalanced.

[OzzyKP]

It does seem this wasn't thought through very much, I apologize. The nature of these things is depending on the size of the chunk of river it could count as an ocean or a lake. So whether we do anything with the mod or not, that should be looked into to perform the same for everyone.

As for allowing ships to be build on lakes and not let the city build lighthouses, harbors, etc... I'm not sure how to do that. I could take a look, but it may delay us more. I'll see what I can do. I am resolutely opposed to allowing any ocean buildings to be built on the navigable rivers. Ships only. And only sail ships.

It is just a question of whether it can be done and I'm not sure.

[Egypt (DoF)]

I've posted the solution a few posts back. The unit xml should be edited at this part:
(iMinAreaSize)20(/iMinAreaSize)

The number means the min. size of the lake where the coastal city can build that unit. For land units this is -1, setting it to 1 would be good enough.

[Carthage (DoF)]

Let's get on with the game..

[Robert]

If civs that can't be reached by advanced ships can't build advanced ships, then that is unfair.
Therefore I disagree with allowing ship-building only for ancient/sailing ships.

If civ x builds 10 battleships and civ y can't build them but 5 of his cities can be reached by the 10 battleships of civ x, then he's helpless.

[Carthage (DoF)]

That would be an incentive to get to the sea,
as has been the incentive for Russia for hundreds of years..

[OzzyKP]

I've posted the solution a few posts back. The unit xml should be edited at this part:
(iMinAreaSize)20(/iMinAreaSize)

The number means the min. size of the lake where the coastal city can build that unit. For land units this is -1, setting it to 1 would be good enough.

Ah, perfect. That's easy then.

Also, since we are restarting with a new mod anyhow, shall we implement the no score mod?

[mzprox]

I agree, people, get a bit more active.. 3 players still haven't finished their turns.. you all know this will be 8hours/turn after the first one, right?
I did some testing with the no-score mod I've posted earlier, the part which eliminates scoring is a very small addition to the game. So if we restart for any reason I don't see why we shouldn't use it. It makes spying/scouting more useful, bluffing works better etc.

[OzzyKP]

Ok, changes made, everything seems to be working just fine. Download here:

http://www.oneandfour.org/files/civ/DestructionofFoes.7z