Destiny of Empires [Diplo Game] [Organization Thread]

[Russia (DoE)]

Just pause the game and PM Robert to avoid many other people playing their turns and then had to redo it all. It can be very very frustrating.

[America (DoE)]

Ok, I'll log in now and pause the game and PM Robert I'm sure we'll come to a sensible solution

[America (DoE)]

Hm, I just logged in, got a diplo screen, and then the connection to the pitboss was lost, and I am no longer able to log in...

[America (DoE)]

I PM'ed Robert about the server issue and the double move issue.

[Russia (DoE)]

Good then lets hope it finishes with happy end for all involved

[America (DoE)]

Excellent, I managed to log in and pause the game, so we wait for RP to make a decision about the double move.

[Ottoman Empire (DoE)]

OK. Pause and let host decide I just rather we agreed on what to do, because I host pitbosses myself and it is better for me when all parties agree on the way to do a reload or not do it... makes my job easier. It is sticky mediating, especially when you are playing

Two more points:
1. Even assuming Aztecs made no actions, just looked around, I would still want a reload, because at that point, they have info they use to plan actions for next turn and extra time to think about it. If Aztec had not logged in, they would potentially have to make decisions on the spot with no pre planning which could affect their choices. To illustrate, if I complain that I only had a few minutes to play before heading to work, and I couldn't pre plan because I couldn't log in to check the situation before going to bed so I played sloppy in the morning, what would you say? You would say too bad, that is how turn order works. And that is my point. Aztec logging in early robs me of the potential benefit of them making a bad decision because their planning time is limited. This brings me to the second point...

2. I was not suprised by Aztec attack. They implied it in the story thread. I moved Galleons with Rifles into Miami to defend and clicked unload but it didn't work, as in Rifles did not unload and I didn't notice. If I had seen Aztecs log in after me, I could have logged in after them to see if they advanced on the city or DoWed me. And i would have probably doublechecked my defenses in Miami as it was vunerable. I would have noticed that the Rifles didn't unload and unloaded them. That would have made things different.

My point is if reload happens as Aztec suggests, ie they get to correct their error of logging in early, then I should get to correct my error of not unloading the rifles. Otherwise reload should be to beginning of current turn and Aztecs move after me or wait until next turn to attack.

[Russia (DoE)]

I remember one occasion where after a non-intentional (and most probably non-profitable) doublemove by Arabia against Israel the host judged that a reload must be made, no matter if it makes difference or not and meanwhile a peace was secured between the two warring nations, so it made irrelevant the final outcome with or without the doublemove, so we have a good precedent.

Is the game paused after all as I dont want to miss my turn with all this mess? I saw the PYT uploader is running.

[OzzyKP]

So... just trying to parse all the back and forth... is this what happened?

Turn 1
Aztec move
Ottoman move
Aztec login to look around

Turn 2
Aztec move, declare war, capture Miami
Ottoman move

If this is what happened then... sorry Aztec, that is against the rules. Since there is no way to prove you just looked around, it counts as a double move. It sucks, I know. I never liked this rule, but it is too late to change it now.

If America is getting Miami back anyhow from the peace treaty, then the only real consequence in the game would be how many dead Aztec & Ottoman troops there are. The larger result will be the same.

[America (DoE)]

The peace treaty that is on the table is an unconditional surrender by the Ottomans. Which would mean that all American cities will be returned to American control. So with that knowledge, I am now wondering what the best course of action will be after the reload? I suppose that should be worked out between the Ottomans and the Aztecs?

[Russia (DoE)]

Unconditional surrender

That is what I call U-turn of the war course in a second

[Aztecs (DoE)]

So... just trying to parse all the back and forth... is this what happened?

Turn 1
Aztec move
Ottoman move
Aztec login to look around

Turn 2
Aztec move, declare war, capture Miami
Ottoman move

If this is what happened then... sorry Aztec, that is against the rules. Since there is no way to prove you just looked around, it counts as a double move. It sucks, I know. I never liked this rule, but it is too late to change it now.

Yes this is what happened. And yes that is a crappy rule: as this would solve it:


Turn 1
Aztec move
Ottoman move
RELOAD

Turn 2
Aztec move, declare war, capture Miami
Ottoman move

[America (DoE)]

Unconditional surrender

That is what I call U-turn of the war course in a second

Well, not really; there was a lot of talk behind the scenes And in this case surrender means, not surrender but treaty, sorry, bad choice of words. So, it means the Ottomans will be allowed to retreat, but will have to give up the cities they took. Not so much a u-turn, but just simply a failed conquest.

Yes this is what happened. And yes that is a crappy rule: as this would solve it:


Turn 1
Aztec move
Ottoman move
RELOAD

Turn 2
Aztec move, declare war, capture Miami
Ottoman move

That does seem better, if the Ottomans agree with that as well.

[Aztecs (DoE)]

@ Russia: in the story thread there's a quote from the sultan:

Notice to All Nations:

The Sultan has authorized an offer of unconditional peace to America. Following their acceptance, he will have a formal statement issued. This will contain all the relevant information concerning this conflict. The Sultan appreciates the patience, of the international community as he proceeded with his wedding, as well as all the gifts and well wishes he has recieved during his joyous occasion.

Taner, High Messenger to the Sultan

[Ottoman Empire (DoE)]

That does seem better, if the Ottomans agree with that as well.

No, I do not agree. As I said before, Aztec logging in after me was not against the rules. The only thing that was against the rules was Aztec DoW on Ottomans the next turn BEFORE I had taken my turn. So I maintain that this is the ONLY thing that needs to be undone. The current turn should be reloaded. Aztec can then move first if they want, they just cant move first AND DoW.

Under your proposal the Aztec mistake would be selectively corrected while I would have to swallow mine. Cant accept that, sorry.

Also, I cant confirm the terms on the table since we dont know whether Washington is getting razed or not which will depend on the reload and Aztec actions after, etc... I'm sure that will drastically affect everyones willingness to make terms. Also, I sent all my terms in private and IC I will keep it that way. America is making the terms public for some great IC reasons