Destiny of Empires [Diplo Game] [Organization Thread]

[America (DoE)]

Americans. No worries at all. I thought the way you quoted my terms was great storytelling and totally appropriate to your IC needs... great stuff keep it up

Thanks I meant the last terms, about the unconditional treaty that I put in the org thread, which led to some surprise with the Russians, would have been better to wait until the double move issue has been resolved and then put it in a story post, which will of course happen, but now I spoiled the surprise thinking it might be important for resolving the double move issue (which it may well be, but I could have discussed that in PM's); you're right, the other treaty proposals were (ab)used by us poor Americans to rally support

And I am definitely enjoying this diplo game as well, it's very very cool how this is all turning out, all the intrigue, the passion etc, great stuff

[India (DoE)]

which turn are we talking about reloading to? I had a decisive sea battle in 1732 that I can not accept be undone.

[America (DoE)]

Did somebody unpause the game again...? According to PYT, a lot of people logged in after me.

[India (DoE)]

I have logged in to take some screens, but I did not unpause the game. Will log in again and pause.

that is strange, I paused the game, but it does not seem to be stopped according to playyourturn.com

is there anything else I have to do aside from hitting "Pause"??

[America (DoE)]

cool

[Robert]

reading now.....

[France (DoE)]

Just finished reading all this.

I understand the call to have those involved settle the issue, but I would argue that the two mistakes involved are quite different. Making a mistake in-game, by moving to the wrong tile, or not unloading troops, is, IMHO, very different than logging in a second time as the Aztecs did. But I leave it up to Ozzy.

(then again, he is the same guy who got the topless picture rule wrong. )

Speaking of in-game mistakes, I remember a good one a number of games ago. I was moving a settler when our cat walked across my keyboard, hitting the 'S' key placing a city not where I wanted it, and which became a serious diplomatic issue. Thomas, the cat in question, at least made it into the story thread as the local and very inept governor who was soon sacked by the Emperor.

[China (DoE)]

Just finished reading all this.

I understand the call to have those involved settle the issue, but I would argue that the two mistakes involved are quite different. Making a mistake in-game, by moving to the wrong tile, or not unloading troops, is, IMHO, very different than logging in a second time as the Aztecs did. But I leave it up to Ozzy.

(then again, he is the same guy who got the topless picture rule wrong. )

Speaking of in-game mistakes, I remember a good one a number of games ago. I was moving a settler when our cat walked across my keyboard, hitting the 'S' key placing a city not where I wanted it, and which became a serious diplomatic issue. Thomas, the cat in question, at least made it into the story thread as the local and very inept governor who was soon sacked by the Emperor.

[Robert]

Indisputable Decision

I have read all posts and understand the difficult situation.
It seems like both involved parties made a human mistake:

- Ottomans made an in-game mistake (not unloading armies)
- Aztecs made an illegal double move (after they did a 2nd peek-login which destroyed their first position in the turn order)

Usually the Ottoman mistake would be an "oooops, that sucks for you but there's nothing we can do about it" situation.
Usually the Aztec mistake would be undone by a reload in which the double move occurred.

Now the Aztecs did something that *might* not have given them an advantage (we must believe them). In that case we normally would consider to do a reload like the Aztecs suggested. A reload that undoes the '2nd peek login' but doesn't give the Ottomans the opportunity to counter the attack with the knowledge he has now.

That is what Ozzy and mzprox both suggested / agreed with.

Now we can spend hours and days to discuss if this reload would be the best thing to, even if the Ottomans made a mistake as well that they want to be undone. It would be a Solomons ruling to make. In that case I would, as the best thing next to Solomon (since he's not here), rule to reload just before the Aztec peek-login b/c that's what mzprox (independent observer) and OzzyKP (co-game leader) suggested.

BUT that option is not possible because I do not have such a save file. The only two save files I have are:
- Ottoman login save (before the 2nd peek login of the Aztecs)
- Arabian login save (after the 2nd peek login of the Aztecs)
And those are all saves I have of the past turns. (and the Russian login, but that occurs before the Ottomans logged in, so it's irrelevant). All other saves are undone by civs logging in during this turn, overwriting their login save.

So what I now decide to do is to reload the game by using the OTTOMAN AUTO LOGIN SAVE of the past turn.
That means that the Ottomans have to play their turn again. (and all players that played after the Ottomans).

It gives a chance to both the Ottomans AND the Aztecs to undo their mistakes.
I think it's a fair decision because after all the Aztecs are responsible themselves for creating the confusion. They should simply not have logged in. I may sympathize with them (not for who they are but for what they did: make a silly mistake), and for pragmatic reasons that may have caused in the reload the Aztecs suggested. But that's not possible.

The other option would be a reload of the current turn.
But by reloading past turn at the beginning of the Ottomans login both parties have a chance to undo their mistakes.

This decision can't be disputed.
Not because it's perfect but just only because some decision has to be made.
I'm starting the server now, will take some time, give it 10 minutes at least.

[Ottoman Empire (DoE)]

Oops cross posted with RP, apologies. Ignore my blah blah if you already saw it.

Thanks for your time deciding Robert, I don't envy your position.

Please pause for me as I am at work.

[Robert]

Somebody pause for him. I've used 90% of my foreign data limit on my phone already today.

[America (DoE)]

Ok, will login now and pause!

EDIT: I am also the first in the turn order, so I should do my turn now and then pause, right? Please confirm before I do anything stupid

[America (DoE)]

Anyone?

[Aztecs (DoE)]

I can imagine it was a hard decision.
But the ruling has been done, and I'll live with it.

(learned a hard lesson as a first time pitboss player > that even before a war, and without even moving during a log in, it is possible to make a double move..)

Obviously it would be chivalrous of the Ottoman player to either play his turn as he originally intended, or to load in his troops and sail away.

[Russia (DoE)]

Nope, you must be played your turn already in that turn - it is the turn before all this Aztec-Turkey Miami stuff happened.