Destiny of Empires [Diplo Game] [Organization Thread]

[Russia (DoE)]

Continuing to twist the things to your liking isnt making any good. Even the facts from the history you deny.

Check this out - those sums are exactly after the WW2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Peace_Treaties,_1947

Anyway, I will come later in the day to play my turn, I leave the townfor the only free day in the week for me . I am a bit sad by Vikings leaving and dont feel like playing around with hypothetical terms right at this point. See- they have real excuse for leaving the game, what you suggest that others would have leaved the game if at your place, just dont make sense. Mongolia is still playing, England is still playing, Turkey is still playing, India is still playing.

Yes, I admit your situation is dire, but you are not doing it any better. I said it many times, will say it once again: If I felt you truly wanted to befriend me, the technical details wont matter any more. I have tons of examples from the real history.

But we will argue later.

[Germany (DoE)]

and

I guess we've all been there and all of us judge things differently... I really respect those that hang on in there and certainly understand those that need to leave for RL or whatever reasons...

[Israel (DoE)]

@Russia:
In the past we have had civs going zealoat after losing 1 city, they refused to talk and just started to 'wage war forever'.
Then the 'agressor' had no option but continueing the war. That's what the 'reasonable' refers to.
Israel was never a zealoat civ like this. We always continued to talk and made offers for peace and counter offers.

Your point is that the offers you made were good and you still try to convince me that the were.
The thing is that I honestly thought that they weren't good enough for me.
Negotiation comes from two sides, what is acceptable for two sides. You asked way too much from me.
I really wanted peace.

I cannot remember any situation in the history of diplogaming where any civ paid 6000 gold after losing the war already and losing 1,5 cities.

(the numbers you give are from the end of WW1, after WW2 Germany got money from the USA as a matter of fact, marshall help)

When I refer to your 'paranoia' I mean that everything was always explained into the negative by you.
You didn't believe that 400gpt was the most money I could make
you didn't believe that I could really upgrade those canons
you didn't believe I had real peace intentions b/c I was upgrading catapults
you kept insisting that Israel was a backstabbing nation (ignoring the entire Turkey/Israel conflict since the razing of Jerusalem).

When I was negotiating you gave me one offer (6000 gold) insisting that I couldn't be trusted and did not really want peace anyway.
That I did not accept that one offer doesn't mean that I was stubborn. And that's what the rule refers to.

I'd even bet that there would be no other player in any of the diplogames that would even continue from this point or would not have left the game earlier already.

Can you now please stop saying how wrong I am and just say: "Ok, we indeed went over the top here"
I do not ask any reloads or anything else. I just point to the obvious. What happened to Israel is just way over the top. First with the razing of Jerusalem, now this.

[Russia (DoE)]

Sorry to hear this, Viking. You proved to be worthy foe.

Wives, what we can do... I even teach mine to play civ and this worked for quite long time.

But hey, civ is far better than being football fan for example. I asked my wife to look at it as my hobby. Way to release the steam.

[Israel (DoE)]

@England:
peace offers:
* made to Israel
1. give up Ekron to Turkey (accepted by Israel)
2. give up Sidon to Mali (accepted and done by Israel)
3. give about 6000 gold and Ekron (refused)

*made by ISrael
4. Israel becomes a vasal to Russia (refused by Russia)
5. give about 3000 gold (refused by Russia)
6. give Bethlehem up (refused by Turks/Russia)

So there were 6 possible peace suggestions, 5 were acceptable to Israel, 1 was acceptable to Russia/Turkey.
That one offer received a counter offer.
All 6 offers were of course more complicated then described above but this describes more or less the nature of the 6 offers.
So England, what you say just makes no sense at all.

Especially if you add to that that when that 6000 gpt offer was made Israel didn't even know yet that Mali and Russia were about to attack him as well.

Many peace offers were made, very fair ones considering the damage Israel did

Worst nonsense ever.
Israel's action did not more then end the life of like 20 units.
Your view of what is 'very fair' is absurd like always.
Especially if you consider that the Turks took Israel's holy city and already razed Ekron and took Hebron after we killed their 20 units.
And made peace after that which they broke immediately.

*sigh* your bias is bigger then the universe, as always.

[Vikings (DoE)]

Hi dear FRIENDS/Allies/Enemies,

I am sorry but i will have to plug out from Civ IV and DOE. Being having some issues with my wife over it during the last few years lol.

I guess we guys always have to do the compromises.

Anyway I am sorry to be leaving at such an important stage for the game.

Now many of you know me very well, you know that I am a loyal ally/friend in each game i play:

I ask that either France or Germany subs for my civ, I want the vikings to continue to be part of the ACE alliance, thus i want a ACE member to continue to sub for me, use Money/Units all i own to help the ACE. If i had continued to play i would help/contribute/assist with all i can my allies.

I want all Vikings matters to be decided by my alliance. I put my civ's faith into their hands.


This game was a big part of me

Many of you will understand my actions I hope.

[England (DoE)]

The more I learn about the peace negotiations the more deceptive and unreasonable Israel looks. Many peace offers were made, very fair ones considering the damage Israel did, and they rejected all of them. The peace deals were made even more sympathetic to Israel, and they rejected them too. All the while building up their forces. It seems plain that they were merely talking about peace to stall for time while they tried to fight back. Which is not good faith negotiating and Russia/Ottomans have no obligation to treat you fairly when you weren't treating them fairly.

That being said there is nothing in their offers that was unfair. I still don't like that they took your capitol, but you left them no choice. We English also have an expression: "You made your bed, now lie in it."

And with all your duplicity you dare compare your situation to that of England?

[France (DoE)]

Thank you for sharing. success in the new studies. Waiting.

Finally. A voice of reason.

[Russia (DoE)]

OK, I'm going to the bed, but still I dont see you really want peace. You keep talking about fighting and defending and such. If you are not surrendering, this means you are absolutely fine and you needn't waste any pity.

[Russia (DoE)]

It makes no sense to make peace with a lot of demands and then think that the other party will not want to get back at you.

This is true if the past relations are clear. I have vested my trust in you twice and you have betrayed me twice. How could I handle you differently the third time?

[Russia (DoE)]

- friendship = giving back everything the other civ lost

Also, my Catherine told in her interview what she thinks it must to be done. Israel will get its cities which Russia takes back once Rabbi is handled to Russia.

[Russia (DoE)]

- friendship = giving back everything the other civ lost (end WW2)

Oh, my - who told you this propaganda? Germany was divided in two. Also they lost territories - Kaliningrad and so on - I dont know them all.

And ALL the losing countries have paid huge amounts of money:

War reparations at 1938 prices:

* USD 360,000,000 from Italy:
o USD 125,000,000 to Yugoslavia;
o USD 105,000,000 to Greece;
o USD 100,000,000 to the Soviet Union;
o USD 25,000,000 to Ethiopia;
o USD 5,000,000 to Albania.
* USD 300,000,000 from Finland to the Soviet Union;
* USD 300,000,000 from Hungary:
o USD 200,000,000 to the Soviet Union;
o USD 100,000,000 to Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia.
* USD 300,000,000 from Romania to the Soviet Union;
* USD 70,000,000 from Bulgaria:
o USD 45,000,000 to Greece;
o USD 25,000,000 to Yugoslavia.

[Russia (DoE)]

Russia, you only reason from your own point of view.
You never place yourself into Israel's shoes. You have all those reasons of why I should have paid you the money. But those are all from your own POV.

I had reasons why I thought that Russia would never invade Israel with the Turks. Apparently I was wrong.
Negotiating and diploing means that you try to understand your enemy. You still think that from my POV it would have been better if....
Well to start with, when we were negotiating I had no idea that both Russia AND Mali would invade me as well. I thought it would be just the Turks.

Here you sound more logical to me and I agree with what you say. But then again - what was your reasons you not to think I will attack you? If you never know I dont think of you as a friend anymore, then you are failing to see the things from my POV. And also dont read carefully the stories.

And as I just cant stop myself - to follow your mysterious (or not so much mysterious) way of saying the things - I told you not once, but 3 or 4 times, that your refusal will lead to utter destruction of Israel, I told you you are facing powers beyond your imagination... did I not said this to you? Why you did not get me correct? How Russia is going to be a world power and a banner for the half world if someone can play me for a fool and betrays me, and messes with my plans and refuses and threatens me repetitively? How you think this can happen? Why would Christian Russia have so much sentiments about Israel, who is laughing at our beliefs and making money from them? How is the mighty Christian Russia, protector of the faith, contributed 1 Pope, will look at Israel, who keeps insulting their Savior Jesus Christ, claiming he did not resurected, but was killed by Turkish soldiers outside of Jerusalem when it was captured? I understand that politics sometimes are more important than religion and since I respect Arabia's religion and allowed them to spread it in Russia and Vikings and even helped them, they were grateful to Russia. But what can Russia feels about you when you are infidels, traitors and friend of our enemies? Um? And yet I offered you my friendship many times.

Oh, and dont say that Arabia is at war with you - they are not at war with anyone.

Question for you: why did you not accept Bethlehem.
I think that from your IC POV it should be an excellent gain from war, you being this christian nation.
So why was it not a good offer, IC?

I think I answered this already.

[Russia (DoE)]

If you would have offered Jerusalem in exchange of all of Israel I would have accepted most probably (though I never wanted to put it on the table myself)

Oh, stop it - I offered it twice to you, but then you had the French army to back your claims, so you decided to bet on them. And you lost again. Then I supposed that once we are friends again I will plead to the Turks and we will find a way to compensate them. Instead of taking my offer, you decided to bet on the Neanderthal forged steel cannon barrels and you lost again.

We, the Slavs have another saying "Who has no luck in the gambling, have a lot of luck in the love." You or Rabbi must be very, very lucky man whn it comes to love

[Russia (DoE)]

Weird, in SP games it doesn't work like that I think...

I think it gaps exactly the same way, but might be wrong.