New type of diplo game

[Sumeria (DoD)]

Babylon, I apologise but I overlooked any possible DM, I am perfectly happy for a re-load, but I can assure you that where I hit you that you could have done nothing at all about it. Without any aircraft or airship screen you had already missed the chance to do anything.

[Byzantium (DoD)]

Strider of Gondor is astounded by the Sumerian actions of apparent genocide. Gilgamesh, can we meet at the earliest opportunity please.

Gondor's pact with Sumeria and Mongolia remains as all other areas of policy are shared and friendly and Gondorian troops will remain in Sumeria for defensive purposes - although some have been recalled as the world increasingly militarises. The 3 way pact serves for defensive purposes only and Gondor distances itself from any aggressive action.

The Hindustanis have become a more moderate nation in recent years and Gondor urges diplomacy. War is abhorrent and if all nations operated on the basis of defense there would be no wars.

Strider.

[deity]

Don't forget the rules of this game don't reload for DM's.

I just urge all to play fair and in this case it seems it was an oversight as we have a good team here who do try and avoid the DM. Be on the ball everyone from here on in. Check PYT to make sure of the previous turn order PRIOR to attacking.

NO RELOAD I'm afraid.

[Robert]

Sumeria, can you explain with screenshots how the DM didn't give you an advantage?

[Egypt (DoD)]

Egypt loves war.. we believe in its purpose to make us better, stronger.. but genocide doesn't serve this purpose.
During our war with Babylon we had the opportunity to destroy all of their coastal cities, they even left them undefended because they knew we wouldn't do that, and they were right, we left them even when we knew they continue to produce troops against us.
We said we would not be part in an invasion against Babylon, and we also said we would support a military action if that's the decision of others. So we shall stay neutral for now, but we demand that the city razing must stop.
It's now noted that the so called non aligned world consists of incompetent diplomats and mass murderers..

Desertlord

[Babylon (DoD)]

This is utter bollocks.

As if you don't notice you are double moving. Oh lets move all my ships in close to attack positions, then oh lets declare war and move them again and capture cities.

And what does everyone say? Collective head sticking in the sand, other than the always reasonable RP.

Spout some self-justifying nonesense about well it didn't make a difference, suddenly giving my destroyers 16 movement points, and my transports 12.

Ignore the issue, lets just cover it up with IC talk.

Or say 'well i urge people to play fair but it doesn't matter if people don't' and woffle some blatently untrue stuff about people trying to avoid double moves.

Utter bollocks.

[Egypt (DoD)]

I did not say anything because if it's not against the rules there is not much point.. There was not even a consensus between players that the turn before the war counts or not, I have always said it does..some others even after a long argument did not accept it..
So I wouldn't had done it, but it is also quite possible that it did not make difference-if you had no chance to detect the transport and it also should be noted that if Sumeria had waited you both would had missed the whole turn.
I still don't like it, but I don't see other option than let it have in-game consequences..

[Rome (DoD)]

I agree that the double move shouldn't have happened.
I wouldn't mind to reload, but deity is right that we agreed that it would be a rule-less game. It's a code of honour.
I do believe Sumeria if he says that he did it by accident.

Please always double or triple check before declaring war!!!!!

I agree with in-game consequences more then ooc consequences, after all we agreed upon a code of honour rather then a rule.
I think that everybody agreed to include the turn-before in this code of honour as well. And I do not believe that Sumeria is argueing that. He just made a mistake.

[deity]

Setting aside our playing rules I do not like to see a player this upset and will agree to a reload if all others agree?

We should all be having fun and if this ruins Bab's fun then let's make a decision to reload.

This is utter bollocks.

As if you don't notice you are double moving. Oh lets move all my ships in close to attack positions, then oh lets declare war and move them again and capture cities.

And what does everyone say? Collective head sticking in the sand, other than the always reasonable RP.

Spout some self-justifying nonesense about well it didn't make a difference, suddenly giving my destroyers 16 movement points, and my transports 12.

Ignore the issue, lets just cover it up with IC talk.

Or say 'well i urge people to play fair but it doesn't matter if people don't' and woffle some blatently untrue stuff about people trying to avoid double moves.

Utter bollocks.

[Rome (DoD)]

I support a reload. But only if it would make a difference.

[Egypt (DoD)]

I don't mind reloading, if that's what you think the best, though It could bring up other problems

[Babylon (DoD)]

1. I appreciate people's clear recognition that what happened was wrong and broke the code of honour we agreed to play by.

2. Please note I have never asked for a reload because our rules are clear that we wouldn't reload.

3. I can't engage in the questoin of whether it was a genuine mistake or not. I know who Sumaria is, as I guess we all know who each other are, and I don't want to turn this into something personal. I find it incomprehensible. There is more that could be said, but its not going to help.

4. What we said was that in-game consequences would be used in such cases not occ reloads etc. We re-echoed that when the Vikings in an idential play doubled moved a declaration of war against me two wars ago - in-game responses not occ, but as far as I can see that was empty words. So forgive me for being annoyed when two wars later, exactly the same thing happens and exactly the same hollow sounding words are the immediate response.

5. What do we do now? Genuine mistake or not, it had in-game consequences. But I content to stick to the rules we agreed, that we don't reload, given that there has now been some acknowledgement that what happened was wrong, and I'll trust folks that when they say in-game consequences they mean it. I also suggest that I now move flipping the order back. Of course this can't reverse the consequences of what happened but is something.

Before doing that, because that would be a double-move on my part, I'll give it a few hours to allow people to come back, though I don't want to run out too much of the timer since Sumaria would then still need to play.

[Rome (DoD)]

Thanks, Babylon/Hindustan.
There's no DM rule, so you could grab the first spot in the order back. I assume that everybody will think that's within the code of honour. In fact it does the same as a reload, without Sumeria having a chance to lose the attack. And Sumeria already agreed to reload.

BTW, I do not believe that anybody experienced in diplogames (and all current players are!) would do a DM on purpose, b/c we all know that it will come out 100% of the time, and it'll only remove the suprise of the attack.

I know who Sumaria is, as I guess we all know who each other are

I seriously don't know who anybody is, but you and Egypt. I have a guess for the Mongols, and that's it. I love it!

[deity]

This makes sense.

Thanks, Babylon/Hindustan.
There's no DM rule, so you could grab the first spot in the order back. I assume that everybody will think that's within the code of honour. In fact it does the same as a reload, without Sumeria having a chance to lose the attack. And Sumeria already agreed to reload.

BTW, I do not believe that anybody experienced in diplogames (and all current players are!) would do a DM on purpose, b/c we all know that it will come out 100% of the time, and it'll only remove the suprise of the attack.

I know who Sumaria is, as I guess we all know who each other are

I seriously don't know who anybody is, but you and Egypt. I have a guess for the Mongols, and that's it. I love it!

And I agree with myself, er I mean Rome on all this

It's entirely up to you Babs. Grab the turn order and no one will complain (OR reload if you wish).

Sorry if I sounded a bit cavalier earlier.

After the game is over I suggest for fun that everyone posts who they think each civ is... the winner is the one who gets the most correct...

[Robert]

After the game is over I suggest for fun that everyone posts who they think each civ is... the winner is the one who gets the most correct...

Can people who are already eliminated (GRRRR @ Sumeria) also join this guesspetition?