The Dance of Civilizations [Diplo Game] [Organization Thread Pt1]

[OzzyKP]

I agree, which is why I'm not protesting ooc that Inca is attacking me, bold move And, for my part; you can defend with military, but you can also defend with diplomacy and rhetoric. I like the second method, and it seems to have worked, at least, until you guys started complaining Which is fine as well, apparently we are not all on the same line regarding this issue, so it's good to talk about it now, at least we then know in the future where we all stand. Better have this happening now in a relatively small conflict as compared to a bigger war.

Oh yea, I don't blame you for anything. You played it very well.

I wish Inca had made some attempt to get some allies of his own to join his side.

[OzzyKP]

Btw, if any of you want to try something new (not abandon this game of course) I'm looking into starting a new diplogame:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?t=190009

[Byzantium (DoC)]

So much untruth being spoken.

The wisest thing said is Egypt's: "First of all, I think it's not right that parties who have no real knowledge of what is going on are judging this situation while it is actually still going on. "

I tear my hair out at reading things like:

There have formed 3-4 large blocs which have existed all game ...

What we see here is not temporary military alliances, we are looking at near-permanent continent-spanning unity...

Byzantium has formed a nice ring of satelite states, and so has England.

What block have I been in all game? Who came to my aid when I fought Greece, Russia/Persia/Ottomans and India? Nobody. Not a problem, I've been strong enough (just! in respect of India's first invasion) to look after myself.

What continent spanning unity existed when India invaded Byzantium?

What satelite states do I have? The Greeks, the weakest nation on earth supposedly are launching an ongoing massive cultural war against me.

I recognise that there are one or two blocks that seem to have lasted throughout the game. I can understand why Russia feels it has suffered much from one of them. But universalising that to the whole game simply isn't true.

Now I have satalite states which are damaging the game. Last voting time I was given a low vote because I was "quite an isolated nation; 3" apparently. Damned if you do, damned if you don't - or more to the point damned for both when you are doing neither!

[Byzantium (DoC)]

More significantly, for the future, I would re-echo the suggestion I made when we were setting rules for DOC that we should ban all unit gifts. Its lending armies which makes this 'alliances' thing so potent, and unrealistic. (Nobody does 'lend' armies in this world).

It would need to be chewed round a bit. Does this mean all units or just military ones? Does it have to be a complete ban, or can it be more subtle like our rule on cities isn't a ban on gifting them, but a ban on receiving them back etc. And i am sure it needs to be discussed for the future not for this game.

Of course, that wouldn't stop large blocks having a major impact on the shape of the game, but it would remove the possibility of rather insiduous, hidden, and completely unrealistic activity. For example, no criticism of the people involved at all since it is within our rules but the whole 'is Persia shipping troops to Russia or not' bit of my war with Russia was unrealistic and I believe unhelpful long-term. Better for the game (and the story-telling since it can then be more honest) if in that situation Persia had had to declare war, with all the diplo fall out, if it wanted to supply troops.

[India (DoC)]

Hmm a big Taoist alliance.. it may had worked actually.. half of the nations are Taoist now and I could have had good relations with them...but I never really wanted that, not the type of game most of us like.
To answer Russia, what is winning the game anyway? in diplo scores, ingame victory or both? If it would be just ingame, then yes I think I could say that probably I had the best chance to win by space race if I just sit home, be nice to everyone and not sending my slaved army to fight a war with no possible gain far away. That war is a good example btw that technology is not everything.
I may win the game (talking about ingame victory) or not.. , but what really interest me is to see if my evil high priests will be stopped or not.
Just one more ooc thing to the "small" nations: you don't really have to fear from India (ooc-Ic you should ofc )-I won't really hurt anyone-too much. When I made my demand to Egypt I wrote them ooc that even if we will be at war I will try to avoid to damge their economy and I definately wont take land/cities from them. Ofc if I'm winning I expect them to surrender, but then I wouldnt care if they attack me behind, help my enemies, rebell, whatever.

[Persia (DoC)]

As far as I can see we're in a pretty balanced game.

But for the record, Persia is not, and has never been, in any game-long alliance.
I've been allied with Russia till they... well....you know
And since then I'm more or less allied with the Ottomans and to a lesser degree with the Byzantine. But even these two alliances are not set in stone.

[Byzantium (DoC)]

Hmm a big Taoist alliance.. it may had worked actually.. half of the nations are Taoist now and I could have had good relations with them

Until you turned into a blood sucking murderous vampire queen, and then saw your evil for what it is ... damn forgot this was meant to be ooc...

But India is right, the Tao block is not really a block ... and its not really very Tao! And block or not its been great for the game.

[India (DoC)]

Until you turned into a blood sucking murderous vampire queen, and then saw your evil for what it is ... damn forgot this was meant to be ooc...

But India is right, the Tao block is not really a block ... and its not really very Tao! And block or not its been great for the game.

We have told you thousands of years ago that we will crush the non-believers.. it just took time untill you started to think we are serious . Soon we will have to investigate who are just Taoist, simply having Tao as state religion or true followers of the Sha'Tao

[Ottoman Empire (DoC)]

Just for the record...

I find everything perfectly fine as it's just like RL, anything can happen!

In RL, the world is carved into blocs (Hastog, Tao) and very rarely there do exist independent swing nations (Byzantium), and then also smaller independents who have weaker alliances that can sway depending on the situation (Arabia, Greece).

So to me, this is fantastic, very realistic!

You always have a choice of action, no matter what. It's true that some nations find themselves in difficult positions, but this is realistic! Due to decisions you've made in past you find yourself in your current position!

[Korea (DoC)]

As the commentator on the old Batman TV Series would dasy..

just stay tuned,,, Same Bat Channel , same bat time !!!!!

[Inca (DoC)]

For your records.

Inca did have very big reason for war. Inca have bigger reason not to share reason. Never big war of conquest just aim for 1 city so should not need ally. Inca have 100% spying on Egypt for over 500 years so no hidden troops or citys. Expected maybe Korean piracy or england attacking but not that egypts army grows 5 times in 1 turn. Immediate spy attacks from korea their troops moving over my land plus Indian fleet on way make impossible odds to continue war. I know war a big risk but not unfair war as inca not much bigger and does not have gunpowder.

Please do not argue this any more as i have no bad will against anyone.

[Korea (DoC)]

jsut to set record straight, we were not spying you. our knight and explorer were on way to egypt, your closing borsdees just sped that up..

and Korea has rejected piracy...

[Russia (DoC)]

meh, I just feel there's a certain level of stagnation and that certain big civs are working hard to keep it like that.

I'm gonna shut up and go back to focusing on my stories and diplomacy again.

[Korea (DoC)]

ill send you PM and explain it all to you shortly ....

will opne your eyes...

[India (DoC)]

It seems the war ended, can we go back to shorter turns, please?