The Dance of Civilizations [Diplo Game] [Organization Thread Pt1]

[Orb (DoC)]

Less I'm mistaken hasn't Inca pledged not to stop?? But a shorter timer would be nice again. I do miss playing twice a day

[Byzantium (DoC)]

My understanding is that the Inca-English war, which is where war broke out, is far from over.

[Korea (DoC)]

Have you seen the map the Persians have published milady? It is truly amazing. How they have managed to portray our empires as equals, how they portray our attack as a backstab all the while praising Hastogian virtues of might makes right. It is like they are mad with too many voices shouting within their heads.

-I know Roza, but luckily my dear husbands explorers have finished their mappings of Persia Major. Publish the map and send copies to all leaders of the world, I am certain that everyone would be much interested in these exotic and foreign lands.

must be confusing in persia to have so many citys named Persicity

[Russia (DoC)]

I can run on a short timer.

[Korea (DoC)]

wrong thred

[Korea (DoC)]

edit by RP, moved from story thread to here. this post is more ooc then ig.

korea is never wrong...

All those who traded techs with the top 4 are simply pawns in making those top 4 ****** and stronger.

They have ruined any chance of a balnced world.

They think because they allied with the eventual biggest that they have done well.

Well Korea speaks its mind to its own detriment we know, but we follow no one. We are no ones pawns. We may be fooled but we do not willingly give up that which is the worlds right.

The right to fun... and i know all ready many are fooling tthemselves.

I have already recieved word from many experts that this world faces only one ending. Is is not destined to be it is being made to happen that keep allowing the top 4 to dominate by giving them freebies.

It is not needed to have war and other aggresive action , just to stop being so free.

[Persia (DoC)]

edit by RP: moved from story thread to here.


ooc: I don't buy this 'big is mean' thing. Persia gave away 3 vouchers freely and we helped our 3 neighbours to get galleons so that they could colonize the world. We did this with the purpose to help them grow strong.

The role playing aspect of this game will be lost if smaller civs will blame 'big civs' with prejustice because they're big. And I will immediately stop helping smaller civs to grow and to ballance if the result is that these smaller civs will attack me anyway and accuse me of maniuplation b/c I GIVE THEM GIFTS.

Now big civs get accused of either
- you do imbalance the game by not being good to smaller civs by not giving them vouchers
or
- you manipulate small civs by giving them vouchers and goodies.

Of course I use my contacts with neighbors to reach my goals. That's what we all do, right? Big or small civs. But I on purpose decided to deal with my small neighbors on a base of equality and sharing my good position by giving them vouchers, all techs they wanted (for vouchers), armies and galleon upgrades.

Now I know that next game I'd better secure my borders, give not out any goodies, do not help small civs if they are attacked and colonize the new worlds myself. Then I would most probably be able to compete with India.

The lesson you small civs teach me so far is: Don't be good to your neighbors, they'll hate you anyway b/c you're big (jealousy, and you, Korea are the worst). That's ok, next game I'll be bad and I won't give out any freebies. To hell with role playing. I'll just play it as a single player game. It doesn't pay off to be good anyway.

I love this war with Russia! I don't blame Russia for attacking me! I don't care if I lose.
What I do really dislike though is that I am now blamed for things that are not fair and which is nothing more then a "small civs vs big civs" campaign that has NOTHING to do with role playing anymore.

But maybe that's what the small civs want. Big civs vs small civs.
Ok, India, England and Byzantium, shall we form an alliance then?
Nah, I prefer role playing.

[Persia (DoC)]

This game is supposed to be a role playing game.
Can everyone please stick to the role playing approach and abandon the the jealousy approach?

1. the 'big civs should help small civs' is NOT a role playing approach. Role playing = there are big civs and there are small civs. And Belgium doesn't hate Germany either b/c Germany is big.

2. Since the beginning of the game I have tried all the time to help my small neighbors and ballance the game. I do not accept it if right now everybody acts like I am a selfish player anyway.

Yes, Persia plays this "big mean selfish" role in the game.
That's fine, fight it in-character if you want.
But the facts are that Persia has been very kind and nice to the small civs around it. I tried to hide that by writing big fat selfish brag stories, b/c that's my ROLE!
Now I'm being accused OOC for being a OOC selfish player, which is simply not true.

Don't mix OOC up with IG!!!!!!!
Or I have no other choice but drop my role and adopt a nice boring holy attitude civ while I just continue to do the same.

[Greece (DoC)]

sorry you all for missing my turns.... i'm now on vacation not much internet, a stressy family visit schedule and forgetting my civ DVD everywhere. i'll probably be able to play this turn..

[Robert]

All: Please keep the Story Thread In Character.
Talking about "top 4 players" and "ballanced game" is not in-character. It can be discussed here, ooc, if wanted.
Also ooc-responses to these posts should be made in this thread.

[Rome (DoC)]

I put forward that every jealous statement I made was in character. A small nation can be helped by a big one, even a big one that in all ways behaves nicely, and still feel jealous about their neighbors riches.

This means that, as much as it is not in character to accuse big civs of not playing nicely, just BECAUSE they are big, it is not in character to blame a small civ for taking advantage of their bigger neighbors help and then still stabbing them in the back... International relations just are dependent on more than just "Your actions have proven your good intentions in the past"! There is also "Our close borders spark tensions" and "We are annoyed you have fallen for a heathen religion" (Rome hates Hastog and all it stands for, but I ooc love the fact I have something to kick against.) Civ does not do this for nothing with AI's. Even having a serious headache could theoretically lead to war in Civ as far as I am concerned.

Also, you small civs: if you feel you're disadvantaged compared to the big ones, the open options are: ally with your neighbors and attack a big one (this strategy does take some careful planning, high chance of issues along the line, I've noticed ), steal and deal and plot and scheme to increase your position inch by inch, put one big one against another, find good allies

If this game should only be fun for the person who wins, 14 other players are wasting a lot of time over the next one or two years.

Oh, and I bet Belgium does hate Germany :-)

This game is supposed to be a role playing game.
Can everyone please stick to the role playing approach and abandon the the jealousy approach?

1. the 'big civs should help small civs' is NOT a role playing approach. Role playing = there are big civs and there are small civs. And Belgium doesn't hate Germany either b/c Germany is big.

2. Since the beginning of the game I have tried all the time to help my small neighbors and ballance the game. I do not accept it if right now everybody acts like I am a selfish player anyway.

Yes, Persia plays this "big mean selfish" role in the game.
That's fine, fight it in-character if you want.
But the facts are that Persia has been very kind and nice to the small civs around it. I tried to hide that by writing big fat selfish brag stories, b/c that's my ROLE!
Now I'm being accused OOC for being a OOC selfish player, which is simply not true.

Don't mix OOC up with IG!!!!!!!
Or I have no other choice but drop my role and adopt a nice boring holy attitude civ while I just continue to do the same.

[India (DoC)]

Oh.. no.. an other civ complaining ooc in the story thread..no, wait: it's Korea again..
Persia, don't take it personally: I too got the "I'm destroying the diplo spirit" and "this game is over anyway"

Now seriously: There is no such a thing that everyone is equal in civ. Even Korea is much stronger than some others. If I'd gift away all my vouchers still didnt change too much. I can't work on that to make others as strong as myself: Technically I could give away lots of gold, cities , units to others but that would just hurt the game: took away the challenge, the rp whatever.. (I did help btw to other civs, but I looked for rp reasons to do so)
Being able to get classical techs for free was part of my "strategy" They don't really matter too much for me.. altogether don't worth a voucher..
My way to balace the game is.. er not yet.. get hints from the story thread.
But I can tell: I don't intend to leave the planet by some kind of spaceship..
Btw I'm not big.. I have 9 heavily overlapping cities, my population last time chekced was 12th. on the demographics screen. But yeah, I'm rich..
If we are talking about such things: I wonder what would have happend if I had been placed on the central continent.. or next to a civ like Persia (when He invaded with 5 axemen I had like 3 warriors and a chariot.. ) I'm a builder type player who has found builder neighbours and left alone... if you have problem with that do something

[Persia (DoC)]

Rome: like I said, I have no problem with Russia stabbing in my back. I never complained about that.

I have a problem with these occ accusations to me because they aren't fair and they aren't true.

In general actions like Russia's are not good for small civs. I'll think twice next time before I'll help a civ like Russia. He's allowed to do it, but I doubt that this kinda backstabbing helps small civs on the long term. But that's an in character thing.

But I'm pretty serious about that. When I found out that I'm one of the bigger civs I decided to try to help my neighbors a lot, partly to keep them friendly to me (ic), partly to help them and have a fun game (ooc).
Now it appears that this strategy is not working for both ic and ooc reasons I will think twice next time to implement it again.

Persia was willing to battle England (as many small civs repeatedly requested, the big ones should fight the big ones) but now I was stabbed in my back on my way to England I'll think twice next time before I attack a big civ again.

bottom line: what Russia did is fair and good and legal and everything.
but next time don't complain if big civs don't attack big civs and if big civs don't support small civs with goodies. We're not crazy.

But this complain is not towards Russia! Russia is playing an awesome role playing game! He never complains ooc! he just plays his game. I admire him for doing so.
For game reasons I hope he beats me! But hey, for Persia reasons I'll deport him b/c he did the worst backstabbing ever! But I think that deporting a civ to a new location is also good for game reasons 8) It's never been done before, has it?

[Orb (DoC)]

All I have to say is the statement I made was not only true but IC.


Also @Persia: if you could pull of deportation of Russia I would be truly amazed but first you have to win the war

[Orb (DoC)]

On to a more important matter. Can we lower the clock yet or at least post some more war stories to keep me distracted from the long and sad timer?