The Dance of Civilizations [Diplo Game] [Organization Thread Pt1]

[St Jon]

It's really not good to have this discussion in an OOC manner.
And St Jon, perhaps the player you think you know may be someone else.

I hope so.

[Robert]

It's really not good to have this discussion in an OOC manner.
And St Jon, perhaps the player you think you know may be someone else.

[Black Knight 427]

This map isn't so bad. At least it will get interesting alot faster then the last game.

[Orb (DoC)]

I'd wait to start showing your aggressive side in the story thread till a new discussion starts or you will give out who you are even more then you have already.

[Rasputin]

Diplo does not prevent all out war. if you need to attack to gain land then do so. Even i as the weaker palyer expect to be attacked by the other civs if they looking for land or resources i have.

So St jon do what you have to do. It is the right of all civs to try to grow to an empire and 6-8 citys is not an empire.

So change tactics do as you must, just post plenty of stories about it.

If you going to be an aggresive civ, make sure it clear in the story thread that is who you are play that character.

[Orb (DoC)]

I meant both that you are and that you aren't.

Ahhh he may or may not kill me

[LzPrst]

outright aggression is certainly allowed. May I reference Mongolia in HOTW12
but early aggression can be fatal, destroying the first settler or 2nd settled city is a huge setback. border treaties are one way of working around a cramped position, provided the involved parties are not powerhungry megalomaniacs... oh wait

[St Jon]

I meant both that you are and that you aren't.

[St Jon]

Man I really Hope St. Jon isn't near me. I'm too young to die already.

Oh, but you are my dear!

[Orb (DoC)]

Man I really Hope St. Jon isn't near me. I'm too young to die already.

[St Jon]

He didn't. Everyone has room for 6-8 cities. Yes, St. Jon, even you. Now if you guys are really that bad at civ that you build all your cities far apart from each other, well then I guess that's your problem. But it isn't a problem of the map.

Whiners.

Good or Bad is not your judgement to make. Success or Failure is a different issue and decided by the test of time. My tactics, as interpreted by you, are not open to criticism unless they fail. Just because I am a newbie to MP Civ IV does not mean that I have not played many MP games of a similar genre. Having a preference for core Cities that will be big does not imply tactical or strategic weakness just my preferred method of play.

In SP Civ IV, when I used to play it, I followed the same route whenever possible. On a tiny map that option is not open to you but then war is your only aim - go for Slavery and kill anyone you can see - but not in a game such as this. I know full well who my closest neighbour is and he will be tough to beat if I allow him to choke me. This is not 'whining' it is a matter of fact and therefore I have no option but to do all I can to prevent it happening. If it is a case of 'Choke or be Choked' then I have no option but to go for the former.

[Black Knight 427]

I'm not sure but if there is really 3 islands that everyone started on then I'm assuming that st. john is on the one with 6 civs which is why he maybe be complaining. I think that maybe that island should have been made bigger then the rest because of the extra civ or at least put some islands around them to help them out. In anycase I think a change of stratigy should be considered. Drop what you wanted to do and just expand before your neighbors get their first. Just my thoughts.

[OzzyKP]

you obviously got one of the larger areas...

He didn't. Everyone has room for 6-8 cities. Yes, St. Jon, even you. Now if you guys are really that bad at civ that you build all your cities far apart from each other, well then I guess that's your problem. But it isn't a problem of the map.

Whiners.

[WarningU2]

A comment regarding diplogames. Honestly if one player is in such a position I do not think that their options should be hamstrung by being a "diplo" game. If negotiations to acquire more land fail or are not feasible, then they should take the only alternative ... outright aggression. It is unrealistic to think this would not happen in real life. Is the rule such that war is prohibited in this situation? In history when civilizations have their back against the wall, war results - that is life and humanity has excelled at it. Unfortunately, we will likely see this play out too soon when adequate fresh water and food becomes unavailable to large segments of the world but I digress.

I was only a very late game sub in BtP but I am in a position, even worse than Russia's was there, where I can actually see my nearest neighbour's capital as well as knowing where another's is. The 3rd I only know the rough geography about but I know that they are far too close for comfort. I am stuck on the end of a peninsula which means that I have no choice but early war which is very wasteful.

In a 'free for all' I would simply slave axemen and wipe out my close neighbour but I cannot do that in Diplo. My only other alternative is to ring his capital and kill each Settler as it emerges to prevent him expanding. My build queue will therefore run X - Axeman - X - Axeman Ad Inf! He will probably understand the risks and try the same tactic against me - especially if he is cramped from the other side as well.

I know the identity of one of my neighbours for certain, sorry but the style of writing is too familiar, and have a pretty good idea of another. One will defeat me if I give him the chance to grow and the other will be a 50-50 but the 3rd I have no idea of. It is fine to say 'build a fleet to discover the promised land' but when you have no chance to build more than 3 cities without massive overlap things become a little more tricky.

Civ obliteration may be illegal but Civ emasculation is not and on a map like this I have no alternative but to pursue that tactic. I am just glad I picked the Civ I did as at least I stand a chance of pulling it off.

[mzprox]

Don't worry mzprox; I have never quitted a game,...

I was not talking about you, but the one you may attack early