Beyond the Pit [Pitboss Diplomacy Game] [Organization Thread VI]

[St Jon]

Pointless Post - Please Delete.

Maybe not so pointless.


Did anyone object when Russia was attacked by Japan with Tank, Infantry, Destroyer and Machine Gun when lacking the Tech for any of them? Did anyone object when Russia had upgrades to Infantry, Transport and Machine Gun likewise? Does anyone care that Maya are now equipped with Modern Armour and Mech Inf when a huge gap exists in Tech levels? The same can be said of Spain plus there we also had a real Player behaving more like a Vassel than any In-Game one would do for a long time. There have also been other long-term Sub's In-Game which either nobody has noticed or have cared about.

This all seems to stem from OOG ill will and bad blood between the established Players just as the previous issues I have witnessed in BtP. How on Earth did such a bunch of people carrying grudges ever agree to play a game together?

This certainly proves Cyber to be right about the ANON Logins and never Posting under your real name. If nobody had ever known who was playing who then most of the problems have been less prolonged and the arguments less bitter.

[OzzyKP]

Oh gimmie a break Toni.

Khmer and Metalheads are allies. There isn't anything unusual about upgrading allies' units. It seems like you are just using this as an excuse so we can rush in a newbie to sub for Khmer so you can take advantage of them.

[Robert]

Ozzy, it's a bit unfair for 1 civ to wage war against 2 other civs that are played by the same player.
Perhaps Khmer and Metals are allies, but now Portugal has no chance to set Khmer and Metals up against each other. Sign a peace with one and focus on the other.
You on the other hand are able to perfectly coordinate the war.

It's just not fair.
That doesn't mean that you're a cheat or something, but it's just better to have a sub for the khmer to avoid all debates and discussions.
Not to mention that there have been 3 weeks.

I'm looking for a sub myself now, I've asked Glohitia to sub.
I'll send out some more pm's. I'm sure that we can find someone.

[OzzyKP]

Portugal is only at war with the Khmer. The Metalheads are not involved. Nor have I given him any assistance in the war.

Not to say I wouldn't want a sub, I do. I don't want to spend my time managing multiple civs. But accusations of improper behavior or play I think are bull****.

[St Jon]

Any Sub must be of Deity standard and aware of Deity's policy - and prepared to adopt it..

That does exclude a lot of people from the list. Apart from Heraclitus, who enjoys killing Portuguese from what I've read of the early Story Thread, how many others fit the bill outside of BtP?

I also repeat my previous question as to how are you so sure that all of this will be over in 3 weeks?

[Pitboss Portugal]

There isn't anything unusual about upgrading allies' units. It seems like you are just using this as an excuse so we can rush in a newbie to sub for Khmer so you can take advantage of them.

Haha right! So you find nothing wrong in seeing a player who just turns ago had a 2nd grade army and totally obsolete compared to the other three major powers upgraded just like that? Plus that same player also controls one of those major powers, too awkward i say. No you give me a break! I do not have so much of a problem you playing for deity. But i disapprove of the way how you have used the situation to make your civ stronger. Do not use the allies excuse please, which just shows how more biased the situation is.

Disappointed that you use such game mechanics to make your civ better. The way i see it the Metals can go all gold as they are currently till the end of time and continue just sending their obsolete armies into khmer for upgrades who they also control.

Again it would had been different if Khmer had its own mind and player, last but not least why didn't Deity upgraded your units while he was playing? You were allies no?

[OzzyKP]

We did similar stuff while he was in control. He'd have zero issue with it. You are jumping at shadows.

[Pitboss Rome]

As far as I can see:

1. There isn't a problem in itself in the gift/upgrade/return tactic. It has certainly been used elsewhere. The limitation on it, of course, is that you don't know if those troops will be used against you later.

2. There is a problem with the sub situation. I know previously when I was Rome at war with the Piercians and the Russians, I felt very unhappy at the suggestion of Piercia subbing for Russia. I respect the point that Metals are not technically at war with the Khmer, but there is clearly a very close relationship (as the gift/upgrade shows) between the Metals and Khmer (as as we have all known for a long time, there are formal treaties, I saw modern armour gifted by the Khmer during my brief war on Meduia etc.). And therefore I think that it is fair for Portugal to feel that this sub arrangements means he is fighting two civs as one. Indeed if I were controlling two civs and wanted a war I would deliberately leave one at peace and have only one at war - it gives lots of possibilities. This doesn't mean that the sub arrangements has been deliberately done for any ill-will at all, and I can understand that Khmer wanted to appoint as sub someone who was very close to him (the Metals), but I think that it is fair for Portugal to be unhappy about it. Particularly when it goes on for a long time.

3. I think that there is something in Russia's comment that there are all sorts of personal things flying around in here; though that isn't new in this game. I hope that in rules/values for the next game we have it explicit that a player should play in (what they see as) the best interests of their nation in this game.

Hope we can get this started again soon though. It feels as if this game is nearing its ends, and we do need to finish it!

[Pitboss Celts]

I certainly hope we can finish this up in 3 weeks (or less would be excellent). Kind of tired of being low man on the totem pole

[Robert]

So far: Glohitia has declined and Heraclitus has declined to sub for Khmer.
I have posted a thread in the pitboss forum. I hope that soon someone will volunteer to sub for the Khmer.

[Robert]

I haven't been able so far to find a sub.
Does anybody have an alternate solution or suggestion?

[St Jon]

One of the guys I'm playing in a free for all might be into it but apart from Pinchak I don't know the standard.

Pinchak might be a good choice if he is prepared to do it as he is a good player and knows the BtP World.

Can't you persuade Ming or Rah to take on 3 weeks of PitBoss? Both are really good players even if they don't normally play this format.

[Robert]

I'll ask Ming and rah.

[St Jon]

If you tell them that all they have is 3 weeks of total war with Portugal then that might intice one of them as both are VERY VERY good at war as I have found out on several occasions.

[OzzyKP]

pssh, I can usually kick their asses. :P