Beyond the Pit [Pitboss Diplomacy Game] [Organization Thread V]

[MMC]

If you can't get this sorted soon, I'm sure you can find a way to get the save to me.

And what's the betting that the ISP's stupid AV decided that a game server was a trojan (because of all the incoming connections)?

[Pitboss Spain]

That is one serious problem, i hope you get it fixed.

[Robert]

I've just contacted my ISP by provider.
They have received my mails and will handle it when I'm next in the row......
And no, I'm not at the front of that row
I hope it'll be done in a few hours.

If not, then I'll upload the save and hand it over to MMC.

[Pitboss Japan]

this is making me a sad panda

[Robert]

GOOD NEWS
got a message from my ISP, everything has een checked, in 60 minutes my connection should be up and running again!

Now what to do: I think it's better if we wait continueing the game till we have resolved the problems (see debate thread).
Let's take at most 24 hours for that.

If everybody is willing to work towards a solution that must be possible.
Then I launch the game when Maya says he's ready. There are only 3 hours on the clock and it would be unfair to just launch the game on a moment when he can play his turn.

He would've been able to play his turn were it not that I made the stupid kick mistake and then my ISP broke me down.

Just to make things complete: I also have a infection on my foot and can barely walk!
THREE evils at once! Huge diplo-fight, connection troubles AND foot problems!!
One would assume that they had everything to do with each other, and as paranoia as I used to be in my former life (yesterday) I would have blamed it all on one person
But fortunately I know now that many evils at the same time can very well be a coincident

Just sharing this with you guys because it proves that paranoia and coincidences do not match!

[The Capo]

I was just going to report that I couldn't log-in, but I guess its because you haven't got it up.

I'd be down for a 24 hour wait-time because that gives me time to plan out when I can move. BTW the fact that I continue playing has NO BEARING on my position that this game has to be reloaded. I just want to make that clear.

[Robert]

I'm not going to continue this game.
Here's the save file.
For explanation: see debate thread.

I have done my very best to come with compromises and solutions, but when all I try is slammed down and the only mantra some can sing is: "reload reload reload", then there's no reason for me to continue.

I don't want to play with people who can only think black or white and do not want to do justice to the complexity of situations.

Thank all for the fun! I have had fun.
I wish I would have been asble to finish this, it's been te most interesting game I've been in. But I never saw the man with the hammer coming, who came from behind and suddenly pulled me into this great mess.

CS

[St Jon]

Goodbye

Sorry Kiddies,

I quit this game - if you want explanation I have posted it in full on 'Agrument' Thread.

Have fun,
FF

[The Capo]

In the interest of continuing the game we need the following:

1) A save game from 1635 a.d. in which either Greece has already moved or nobody has moved and Korea has the ability to move.

2) Replacement players for Greece and Russia.

3) Every other player needs to confirm their availability/willingness to continue.

4) A new host.

For the record KOREA WILL CONTINUE.

Any other takers?

And please, Cybershy (or anyone else who can) provide a save from 1635 ad.

Thank you.

[Pitboss Khmer]

Tragedy

It agonises me to see Cyber quitting.

I feel I supported him as a decent human being quite strongly but I also criticised him when I felt it appropriate and on balance I think a 1635AD reload should have occurred.

Cyber should not have been called a cheat and in the first place and this is what muddied the waters thereafter. OOC confused IC and I felt really sorry for Cyber but he is so stubborn he can not see the obviousness of what should have occurred. A reload at 1635AD.

We can't go on forever about nuance and subtlety. No sporting events or games would ever get finished if we all did that and brought in lawyers to argue every little detail.

Cyber, on balance I think you got it wrong and got lost in the detail. I can not give blind support based on friendship when all I posted is my honest thoughts. I did stick up for you regarding the cheating but this muddied the waters when I said we should cut Cyber some slack.

I still think that my advise, if followed would have been in the best interests of the game. What I said was:

* reload to 1635AD
* Korea and Maya take one city each from Sparta
* and negotiate hardball on the AET etc etc

It is contrived but would have prevented the game going down and maintaining a degree of spirit and stong IC actions.

As it happened you all argued OOC for several turns since then and Cyber, if you can't accept a majority view it is very bad form to quit and bail out of hosting the game. I can understand your anger. You were personally maligned and I'm very annoyed at Maya's choice of language and prejudice accusations but I must separate that out from the good of the game.

So should you.

We will all think much more of you as a person if you come back and reload at 1635AD and let's hope for some Korean/Mayan restraint - ie more diplo and less of the war.

[Pitboss Khmer]

FYI: I have a 1635AD save but not sure if it's before the Korean turn. But also have 1630AD. I hope we don't need them. Of course I am not going to be deprived of playing the rest of this game.

[The Capo]

I don't want Cyber to leave. Despite my position I have played NUMEROUS games with him, even before he "knew" who I was and when I totally thought the world of him as a "noob" multiplayer. Never have I had a problem with him, and I am the type that, despite my harsh rhetoric, is able to see the forest for the trees and ignore arguments and continue playing without personal animice towards anyone. I think I spelled animice wrong. Anamis? Anamice? I don't know.

My point is, I DO want to continue the game. Otherwise I would not have put up with so much crap for so long. I am NEVER among the top civs, and I know this. I just like playing diplogames with guys I truly like playing with. Even if most of you are lying, conniving, douchebags.

But honestly, who better to play a diplogame with?

I think the biggest problem I have here is that the truly great genre of Diplogaming has been ruined for a lot of new players, particularly Friendly Fire. I am sorry FF that you met me under these circumstances, a lot of these guys know I am a very stubborn and vocalized individual. But honestly I do not take things as personally as it may seem. My skin is thick and so are my words and for that I am sorry. But I normally never apologize for what I say, or the intention behind it, so no apologies will be given by me. (This is honestly as close as I ever get to an apology, unless of course I know I am wrong and in this case I don't feel that way, you said I couldn't find my anus with an atlas and to me that is too disrespectful to forgive considering you don't know me that well).

******* I may be, but a trooper I certainly am. And if anyone is down with continuing this thing I will personally organize the effort. Cyber is more than welcome to return, but either way we need the save from 1635 ad. I offer the following solutions, some of them are repeats;

1) A save game from 1635 a.d. in which either Greece has already moved or nobody has moved and Korea has the ability to move.

2) Replacement players for Greece and Russia.

3) Every other player needs to confirm their availability/willingness to continue.

4) A new host.

5) We take a four day hiatus to sort this out. That gives people time for tempers to cool off, for them to take a break and get over this nonsense and, hopefully this won't happen but it should be on the table, for others to quit if they feel it necessary.

6) It also gives us time to find replacements

7) Rules need to be set in stone. I for one do not like the concept of pre-declaration double moves (that is considering the turn BEFORE a declaration of war as part of a double move). In my mind this removes strategy, once war is declared the turns go into effect. So realistically no actual advantage is gained other than the surprise attack, which SHOULD be a facet of strategy.

8) Any host we do get can NOT decide on rules. NOT AT ALL. They have no more decision-making authority than ANYONE ELSE. This is the fairest way to handle this and to avoid future mishaps.

9) Since we will now have rules set in stone, there is no need to contact non-involved judges other than in cases where the rules are clearly unclear. This should only occur in rare occasions since we will make sure to lineate, clearly, what the rules are.

10) Consensus or voting can not be an option unless the situation calls for it. And those situations should only be when a player can't play (for whatever reason and wants a cessation of play, IC considerations do not count for this, only OOC situations such as personal illness, family problems or other similar issues). This should not be a problem since rules will be written out without vagueness or "spirit" involved. Everyone's concepts differ, so there is no reason to consider this when making rules.

11) That said, rules will not be TOO COMPLICATED or CONVOLUTED. There will be no funny business or vague concepts.

12) I ask that nothing is deleted from any thread so long as it does not violate the rules of vulgarity, obscenity, or the anonymity of any players that continue to be anonymous. Barring specific situations where there is a GOOD REASON for the posts to be deleted. This is mainly in place to avoid personal gripes between players who feel slighted by decisions to censor their posts. Every player should have the right the air their grievances, especially in such a long and involved game such as this one. If posts are deleted there should always be an option to challenge the decision, and if decided by a consensus they should be restored. Of course the moderators still have a job and if they feel that the post should remain deleted I ask that the "violated" poster contact Ming or DanQ if necessary.

13) Unlucky thirteen.

14) Hopefully these requests will help us. If not I will organize another game.

[Robert]

@Khmer, I answer you because I like you.
Consider this as last: perhaps I am the only one who really knew what was going on down there between Korea/Maya and Sparta.

I can't blame any of you for not seeing what was happening, especially not outsiders like Ming and -Jrabbit.

I am dissapointed though that there was not even enough trust in me, and that apparently it was that easy for you to fall for all the twists so that you all even started to believe that capo/pinchak got a point.

That same pinchak who when he double moved refused to cooperate at all! Who explained all rules exactly opposite when he double moved. Who did not listen to the call of the judes and kept the korean worker for many many turns.

You can call me stubborn, but apparently I am the only one who really knows what's been going on down there. And yes, it can easily happen to you next time. And nobody will believe you and the two biggest trouble makers of the community will throw that much dirt on you that even if people only believe 10% of it, it's still too much to handle.

You are wrong about the entire situation.
If there would have been only someone who wanted to dig into this dirt, read the explanations I made, read through the entir setup/org threads, investigate the situation, etc. the he would see it.

That's what I always did when troubles happened to others.
But apparently when it happens to me there's nobody who wants to investigate.

That's what I am dissapointed in you about, you stayed on a distance and were not willing to investigate, you'd rather believe a simple truth, one that's against all forms of fairness and justice.

Yes, I am the only one who thinks so.
And yes, besides Capo and Pinchak, I'm the only one who really knows what happened.

CS

[Robert]

Here's the 1635 autosave.
I'll send the vote mailbox password and the Pitboss Greece password to MMC

[Pitboss Khmer]

Cyber, we can not operate that way. I'm very busy and I've only skimmed all the posts giving them ALL equal attention.

I can not spend more time on it than making a judgement based on that impression.

What is there to lose by re-hosting and playing on from 1635?

You are high in the score that counts, even if you fall in the game score.

I can not see your point at all in criticising Capo. He is not the way you describe.

And I thought Pinchak was the HRE!!Well, Maya's tongue OOC bothers me but let him shoot hinself in the foot then.

Grab the high moral ground and rehost.

You've sufferred more than anyone I know at the hands of IC diplo trickery; but so have others.

Maybe it will happen to me; maybe it already has.