Beyond the Pit [Pitboss Diplomacy Game] [Organization Thread V]

[Robert]

March 2009 score:

Position			Story	Diplo	Mili	Score	Total	Voted		Dif
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
01. (01)(01)(01) Rome		14(--)	18(--)	18(--)	16(--)	66(--)	xxxxxxxxxx	--
01. (02)(02)(02) Greece		18(--)	17(+1)	16(--)	15(+1)	66(+2)	xxxxxxxxxx	+1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
03. (03)(03)(04) Maya		12(--)	12(--)	17(--)	14(-1)	55(-1)	xxxxxxxxxx	--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
04. (04)(08)(06) Korea		17(-1)	15(-2)	13(-1)	03(--)	48(-2)	xxxxxxxx--	--
04. (05)(03)(08) Khmer		08(-1)	14(--)	09(-1)	17(-1)	48(-3)	xxxxxxxxxx	+1
06. (07)(06)(06) Portug		06(--)	16(--)	07(--)	18(+1)	47(+1)	--xxxxxxxx	+1
07. (06)(06)(09) HRE		10(-1)	11(--)	14(-1)	10(-1)	45(-3)	-xxxxxxx--	-1
07. (08)(10)(10) Japan		15(--)	09(+1)	12(+1)	09(-2)	45(--)	xxxxxxxx-x	+1
07. (12)(12)(15) Russia		11(+3)	08(+1)	15(+6)	11(+2)	45(+12)	x---x--xxx	+5
10. (08)(05)(03) Persia		16(--)	13(--)	12(-1)	03(--)	44(-1)	xxxxxxxx--	-2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11. (10)(08)(05) Vikings	13(--)	08(-1)	12(-1)	07(-1)	40(-3)	xxxxx-----	-1
12. (11)(11)(11) Metal		09(-1)	06(+1)	08(--)	13(--)	36(--)	xxxx--xxxx	-1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
13. (13)(12)(12) Spain		07(--)	06(--)	03(--)	12(--)	28(--)	xxxxx---x-	--
14. (14)(14)(13) Natives	03(--)	10(--)	04(--)	08(--)	25(--)	xx-x------	--
15. (15)(15)(14) Celts		04(--)	04(--)	06(--)	06(--)	20(--)	xxxxxxxxxx	--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
16. (16)(17)(15) England	05(--)	03(--)	03(--)	04(-1)	15(-1)	xxxx------	--
17. (17)(16)(18) America	02(--)	02(--)	05(--)	05(--)	14(--)	-xx--xxx--	--
18. (18)(18)(17) Inca		02(--)	01(--)	03(--)	03(--)	09(--)	----------	--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Story	June	July	August	Sept	okt	nov	dec	jan	feb	Mar
Greece 	21	16 (37)	12 (49)	15 (64)	10(74)	12(86)	22(108) 21(129)	10(139)	12(151)	18
Korea	7	21 (28)	25 (53)	14 (67)	22(89)	9(98)	11(109) 15(124)	15(139)	0(139)	17 (-1)
Persia	10	15 (25)	10 (35)	6 (41)	9(50)	6(56)	2 (58)	13(71)	4(75)	0(75)	16
Japan	16	7 (23)	11 (34)	6 (40)	18(58)	8(66)	0 (66)	2(68)	0(68)	0(68)	15
Rome	2	0 (2)	9 (11)	4 (15)	5(20)	3(23)	9 (32)	4(36)	9(45)	8(53)	14
Vikings	11	5 (16)	14 (30)	8 (38)	5(43)	0(43)	0 (43)	0(43)	0(43)	0(43)	13
Maya	1	1 (2)	2 (4)	8 (12)	3(15)	8(20)	3 (23)	7(30)	2(32)	8(40)	12
Russia	5	0 (5)	0 (5)	0 (5)	0(5)	2*(5)	0 (5)	5(10)	8(18)	16(34)	11 (+3)
HRE	3*	1 (1)	0 (1)	2 (3)	0(3)	5(8)	13 (21)	4(25)	0(25)	0(25)	10 (-1)
Metal	8	2 (10)	4 (14)	1 (15)	0(15)	0(17)	6 (23)	0(23)	0(23)	0(23)	9 (-1)
Khmer	1	0 (1)	5 (6)	11 (17)	0(17)	0(17)	3 (20)	0(20)	0(20)	1(21)	8 (-1)
Spain	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	2 (2)	10(12)	3*(12)	0 (12)	0(12)	0(12)	0(12)	7
Port	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	2 (2)	0(2)	7(9)	0 (9)	1(10)	0(10)	0(10)	6
Engla	0	0 (0)	4 (4)	0 (4)	0(4)	0(4)	0 (4)	0(4)	0(4)	0(4)	5
Celts	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0 (0)	0(0)	3(3)	0(3)	4
Natives	0	1 (1)	0 (1)	0 (1)	0(1)	0(1)	0 (1)	0(1)	0(1)	0(1)	3
America	1*	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	2
Inca	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	2


Diplomacy
Rome	8	16 (24)	16 (40)	7 (47)	12(59)	11(70)	5 (75)	3(78)	10(88)	18(106)	18
Greece	7	1 (8)	4 (12)	0 (12)	16(28)	5(33)	8 (41)	11(52)	9(61)	7(68)	17 (+1)
Portu	3*	3*(0)	13 (13)	12 (25)	5(30)	12(42)	5 (47)	10(57)	4(61)	4(65)	16
Korea	14	17 (31)	4 (35)	7 (42)	3(45)	3(48)	2 (50)	4(54)	9(63)	0(63)	15 (-2)
Khmer	5	2 (7)	3 (10)	5 (15)	11(26)	4(30)	10(40)	16(56)	2(58)	3(61)	14
Persia	2	11 (13)	6 (19)	12 (31)	8 (39)	10(49)	0 (49)	1(50)	0(50)	0(50)	13
Maya	6	2 (8)	3 (11)	0 (11)	0(11)	4(15)	3 (18)	8(26)	5(31)	4(35)	12
HRE	0	0 (0)	2 (2)	2 (4)	3(7)	8(11)	9 (20)	9(29)	2*(29)	0(29)	11
Natives	3	6 (9)	10 (19)	6 (25)	4*(25)	1(26)	1*(26)	0(26)	0(26)	0(26)	10
Japan	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	8 (8)	6(14)	0(14)	1 (15)	2(17)	0(17)	7(24)	9 (+1)
Vikings	5	3 (8)	8 (16)	3 (19)	3(22)	0(22)	0 (22)	0(22)	0(22)	0(22)	8 (-1)
Russia	1	5*(1)	2* (1)	0 (1)	2(3)	0(3)	0 (3)	6(9)	7(16)	6(22)	8 (+1)
Spain	0	3 (3)	1 (4)	3 (7)	5(12)	3*(12)	0 (12)	0(12)	1(13)	0(13)	6
Metal	7	0 (7)	0 (7)	0 (7)	0(7)	0(7)	1 (8)	0(8)	4(12)	1(13)	6 (+1)
Celts	0	5 (5)	0 (5)	0 (5)	0(5)	0(5)	5 (10)	1(11)	0(11)	0(11)	4
england 1	1 (2)	5 (7)	2 (9)	2*(9)	2*(9)	12*(9)	1*(9)	0(9)	0(9)	3
America	3*	0 (0)	0 (0)	4*(0)	0(0)	2(2)	4 (6)	2(8)	0(8)	0(8)	2
Inca	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	1


Military
Rome	5	4 (9)	25 (34)	18 (52)	7(59)	18(77)	23(100)	18(118)	4(122)	4(126)	18
Maya	21	7 (28)	5 (33)	1 (34)	0(34)	13(47)	8 (55)	0(55)	8(63)	3(66)	17
Greece	0	4 (4)	3 (7)	6 (13)	2(15)	7(22)	12 (34)	1(35)	4(39)	18(57)	16
Russia	0	4*(0)	6* (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	7*(0)	0 (0)	12(12)	4(16)	16(32)	15 (+6)
HRE	5*	0 (0)	0 (0)	1 (1)	0(1)	4(5)	14 (18)	13(31)	0(31)	0(31)	14 (-1)
Korea	9	0 (9)	3 (12)	0 (12)	2(14)	0(14)	0 (14)	0(14)	14(28)	0(28)	13 (-1)
Vikings	0	14 (14)	7 (21)	0 (21)	5(26)	2*(26)	0 (26)	0(26)	0(26)	0(26)	12 (-1)
Persia	3	3 (6)	9 (15)	4 (19)	0(19)	2(21)	3 (24)	0(24)	2(26)	0((26)	12 (-1)
Japan	0	9 (9)	3 (12)	5 (17)	8(25)	0(25)	0 (25)	0(25)	0(25)	1(26)	12 (+1)
Khmer	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	3 (3)	18(21)	0(21)	0(21)	9 (-1)
Metal	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	8 (8)	0(8)	0(8)	4 (12)	1(13)	0(13)	1(14)	8
Portug	2*	3*(0)	4 (4)	1 (5)	5(10)	0(10)	0 (10)	0(10)	2(12)	1(13)	7
Celts	0	0 (0)	3 (3)	0 (3)	0(3)	1(4)	2 (6)	0(6)	0(6)	0(6)	6
America	0	0 (0)	5 (5)	6*(5)	5*(5)	0(5)	0 (5)	0(5)	0(5)	0(5)	5
Natives 0	0 (0)	0 (0)	1 (1)	0(1)	0(1)	0 (1)	0(1)	0(1)	0(1)	4
Spain 	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0 (0)	4*(0)	0(0)	0(0)	3
England	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	3
Inca	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	3

Congrats to Russia for once again making one huge leap forward!
Also congrats to Russia for being the first apart from Korea/Sparta to win the Story category last month!
Russia/Sparta are now in a joined-lead
Then the Maya follow
Then there's one huge exciting group where everybody is still open.

Well...... Russia showed how it is possible to make some huge steps forward!
Last months....! All go for it!

[Pitboss Khmer]

It is in fact the Khmer who are trying to change the game. .

Khmer simply asked the question...

Imagine if I built up to a nuclear first strike and we had none of this awareness discussion... can you imagine?

LOL

[Pitboss Portugal]

Take care as you must have been looking at a save where the turn had moved on.

To the Khmerian player what are you implying here? Are you saying that I have been opening the old saves of the game???? I am seriously pissed right now that you actually may think such a thing.

I never expected this from you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

P.S DO not forget that I can see everything in your country, buildings being build, units, specialist being used, science level etc everything!!!!!!!!!!!

[deity]

edit

[Pitboss Khmer]

To the Khmerian player what are you implying here? Are you saying that I have been opening the old saves of the game???? I am seriously pissed right now that you actually may think such a thing.

I never expected this from you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

P.S DO not forget that I can see everything in your country, buildings being build, units, specialist being used, science level etc everything!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey, take it easy.

I was NOT building the dam when you posted I was. All your other intell is correct.

If you are on hols I tend to think it's fine to open up a save that is sent to you but I'm not implying anything at all; nor that you actually did this.

If you did open up a save it will advance to the end of the current turn. If this happenned the Khmer cap would have nothing in its build queue and with Plastics just learnt the AI might have selected the dam (but I could not have).

You are so not cool.

And I entirely trust you btw.

[Pitboss Khmer]

To Khmer:
Khmer is building wonders which only benefit himself like the freshly build Pentagon and the newly started Three Gorge Dam project.

I was responding to this.

[The Capo]

I'm not in the game, but don't see the problem with the civic resolution. I personally would not vote for a civic resolution, I don't really see why most people would either. But its part of the game. Even if its stupid, its something you know is a possibility, and this is another case where you would have to use diplomacy again in the form of posts and PMs to argue why its a bad resolution to suggest.

It would also help with the contention that the late game is void of stories and posts. You know what resolutions are possible, you don't need to know which one is coming up. Make blanket statements about all possible resolutions and champion certain ones while challenging others. This adds more depth to the game and will certainly bolster the late-game diplomacy.

[Robert]

this is another case where you would have to use diplomacy again in the form of posts and PMs to argue why its a bad resolution to suggest.

Big civs can, but small civs can't.
Right now Portugal, Rome and Sparta combined will most probably be able to ensure that emancipation won't be forced upon everybody.
But if the 3 of us would be emancipation civs then small nations would have no chance to continue their specialist strategy against the three of us.

My wish would be to incorporate this into the diplo-mod. (just remove these resolutions)

Another suggestion from me would be: make everybody votable as secretary general of the UN and give the person who built he UN a double vote.
That adds a lot more interesting diplo-stuff, especially if there would be a 2 round style. (first round: everybody votable, 2nd rount only the top 2 of the first round)

3rd suggestion: make an Apostolic Palace available for all religions, and remove the 'declare war upon 1 civ' and 'close border upon 1 civ' options and replace them with the 'declare war on religion x' and 'close borders with religion x' resolutions.
Realy holy wars!!

[Pitboss Rome]

In case it matters (who knows what the next turns will bring) I finished turn and logged out the moment the Mayan logged in to avoid any suggestion of simultaneous moving.

[Heraclitus]

If it wasn't in the rules to prohibit the UN then, for right or wrong, it must stay. Same goes for Nukes - it may be against diplo-game etiquette to utterly knock a Civ out of the game but crippling a Civ by a massive 1st strike is not at all the same. It is no different to finding a massive industrial base of a rival badly defended and then capturing and razing it! It may be very nasty but it is still not illegal.

I still come back to the fact that the only thing in BtP that would stop me building and using Nukes, as I pleased, would be a UN decree. Anything else I would totally ignore!

I need to point out that a first strike is not a slam dunk strategy to victory.


All your opponent needs are a few tactical nukes on submarines and your first strike becomes mutually assured destruction. And like in the real world such detterent could be also provided by allies (like the US did for non-nuclear NATO allies during the cold war). And on top of that any nation that would out of the blue kill millions of civilians would be frowned upon in the real world, in diplo they would get so much diplomatic fallout it would mark them for the rest of the game... everyone would mistrust and dislike them.

[Pitboss Celts]

Rome, I've received no response to a PM I sent a few weeks ago. Please read and determine if you still want to proceed with that strategy.

[The Capo]

I need to point out that a first strike is not a slam dunk strategy to victory.


All your opponent needs are a few tactical nukes on submarines and your first strike becomes mutually assured destruction. And like in the real world such detterent could be also provided by allies (like the US did for non-nuclear NATO allies during the cold war). And on top of that any nation that would out of the blue kill millions of civilians would be frowned upon in the real world, in diplo they would get so much diplomatic fallout it would mark them for the rest of the game... everyone would mistrust and dislike them.

I'm with Heraclitus on this, I am all for rules and guideilnes (especially in a pitboss format) for issues like double moves and tech trades but when it comes to things like nukes and in-game deals I don't think there should be any artificial rules beyond diplomatic fallout.

[St Jon]

Heraclitus, you aren't really Slovenian are you? You have a picture of Hugh Laurie as your Avatar!

OT I know but a Hungarian who speaks perfect English and a Slovenian who can put most of Poly to shame on the same Thread! Surely some mistake here?

I know most members are Americans and therefore can be forgiven for failures in grammar, spelling and limitations in vocabulary but you go too far.

Let us know the truth!

[The Capo]

I know most members are Americans and therefore can be forgiven for failures in grammar, spelling and limitations in vocabulary but you go too far.

(angry mob)

[Heraclitus]

Heraclitus, you aren't really Slovenian are you? You have a picture of Hugh Laurie as your Avatar!

OT I know but a Hungarian who speaks perfect English and a Slovenian who can put most of Poly to shame on the same Thread! Surely some mistake here?

I know most members are Americans and therefore can be forgiven for failures in grammar, spelling and limitations in vocabulary but you go too far.

Let us know the truth!

Nope, I really am Slovenian. I just happen to be a fan of House MD (I just love his use of the socratic method ). Also you must be sarcastic I feel my spelling is quite horrible sometimes.