Beyond the Pit [Pitboss Diplomacy Game] [Organization Thread IV]

[The Capo]

The units moving back into your territory doesn't necessarily mean someone hijacked your civ... the peace treaty would have automatically moved them outside of Greece's borders.

Also, unless "New Random Seed on Reload" was ticked when this game was setup, replaying the battles after a reload should produce the exact same results, ensuring no unfair advantages.

There were no battles, I just moved my units into his territory which was the action that declared war. This just effectively moves them off of the tile and loses me a turn. But that isn't the point, the point is something is amiss and I am not going to stand for it.

EDIT: And actually yes it does mean someone hijacked my civ and made peace with Greece because they wouldn't have moved out of his territory if that hadn't happened. They'd still be there and we'd still be at war.

[St Jon]

Is the server down again? I cannot login come hell or highwater!

[MMC]

Server's fine, John. I'm logged in right now from my crappy BT connection.

[Pitboss Maya]

Wow, if this is what it looks like I am shocked.

As far as i can tell one of three things happened...

1. The game had some sort of error (unlikely it would manifest itself this way, and only in this way)

2. Greece in an underhanded effort to buy themselves an extra turn to prepare for war (or change moves assuming their would be a call for a reload), shut down civstats temporarily (so the hijack of korea would not be recorded), made them offer peace, then logged in as greece and accepted the peace. Of course only the host of the game would have the ability to mess with civstats. Those with knowledge of the hosts ingame identity know what i am getting at here.

3. Korea accidentally offered peace. (unlikely due to the complexity of events and the timing. Due to posts about the war from both Korea and greece, this "peace offer" would have had to occur late in the turn. Civ stats indicates korea logged back in a mere 15 min before the turn ended. This means that if he "accidentally" offered peace, Greece would have then had to have logged in during the remaining 15 min and accept. This is statistically improbable, and not verified by the civstats log.)


I think Occam's Razor can be applied here. If anyone else has any logical explanations... I'd love to hear them.

I also agree the turn should be reloaded, and Korea allowed to play before Greece as in the original turn. As a point of fairness to all, moves should be made by all players the same way they were originally.

As a side note, Cybershy, I would like instructions on how to change my civ password without your knowledge. Thank you.

[The Capo]

As a side note, Cybershy, I would like instructions on how to change my civ password without your knowledge. Thank you.

I second this.

[OzzyKP]

I support a reload as well. And an explanation.

[St Jon]

Whatever is happening there is something seriously amiss with the ip address as I am being directed to 'evogamer' and others?

I do fail to see how, without outright malpractise, that someone could have effectively played the Korean move. I cannot believe that passwords kept secret without a CMN can possibly work and would stand against it. Any of you could take a line too many tonight and we would be stuck with a dormant Civ unable to even be taken over by the AI.

Reload if you wish, I care not and since I cannot connect even less, but I have played PBEM where someone has gone missing and it has completely destroyed the game without knowledge of the p/w being held by someone.

[OzzyKP]

I strongly agree with that point on passwords. I've been in those games too and don't set a password for my civ at all. And recommend no one else does either.

I simply can't believe that someone (especially the person being accused) would deliberately log in as Korea to screw with the war. Doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Not like it could possibly be done discretely.

But it doesn't look like something that a random game glitch could produce.

Honestly my best guess is that Capo accidentally hit some prompt without realizing it. I still think the game should be reloaded though.

[MMC]

Wow, if this is what it looks like I am shocked.

As far as i can tell one of three things happened...

1. The game had some sort of error (unlikely it would manifest itself this way, and only in this way)

2. Greece in an underhanded effort to buy themselves an extra turn to prepare for war (or change moves assuming their would be a call for a reload), shut down civstats temporarily (so the hijack of korea would not be recorded), made them offer peace, then logged in as greece and accepted the peace. Of course only the host of the game would have the ability to mess with civstats. Those with knowledge of the hosts ingame identity know what i am getting at here.

3. Korea accidentally offered peace. (unlikely due to the complexity of events and the timing. Due to posts about the war from both Korea and greece, this "peace offer" would have had to occur late in the turn. Civ stats indicates korea logged back in a mere 15 min before the turn ended. This means that if he "accidentally" offered peace, Greece would have then had to have logged in during the remaining 15 min and accept. This is statistically improbable, and not verified by the civstats log.)

I would personally go for option one. I am sure this is simply a Pitboss variation on the infamous OOS. In which case a Reload is a good idea.

I think Occam's Razor can be applied here. If anyone else has any logical explanations... I'd love to hear them.

I also agree the turn should be reloaded, and Korea allowed to play before Greece as in the original turn. As a point of fairness to all, moves should be made by all players the same way they were originally.

As a side note, Cybershy, I would like instructions on how to change my civ password without your knowledge. Thank you.

Simply goto the options menu, and modify the civ options.

[Pitboss Maya]

Honestly my best guess is that Capo accidentally hit some prompt without realizing it.

Look at civstats.

On the turn in question, korea was one of the first to play their turn. The only other time he logged in was 15 min before the end of the turn. Between this time Greece acknowledges the war in his posts. (so korea couldn't have accidentally made peace on the first login)

If korea acidenlty offered peace on his second login right before the turn flipped, Greece still would have had to have accepted it. They never logged in during that 10-15 min. (according to civ stats at least).

I as well hope this is not what it looks like, but until someone can come up with a LOGICAL explanation otherwise...

I'll wait for Greece's response before i break out the big guns....

[The Capo]

Honestly my best guess is that Capo accidentally hit some prompt without realizing it. I still think the game should be reloaded though.

While I understand the reasons why one would think this true (because its easier to deal with) I take offense to this. For me to accidentally access the diplomacy screen with Greece (of all people), then to select a ceasefire, then to send it to him all on accident is completely ridiculous. I mean just imagine what would have to go into "accidentally" making peace with Greece.

Further, if that was the case why did they continue to post about me declaring war on them? Why did they continue to threaten me? If they signed a peace deal with me, and thought I maybe made a mistake and declared war on them only to send them a peace agreement to fix it, why continue the rhetoric.

I know you are just trying to figure out why this would happen, but honestly I am livid, completely livid. I want an explanation, but if it is easier for certain people just to ignore it as a game mechanic issue that is perfectly fine, I can ignore the explanation. But I wholeheartedly demand a reload, and I believe that everyone should move exactly like they have, and we should go in the same order we did before (particularly with me and Greece). This is, in my mind, the only way this can be resolved appropriately. I would suggest the discussion ends here, and the reload occur.

[St Jon]

Who is being accused?

If it is an outright accusation of wrongdoing then it is a very serious one and there needs to be some strong evidence to back it up or a very humble, indeed Uriah like, apology!

Capo, you are effectively making an accusation of cheating and that is very heavy indeed. I cannot really believe that such a thing is likely and it would require knowledge that makes the accused obvious. I don't believe it and I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill!

This is a fun game and played for fun so reload the frigging thing and let's get on with it!!!!!

[Pitboss Khmer]

Waiting for explanation here. I entirely trust the Greece player and would require strong evidence to the contrary. (Let's take care not to destroy anon. I still don't know who a lot of civs are)

Ridiculous to think Korea accidentally made peace as Capo pointed out.

The fact is in the Game Event log so we can't ignore this.

I also noticed that Roosevelt had logged in as "roosevelt" a while back.

It is also possible that any one of us could have done this? I've not looked at CivStats yet though.

[MMC]

Whatever is happening there is something seriously amiss with the ip address as I am being directed to 'evogamer' and others?

I do fail to see how, without outright malpractise, that someone could have effectively played the Korean move. I cannot believe that passwords kept secret without a CMN can possibly work and would stand against it. Any of you could take a line too many tonight and we would be stuck with a dormant Civ unable to even be taken over by the AI.

Reload if you wish, I care not and since I cannot connect even less, but I have played PBEM where someone has gone missing and it has completely destroyed the game without knowledge of the p/w being held by someone.

When you connect to the server, it simply gives your game the IP of the currently connected players. Your game then connects to those IPs using a peer-to-peer method. For the record, I'm the 'EvoGamer' you were having trouble connecting to (sorry).

In a pitboss game, it doesn't matter if the password is lost or forgotten, as the host can simply kick the player which switches them to AI and resets the password to a blank value.

[MMC]

As I have said before, I believe this to be a case of Tony's PC doing one thing and the server not noticing and thus doing another (basically an Out-of-Sync (OOS) error of sorts). In other words, Tony declared war, and played his turn, but it didn't register on the server properly. So when he later logs in to check, the server has noticed the declaration of war, but also has some conflicting records of peace timed after the time of war, and thus chooses the most recent state it has. This could then result in a declaration of peace, and thus the units are moved automatically when the borders (which were opened by the war) are automatically closed.