Beyond the Pit [Pitboss Diplomacy Game] [Organization Thread III]

[The Capo]

Originally posted by Pitboss Rome
The Capo, I accept what you are saying that the double move thing is important.

But think about the situation between myself and the Spartans. We have been at war for what - 100 turns at least. Now when we had troops in contact with each other, we were both careful to avoid double moves, but is it realistic for 100s of turns to keep being restricted to a 13 hour turn window, when there isn't any advantage in the double move to anyone? What I mean is that there is 'war' and 'war' - given Spartan attitudes ( ) I am likely to remain at war for the whole game, does that mean every turn has to be carefully timed in this way?

So I think that Cyber's approach that the degree of seriousness of the offence has to be related to whether any advantage was gained, not just on some technicality

It isn't a technicality, you are currently at war with two countries. While this may be a technical consideration, it doesn't mean you can just call it a technicality. Didn't the Mayans just declare war on you three or four turns ago?

This is why there has to be a strict interpretation CS, because when you give an inch people expect a mile (or a kilometer or whatever).

[Pitboss Japan]

I have something to say about the the nations currently at war on the other side of the world. Why when something interesting happens do all of you hide in your private messages? you should be out in the open with this war and nagotiations. gezzz you guys complain it is boring yet you hide everything that is going on.

[Pitboss Japan]

Also I think we need to make an example of Rome for the rule. The way we act now will determine the future when others decide to do a double move.

[The Capo]

At the risk of herr Cybershy deleting this post; this is precisely why we should have voted for my proposed punishment schema, and its becoming increasingly clear to me that the "silent majority," which doesn't seem to post either by the way, is being used by certain people to basically dictate what happens in the game. I think its almost hilariously ironioc that Cybershy referred to himself as a dictator under these conditions. I mean basically what you have is a group of people, and a large one at that, that don't seem to give a f*ck what happens in this game, then you have around ten who do. Under these conditions its difficult to get anything done about anything because there are already eight non-votes, and there has been a history of taking silence on a topic to mean agreement with the original position. Which I think is foolish.

For the record, I dont' think Rome should be punished, but I do think this should be the final warning; for anybody and everybody. And that the rules are rules, and it doesn't matter whether or not anything is being done. Just wait god damn six hours into the next turn if you moved last. Its that simple. I don't know why this has to be situational. We aren't unreasonable, if you legitimately can't play at any time other than before the six hours just say so and make sure you don't take advantage, but its a pretty simple rule and there should be no excuses for breaking it.

[Toni]

Just wait god damn six hours into the next turn if you moved last. Its that simple. I don't know why this has to be situational. We aren't unreasonable, if you legitimately can't play at any time other than before the six hours just say so and make sure you don't take advantage, but its a pretty simple rule and there should be no excuses for breaking it.

I agree with Capo!

[Pitboss Maya]

When the Maya double moved they were told to return any advantage they got from the move: the worker.

Correction: I double moved (no advantage), then took the worker two turns later.

If they haven't moved yet after your last turn then you have to wait for the timer (which I believe is 18hrs) to read 12:00:00 hours left before you make another move.

The timer is 19 hours.... so if you moved last in the previous turn relative to whoever you may be at war with, you must wait until the timer reads 13:00 (unless said opponent makes their move in that first six hours of the second turn).

Please maya: elaborate the Roman advantage.

Only advantage I can tell is that now I am on the backside of the 6 hour wait. No biggie. I do not want Rome penalized for this, but as Capo stated I think it is important that we establish a precedence here that we can live with moving forward.

[Pitboss Rome]

Please maya: elaborate the Roman advantage.

Only advantage I can tell is that now I am on the backside of the 6 hour wait. No biggie. I do not want Rome penalized for this, but as Capo stated I think it is important that we establish a precedence here that we can live with moving forward.

Thank you Maya for being reasonable about this. Was a genuine mistake, glad that no harm was done, and I will be more careful!

[Robert]

The Capo: When there's actually combat and troops 'seeing each other', then the double-move rule should be solid.

But in this situation there's not even a roman and a mayan unit near each other.

It makes no sence to be strict ont he double move rule if there are 20 tiles between Roman and Mayan units.

The double move rule is about combat situation where one gets advantage of moving twice.
Let's just be reasonable on it.

[The Capo]

I don't understand why you think that simply because soldiers can't see one another there should be no double-move rule? That is ridiculous.

If you just make it a solid rule at all times there won't be arguments about it each time it happens, I don't understand why this is difficult for you to understand and why you insist on trying to decide on a case-by-base basis. If you do it like that you are ALWAYS going to have problems, just make it a solid rule and be done with it.

[Robert]

It's a different approach.
You approach people like they are potential cheaters.
I approach people like they are honest but may make a mistake.

Your approach is the American approach, hard penalties, no excuses.
My approach is the dutch approach, take the circumstances into account.

Like in this situation, Rome was not cheating. He just did his turn when he was able to login. You want to give him a penalty for that?

This rule was created to avoid people to take advantage during war-times by moving units twice. It'll be very clear and very solid when this is the case.

And no, there won't be problems. There are only problems with people who insist on harsh penaties everyime someone made a mistake that had no concequences.

What's up with your strict rules harsh penalties attitude? Why not get an "We are online-friends having some fun playing an online game" attitude?

We're not in Singapore, last time I checked.

[The Capo]

Originally posted by The Capo
For the record, I dont' think Rome should be punished, but I do think this should be the final warning; for anybody and everybody. And that the rules are rules, and it doesn't matter whether or not anything is being done. Just wait god damn six hours into the next turn if you moved last. Its that simple. I don't know why this has to be situational. We aren't unreasonable, if you legitimately can't play at any time other than before the six hours just say so and make sure you don't take advantage, but its a pretty simple rule and there should be no excuses for breaking it.

That is a quote from me, just a few posts ago. In which I specifically say that I don't think Rome should be punished. You are overstating my position Cyber, and then for some reason calling it an "American" as opposed to "Dutch" approach, which to me makes absolutely no sense at all, and seems to me to be intended as some sort of insult.

I didn't suggest any penalties for Rome, so I don't know where this harsh label comes from. Then you say it is very clear and solid, well it is "war-time" right now, so in your mind what constitutes "war-time"? Didn't he kill some of your, oops I mean "Greece's", units a few turns ago? Is there not a war going on right now? Last time I checked there was.

And again, I don't know why you are making me out to be some sort of tyrant who wants to go around punishing people for no reason. That is hardly the case, I just want to ensure that this doesn't happen (because it isn't supposed to) and make sure that everyone understands the rules and there is no confusion. If you have a plainly stated rule, that doesn't harm anyone, that everyone understands clearly and can follow then you simply will not enounter this issue again.

I'd also appreciate it if you would stop insulting Americans, no matter how masked you think it is.

[Pitboss Khmer]

Originally posted by Pitboss Japan
This game is great and it would be better if the civs on the other side of the world would not be so boring.

I really wish players would stop saying what we all should or should not do.

A secret pact in our continent is hardly a secret if we broadcast discussions to wipe out Japan and totally control Serenity Island.

Now would it?

Some hidden diplomacy is necessary but as I've posted before I agree that as much as possible should be kept in the threads; so just trust us

[Pitboss Maya]

There is a one word reason why the "troops seeing each other" approach will not work.

Railroads.

[The Capo]

Originally posted by Pitboss Khmer


I really wish players would stop saying what we all should or should not do.

A secret pact in our continent is hardly a secret if we broadcast discussions to wipe out Japan and totally control Serenity Island.

Now would it?

Some hidden diplomacy is necessary but as I've posted before I agree that as much as possible should be kept in the threads; so just trust us

I concur; some things are a secret because they should remain so.

[MMC]

Simply put, we are getting our stories straight before we post. I'm sure these discussions can be written into the story as the events of the Hastings Conference.