Beyond the Pit - Argument Thread

[Pitboss Korea]

I was going to post a long rant telling Ozzy to edited out by CS, but CyberShy put it better and more tactfully.

I have posted an in-character response to all of this, but it looks like Maya is still trying to play on the confusion of the situation to his advantage. Calling me "stubborn" is not exactly helpful.

Edit CS (mod hat): please watch the language

[OzzyKP]

Well if you're not Deity then why would you be offended by what I say? My major complaint towards Korea has to do with you being Deity and being dishonest. If you are someone other than Deity then what issue is it of yours?

If you are Deity then you are being an even bigger jerk by continuing to cover this up and pretend nothing has happened.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by CyberShy
@Ozzy: you'd better stop assuming things and post conclusions based on guesses. There's no reason at all to believe that deity is Corea, so it's a 1 out of 15 change you're right. Those odds are way too small to accuse deity from the things you accuse him from. Not to mention that you apparantly don't trust him.

The Corea/Maya thing is already big enough, no need to introduce a deity/ozzy conflict as well.

There are plenty of people posting here defending Korea against Maya, why isn't it allowed to defend Maya against Korea? I'm simply responding to a lot of points Maya brought up.


(though for the record I disagree with Maya's opinion that the vets get ahead by deliberately manipulating the rules. In general I think the vets play honestly, they just seem far more focused on winning for themselves then ensuring a good, healthy, and fun game for everyone. That just means they are really good and want to win, that doesn't mean they cheat. Unless of course Deity picked Korea.)

[Pitboss Korea]

Yeah, having you say "don't trust Korea because he's probably Deity" shouldn't be an issue for me at all.

[Toni]

I do not think Deity is Korea! 99 1/2% SURE OF IT.

[Toni]

Korea just needs to stand up to Maya (IC, deal with him, negotiate)! And I love Maya taking on that agressive tribe role.

That part of the world is turing to be very interesting

[Robert]

There are plenty of people posting here defending Korea against Maya, why isn't it allowed to defend Maya against Korea? I'm simply responding to a lot of points Maya brought up.

I have no problems with you defending the Maya (though I think this case is better served without forming groups of people who defend one or the other), I have a problem with your guess that Corea = deity, and the conclusions you draw from that, without having any evidence.

[Toni]

@ Ozzy do not drag me into this issue please!

Toni, Deity and I all agreed to it.

Then Toni & Deity picked a Fin or an Ind civ.

I never agreed to not picking fin or ind trait, the issue was brought up by deity.

Only when you made it clear and ppl agreed to it i went back and changed it.

So what you said wasn't correct and you are giving the the wrong impression to people.

[Pitboss Korea]

Thanks for editing my post, CS. We wouldn't want anyone to have to see the little stars that the auto-censor puts in.

[Pitboss Natives]

Originally posted by Pitboss Korea
Thanks for editing my post, CS. We wouldn't want anyone to have to see the little stars that the auto-censor puts in.

Well, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what "word" is supposed to be in the place of the auto-censor "star" field. CS had every right to take the appropriate action in my mind.

[Rasputin]

Well as i the only one who got his own category thanks to Cyber , as a non vet, non pro non newbie, I think the only answer is for everyone on Koreas continent to gang together with the side they agree with and go to war with the other side.

He with the biggest stick wins

[The Capo]

I would agree with Rasputin, this should be settled in game.

I know some of you are probably going to get offended by my involvement at all in this mess, partially because I am not in the game and barely know what the issue is but also because I left a game and haven't been around in a while, which would be the second time I've done this, so if there is some animus towards me over that I understand.

Despite that, I think Ozzy is trying to parse the Maya's concerns into a general thought; that Deity is Korea/Corea (however we are spelling it officially). Now, he is either (a) saying this HIMSELF, which means he is personally angry with Deity for his betrayal, ie taking a trait he said he would not, or he is (b) saying that Maya is accusing Deity of being Korea and is explaining that in that sense he would be angry about the betrayal. Either way I think he assumed Deity is Korea partially due to what the Maya was trying to say in their "guide" on the types of players.

Now I will say this; Deity is manipulative, and he is a liar, and he cheats people and is a puppeteer in many of these games... but all of this is in game. I sincerely doubt he would do something like this in an OOC capacity. I have been the victim of many of his duplicities in at least three diplogames, but they have always been in-game situations that I can not blame him for at all.

I would ask Ozzy to please clarify this opinion, or at least explain why you are accusing him of being Korea. I think this issue has also been blown out of proportion, and I know that this is partially my fault because I have stoked some of its flames. So, I should probably just delete all of this right now and never post it.

But I am not going to.

Peace

[The Capo]

BTW

Does anybody know if I can permanently change the flags in the regular game for BTS? I like the Rhye's and Fall of Civilizations flags better than the ones provided in the regular game and would prefer to use those, is this possible?

And I want to change the name of the Native Americans to the Sioux as well, if you guys know how to do that it would be cool.

Also; if I did these things would it ruin the compatibility of my game with others? Because I intend on returning to online play/diplogaming sometime soon.

I ask here because nobody has responded to my post in the modding forum.

[Pitboss Persia]

Damn, now i understand why this was taken into a different thread... you guys are really overheating your keyboards for this (small) matter.

But anyway... i like to feed the troll

As far as i followed and undestood the problem :

- Double move rule : There has been some talking about it, but no rule was really made official. But one could have figured it out by reading the mentionned posts on the subject.

- Cheating : I agree with CS... no advantage, no cheating.

- Conspiracy theory : Ozzy really seems to set an exemple that others are not necessairly following, but once again, the prohibition concerning FIN and IND wasn't clearly written down, there simply was some talking about it.
Anyway, since the "vets" had a second opportunity to choose their civ, i think that if one of them took a FIN or IND (or both)... this is dishonesty.
I agree with Ozzy when he says that the "vets" have nothing to gain in doing everything they can to be on top, thereby leading to more and more boring games (for them).

- Anon gameplay : Is a bad idea IMHO, and would simply be funny for a game where everyone knows everyone. I am adhering to it because of others who like to play that way, and i don't want to do anything against their fun. This is a point on which i would criticise Ozzy and Classical Hero BTW. The "metalheads" argument is somehow silly to me, since a different name would be enough to get around it.
Now, why do i think it is a bad idea ? First of all i agree with Capo on that matter, on the other hand it would be nice to know how experienced your opponent is, in order to know how far you can go if you are at (early) war with him. An experienced player would recover much better from war losses then a less experienced one.
In the end i don't really care about knowing who corea is, since i don't know the playstyle of any of the other players in this game, so it simply wouldn't give me any info about corea.

- Worker : If Corea wants the worker back, he should fight for it. It's too easy to say that he didn't expect the game not to be reloaded and hide behind this argument afterwards. I would ALWAYS try to keep my workers safe, even if working on a border with a peaceful neighbour. And let's face it : it's not that hard to keep your workers safe, especially on pitboss where you can take as much time as you want to finish your turn.



BTW: In what category would you place me in Maya ? Just curious...

[Pitboss Celts]

Originally posted by CyberShy
But if the Mayas are a stronger civ then the Coreans then the Coreans must be willing to give in to some demands, ie. regarding borders. If not, then accept that harm will be done upon you.

I'm calling bull**** here. Regardless of who is stronger, negotiations were done because of the unfair advantage the Mayans obtained. As you have mentioned Cyber, the issue is not really the double-move. Korea was wronged and no one has yet to enforce the punishment. Cyber, you tell the Mayans to give it back and then turn around and want Korea to make other sacrifices because Mayans unfairly attacked. Now you are going so far as to defend Mayans and tell Korea to give in to harsher demands. That should not happen. Fix the problem and then let the Mayans and Koreans start again on even ground.