Beyond the Pit - Argument Thread

[Pitboss Japan]

look pro, vet, noob whatever we need to just forgive and move on. i know everyone is pissed but the mayans are saying but if you put aside you pride you would see that a small part of what the mayans said was true and what ras said is also true. i think it should be up to each indavidual to decide for themselves what is right and what is wrong. lets just drop this before the rift that is growing between us all so early in the game.

[Pitboss Korea]

Originally posted by CyberShy
Once again, Corea, Maya didn't cheat.
He ignored/forgot about a rule, but didn't got any advantage from that.
You got into problems when you attacked his warrior and lost.

You should go In Character and discuss the borders with the mayans.
As soon as you start doing that the community will back you up in your request to get back your worker.

We HAD an agreement. He has yet to honor it. Where is the community in backing that up?

I'm more than happy to come to a fair settlement of this issue. I just have absolutely zero confidence in Maya's ability to bargain in good faith. I don't have much confidence in the community's willingness to make him do so, either. We'll see how it goes.

But remember that you didn't lose your worker because anybody cheated. You just lost it because you didn't defend it very well.

This point is absolutely not true and, frankly, insulting. I left the worker sitting there because I was contesting his double-move. He used that as an opportunity to gain an advantage. That's what this whole argument has been about, and moving posts to another thread won't make that disappear.

[Pitboss Japan]

i dont agree with him but i see where he is comming from. to tell the truth i agree more with u then him but at the same time i'm not blind to what is going on at the same time.

[deity]

Originally posted by Pitboss Maya
My OOC is only in reply to OOC directed at me.

This is such a weak excuse for what happened. The real deal is that Corea had next to no defences, stupidly attacked at a disadvantage, then didn't even bother to evacuate it's worker.

It is gold, and you should.

I should!

I will.

I love Maya the player

[deity]

So a bastard pro picked a Fin Civ?

Kill him.

[deity]

I just read the arguing thread and must say I'm totally confused.

I'm surprised that we are hung up on who is a pro etc. And I think some players are making IC decisions based on OOC assumptions - right or wrong.

And I don't understand the under current of, what looks like, bad feeling based on these assumptions

Have I done something wrong? Maya have an attitude here that is not in game.

And if deity is Corea he acts one way; if Raz is Corea he will act another way??!!

[deity]

Originally posted by Pitboss Maya
Oh, that is rich. Do you take me for an idiot? Remember me mentioning Vets backing each other up? I expected it to happen this game but certainly not so soon!

You better outright censor my guide, because once the masses read it all the standard trickery isn't going to work.

Who knows who will win then?

I wish I knew who you are but then again, better not for your sake...

Take HOTW12 for example.

If you like, 4 vets - Toni, deity, ozzy and lz.

How on earth do you say they work together?

Mongolia and Holland, who hated each others guts, worked together to help save Carpathia - a wannabe vet. This occurred both OOC and IC.

Go figure!

[deity]

Originally posted by Pitboss Japan
... but at the same time i'm not blind to what is going on at the same time.

Explain?

I have no idea what you mean.

[deity]

Originally posted by Pitboss Maya
The Veteran enters a game expecting to come out on top (or close to it). Nothing infuriates a Vet more then the idea that they may wind up a mediocore civ or God forbid near the bottom. If a non-vet bests a vet, they must have somehow cheated. Vets like to keep the rules loose for this reason, realizing that rule interpertation is an invaluable tool that only they weild. They mention how whining OOC is looked down upon, but only to add emphisis to the ligitimacy of their argument when they do it (ie. what happened to ME is so unfair that I MUST say something OOC although it pains me to do so ). The balance between the Vets is delicate however, they both fear and back each other up at the same time. Above all, they promote the ideas that that are often held as truths by noobs. This maintains their advantage because the less people who play like they do, the less competition. Once your eyes are open to all of this, it is quite entertaining actually to observe opinions about the same situation change depending on who is involved.

Ok, again take HOTW12 as a recent example.

I saw no OOC complaining when Holland (no 2) was double crossed by ally France (no 4) and attacked by Mongolia (no 3) with massive unit support from the Inca (no 1) in the Second War.

The same applied in the First War but without Inca support

The same applied in the Third War but America (no 4 roughly) also attacked Holland.

Holland (as a Vet presumably) did not make one complaining post about situations that many other players have outright quit over.

Fact.

Toni for instance generally has a very non-bias view of ingame situations. This isn't to say however that he isn't one of the most sneaky in other areas.

Is this a case of a Pro backing up a Vet in a nice little cosy way?

[Robert]

Maya: Oh, that is rich. Do you take me for an idiot?

Read your first post in the 'argumentation' thread.
deity is backing you up there.... and you go against him.
Not saying you're an idiot, everybody makes mistakes now and then

It wasn't ment to be insulting. I posted it to level the playing field so to speak.

Well, maybe I've misunderstood you, but placing such a 'guide' in the middle of an escalating argument felt like a big insult-fest to me.

Not to mention that it's far from being true.
I'm not sure how you would place me in your noob/pro/vet table, but I'm defenitely not playing to win nor am I playing only for the rich stories.
I've seen all better players (except Toni, who's schockingly good at this game) at the lower part of the scorelist. deity was england in HOTW 5, he was not one of the top-players. He continued IC. Ozzy was england (cursed civ?) at HOTW7 (??) and never was a big civ, continued it, both with rich stories and in-game character moves. Me myself has never been on the top.

LzPrst only quits the game because he can pick up some girlies.
Well Toni.... never saw him losing indeed. Let's hope he loses soon so we can figure out his reaction

Anyway, your noob/pro/vet table is broken.

Better defenition:

noob: wants to win, hates to lose, uses normal-mp game tactics, doesn't back his actions up with in-character stories and diplomacy

pro: wants to win, is a sad panda when he loses. backs his actions up with in-character stories and diplomacy

vet: wants to win, doesn't care that much when he loses, wants everybody to enjoy the game and takes responsibility for that, backs his actions up with in character stories and diplomacy

Then there's the special category, it's Rasputin:
doesn't want to win, backs up everything with stories and diplomacy.

That's about it.
The entire whine-fest now and then from some certain new guys about the 'vets' doing bad things makes no sence.

And for the record, I have no clue who the Maya or the Coreans are. I knew who the Mayans were, but I have forgotten everything I was told in the setup-phase of this game.

It's been made clear: maya, return the worker, for the rest: figure it out IC.

[Pitboss Vikings]

well this will all be much more fun when the anon civs are linked to thier identities.

Wont it

[Pitboss Russia]

The whole corea/maya dispute is a simple matter.

either. maya returns worker.
or corea spends a few minutes whenever they meet a new civ telling of how the maya are aggressive, dealbreaking, untrustworthy, duplicitous scum.

which in my opinion they clearly are.
nuff said.

[deity]

Originally posted by Pitboss Vikings
well this will all be much more fun when the anon civs are linked to thier identities.

Wont it

In 2010...

[Pitboss Vikings]

and based on the actions i see in game, i now know why people wsnted to be anon.

[Pitboss Japan]

well i already know who 7 of the 18 are already. so the hard part for me is not telling anyone else.