Beyond the Pit [Pitboss Diplomacy Game] [Organization Thread]

[The Capo]

I just checked the website and the timer is showing negative numbers, is that supposed to happen?

[Robert]

Just back from vacation, haven't read everything 100%
Too bad that Corea left us
I'm glad that The Capo wants to take over! [/b](it's patch to 3.17, not 3.13 !!!!)[/b]

@Rome:
portugal declared war on you because my warrior was exploring near it's territory and ignored portugals warnings.
Then I sent your king to the portugese to beg for peace.
The portugese nevertheless attacked your city (warrior) with their axeman. (they had axemen, you had warriors, that's why I let your king beg for peace, I'm sorry if I have hurt the honor of the romans ).

The axeman lost of your warrior (superior defense strategy by me 8)), then the portugese accepted war.

I didn't negotiate borders with the portugese (who came pretty close to you) and I'll leave that up to you.
I've done everything you asked me to do.

I think that's about it.

[Pitboss H Roman]

Charles II expresses his apologies to the nations of the world. Our civilization has been in silent prayer for a very long time now, other than our wandering warriors.

The sad history of Charles I, and the events leading up to our recent hostilities with India will be posted shortly.

May the Lord bless you and your poor infidel souls.

[Pitboss Vikings]

dont bother HRE, just kill OZZY !!!!

[OzzyKP]

Argh! Vikings you built the city in the wrong place!

[MMC]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
Argh! Vikings you built the city in the wrong place!

Let me guess... it's strategically placed so that it will be culturally overwhelmed by several Viking cities, thus granting "Ye Olde Family" with a free city?

[Pitboss Vikings]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
Argh! Vikings you built the city in the wrong place!

ozzy.

I dont think so, it was where you pinted to on map.

Accessing the areas you wanted.

Sorry if i misunderstood you. But checked my PM again and it appear correct.

[Pitboss Vikings]

Originally posted by MMC

Let me guess... it's strategically placed so that it will be culturally overwhelmed by several Viking cities, thus granting "Ye Olde Family" with a free city?

No i just built itnext to my Warrior. left his city undefneded though !!




Nah just kididng....


I think ozzy wanted it one square different to where ti is.

[Pitboss Vikings]

woohoo saw the first Barb Warrior too, Be careful Ozzy,


Bjorn and Benny may get scared of Barb warriors.

[Pitboss Rome]

Originally posted by CyberShy
Just back from vacation, haven't read everything 100%
Too bad that Corea left us
I'm glad that The Capo wants to take over! [/b](it's patch to 3.17, not 3.13 !!!!)[/b]

@Rome:
portugal declared war on you because my warrior was exploring near it's territory and ignored portugals warnings.
Then I sent your king to the portugese to beg for peace.
The portugese nevertheless attacked your city (warrior) with their axeman. (they had axemen, you had warriors, that's why I let your king beg for peace, I'm sorry if I have hurt the honor of the romans ).

The axeman lost of your warrior (superior defense strategy by me 8)), then the portugese accepted war.

I didn't negotiate borders with the portugese (who came pretty close to you) and I'll leave that up to you.
I've done everything you asked me to do.

I think that's about it.

Robert the Cyberian will be remembered as a great military leader if not a great diplomat.


I must say this gives me an unique story ark to work with. Two kings and one of them has been proclaimed a god, interesting.

[The Capo]

God damn overplanning, why do we need this extra e-mail when we can just use Apolyton?

I need my password for my e-mail someone, I'm sure everyone already knows I'm Korea

[The Capo]

password and name too.

Also, why couldn't you just post the proposal Maya?

[Pitboss Rome]

Well you can use the mail to send screenshots, also you don't have to delete the mail and you can present letters they sent you as proof, when they try to weasle out of deales.

[LzPrst]

Once again I return from a short leave of absence and find the world in chaos. I predict a massive whine-fest/flamewar/game-leaving sometime around the 1st-3rd of august. The prophecy is made.

Now to the matters at hand.

Corea left? I do sympathize with them to some extent.
I felt that the capture of the worker was gained when Corea was not playing due to trying to sort out the confusion by OOC discussion. A large part of the community seemed to agree and felt Maya should hand the worker back, and negotiate a peace. Maya apparently agreed, then went back on their deal to return the worker. I find this VERY disconcerting. It would seem, that the Mayan player's strategy was to yield to the community's advice, only as a stalling ploy. Not towards the Coreans, but towards us, the community who are by nature of this game, the only referees and mediators. It seems a consistent and cynical tactic, first defend the action, then renege on it a bit, then agree to a solution, then ignore it, then defend the decision to go back on his word, then debate the reasons OOC and IC, then keep it going until the community loses interest and just wants the matter settled so we can go on with the game.

To not give the worker back is not only capricious, but also unsportsmanlike, but it also shows a complete lack of respect for the community. It also displays that winning ingame is Maya's clear and only purpose. It should be obvious that any advantage gained, regardless of the circumstances, will not be relented even to a much weaker opponent, whom the advantage was gained from in the first place.

Another matter I consider greatly troubling is Maya's attitude towards certain players. I'm not sure who he is referring to, but having a predetermined group of people you're directly aiming to wipe out is just bad form. I am starting to suspect that your sole purpose for playing this game is to wipe out/cripple Deity, Ozzy and Toni? Whatever grudge you have against them is your personal problem, it should not be tainting our game. The whole reason we are playing anonymous is so that such matters DO NOT affect the game. Good players will show themselves to be good ingame and that should be the basis for plotting against them, NOT who their player might be.

And just to make it perfectly, absolutely clear. Attacking other nations IS a big deal. The least Maya (and HRE) should have done before they attacked (both times) was to indicate this somehow. The first time a short summary, the same turn even, from the leader of the warriors that he had in fact decided to move against the strangelooking, weirdspeaking foreigners would have been sufficient. This was very strongly explained as an important part of the diplogame the first time Maya attacked. As for the second time, a small post saying negotiations have failed or accusing Corea of using them as a stalling ploy, or a discovery that the Coreans were arming, or whatever, would have been sufficient story basis for an attack. Attacking and then justifying it in the Organization thread is NOT good enough, nor is attacking and then announcing it after the fact. Those are sneak attacks, and considered extremely bad form. Which I thought we established PERFECTLY CLEAR, after the first incident.


Again, that Maya felt that he was somehow justified in his near-crippling of Corea, and ignoring the general consensus of the community to return the worker, simply because he was certain that Corea was played by Deity, is a BIG BIG BIG problem. Now I don't know who Corea was, but if he is not Deity, and I'm fairly sure that is the case, I am sure that he is someone who will now never again want to play a diplogame. Maya, your unyielding attitude has cost the community a member. I would like people to consider the ramifications of this.


I'm frankly astounded by the arrogance, poor attitude, predetermined hostility towards certain players, and extreme play-to-win attitude of the Mayan player. Again and again we tried to make it clear that the purpose of this game was to have fun. Well, you broke that one single solid rule, by assuming that Corea was your blood-feud enemy, and harassed what may have been a weak player, until he quit. His attitude was a bit weak and inflexible, which is exactly what I would expect from an inexperienced player, which we have a few of.

I am starting to agree with the Vikings, this game is spiralling out from a diplogame, due to what I suspect is deliberate OOC manipulation tactics by Maya. And if that is indeed the case, then I suggest the Mayan player go ¤#*k himself, cause that attitude has no place in a diplogame.

Corea leaving is in my opinion game-breaking. We set out with the goal of everyone having fun, and though Corea was a bit whiny, they did initially have a reason, as they adhered to the diplo-FAQ guidelines, and expected others to do the same. There is nothing wrong with playing aggressively, but the Maya has taken it so far that Corea decided to leave. They might be a bit whiny, but considering the circumstances I can sympathize. And that other players feel that there is no harm in that is a problem.

There is NO double standard. There is the guideline that the game should be kept interesting and fun for everyone. Corea's inflexibility was problematic, but Maya's is worse, since it cornered a weaker player and made him leave. Maya has in fact, unapologetically, broken the one rule we have in this game, don't cripple anyone. He did this firstly, by exploiting the intial OOC discussion that occurred to clarify what happened, then made fools out of the community by seeming to adhere to their will then ignoring it, and finally, demanded a crippling border deal followed by war when such a surrender was not given. He has shown the Corean player, that the Mayan's are out to get him. And as such ruined the game for him until the point of leaving.


I can not let this behaviour go unsanctioned. Regardless of the details, the fact is that the Mayan player made the game unfun for the Corean player and as a result, the latter left. The one thing we all agreed should not happen. That should call for some form of response.

[Pitboss Persia]

Well, there will be a response. It would surpise me if Mayans will have easy time in making allys after such a behaviour.

Since this was the first incident in this game, it won't be forgotten. But i have to insist. The was nothing like uninimity or even a majority (10 players = 50% +1) expecting Mayans to give the worker back. So there was no comunity decision. Simply the opinion of a minority.

I don't have an OOC problem with Maya's playstyle at all. But still, IC i wouldn't trust him for a long time. Being a bad-guy is a decision he made and i guess he won't be the only one to make this decision.

In the end, i hope we may find out who Corea was, and if he wasn't Deity, that Maya will be a little less hasty about his personal crusade against some players. On the other hand, if he was Deity, he was the one being dishonest in the first place by picking a FIN civ even after having a chance to change his civ.

I am not defending Maya, pushing Corea to leave clearly was going to far. But in the end the one who decided to quit was Corea, and the one who prefered whining to doing the best of what he had left was Corea too. So i really prefer to have a motivated player like Capo instead of Corea.

And seriously... isn't Mayans performance impressive ? Managing a war AND building two wonders in the middle of a jungle is impressing me for sure. Now i don't think that Mayans will keep their lead for long, because many civ's already have three citys, and a friend or two.

Can't wait to see who will get the Pyramids, 'cause this wonder will almost certainly modify the score graph strongly, and for a longer time as Stonhenge or the Oracle does.

Don't expect ancient scores to be a clue on what is to come.