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Since we are currently having this discussion in 3 or 4 other threads, lets try to condense everything into one.
Since back in the Civ2 days the end game has always been a difficult time. Most players were unsatisfied with just using the in-game spaceship launch to determine who won. Drake once refered to launching the spaceship as equivilent to a giant nuclear bomb that would wipe out the world and end the game.
Several games, most notably HOTW2 and HOTW4 when the end game came near most people lost all inkling of proper diplogame behavior and just started conquering the world. In both cases this giant war of destruction just led to a lot of bad feelings, arguments, and the game collapsing.
Thus I and others conclude this is not an acceptable way to end a diplogame.
Other attempts have been tried, most notably HOTW3 where we intended to create an alien invasion ending, when we got to a certain point a bunch of powerful alien units would be modded into the game controlled by some outside player (like Eyes of Night or Markus) with the goal of eliminating mankind. If mankind united to destroy them, then we'd all win a cooperative victory.
Sadly we never finished that game, it would have been neat to try, but either way it is definitely a very contrived ending. I think we can do better.
Frank, then Lz, then I (and people at the ApolyCon) have supported some kind of points system coupled with a vote to determine who "won" the game.
With a mix of subjective voting and objective in-game achievements, I think this is the best system to determine a true victor in any game.
I think we should have votes for Diplomacy, Storytelling, and Military accomplishments, as Lz outlined, and then have set points for the following categories/accomplishments:
Traditional victory options:
First to launch Spaceship - 10 points
In alliance with first to launch spaceship - 5 points
Winning diplomatic victory - 10 points
In alliance with civ winning diplomatic victory - 5 points
Longest time served as Secretary General - 5 points
Most proposed UN votes passed - 3
Highest population - 8 points
Highest land area - 8 points
Most wonders - 6 points
First to circumnavigate the globe - 3 points
Religion:
Founding a religion - 2 points
Builder of the most missionaries - 3 points
Founder of a religion with over 25% distribution - 5 points
Technology:
First to invent liberalism - 4 points
First to invent fusion - 4 points
First to invent economics - 4 points
First to invent physics - 4 points
First to invent music - 4 points
Culture:
Having the top cultural city - 5 points
Haivne the 2nd most cultural city - 4 points
Having the 3rd most cultural city - 3 point
Having the highest total culture - 6 points
City with legendary culture - 4 points
Plus as Lz said, all surviving players get 10 points to vote in the categories of diplomacy, storytelling, and military accomplishments that should be divided up into 4, 3, 2, 1 for who we think is 1st, 2nd, 3rd & 4th in that area.
(or if we want to lessen the subjective share of the point pool we can give each player 6 points in each category distributed 3, 2, 1)
I think this provides for a good mix of real victory acheivements, other in-game achievements, and rewards for meta concepts like war, diplomacy, and storytelling.
The game ends when either a spaceship, diplomatic or cultural victory is acheived in game. Then we go to the forum and tally up the points and take the vote.
Since back in the Civ2 days the end game has always been a difficult time. Most players were unsatisfied with just using the in-game spaceship launch to determine who won. Drake once refered to launching the spaceship as equivilent to a giant nuclear bomb that would wipe out the world and end the game.
Several games, most notably HOTW2 and HOTW4 when the end game came near most people lost all inkling of proper diplogame behavior and just started conquering the world. In both cases this giant war of destruction just led to a lot of bad feelings, arguments, and the game collapsing.
Thus I and others conclude this is not an acceptable way to end a diplogame.
Other attempts have been tried, most notably HOTW3 where we intended to create an alien invasion ending, when we got to a certain point a bunch of powerful alien units would be modded into the game controlled by some outside player (like Eyes of Night or Markus) with the goal of eliminating mankind. If mankind united to destroy them, then we'd all win a cooperative victory.
Sadly we never finished that game, it would have been neat to try, but either way it is definitely a very contrived ending. I think we can do better.
Frank, then Lz, then I (and people at the ApolyCon) have supported some kind of points system coupled with a vote to determine who "won" the game.
With a mix of subjective voting and objective in-game achievements, I think this is the best system to determine a true victor in any game.
I think we should have votes for Diplomacy, Storytelling, and Military accomplishments, as Lz outlined, and then have set points for the following categories/accomplishments:
Traditional victory options:
First to launch Spaceship - 10 points
In alliance with first to launch spaceship - 5 points
Winning diplomatic victory - 10 points
In alliance with civ winning diplomatic victory - 5 points
Longest time served as Secretary General - 5 points
Most proposed UN votes passed - 3
Highest population - 8 points
Highest land area - 8 points
Most wonders - 6 points
First to circumnavigate the globe - 3 points
Religion:
Founding a religion - 2 points
Builder of the most missionaries - 3 points
Founder of a religion with over 25% distribution - 5 points
Technology:
First to invent liberalism - 4 points
First to invent fusion - 4 points
First to invent economics - 4 points
First to invent physics - 4 points
First to invent music - 4 points
Culture:
Having the top cultural city - 5 points
Haivne the 2nd most cultural city - 4 points
Having the 3rd most cultural city - 3 point
Having the highest total culture - 6 points
City with legendary culture - 4 points
Plus as Lz said, all surviving players get 10 points to vote in the categories of diplomacy, storytelling, and military accomplishments that should be divided up into 4, 3, 2, 1 for who we think is 1st, 2nd, 3rd & 4th in that area.
(or if we want to lessen the subjective share of the point pool we can give each player 6 points in each category distributed 3, 2, 1)
I think this provides for a good mix of real victory acheivements, other in-game achievements, and rewards for meta concepts like war, diplomacy, and storytelling.
The game ends when either a spaceship, diplomatic or cultural victory is acheived in game. Then we go to the forum and tally up the points and take the vote.
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