History of the World 8 - Set Up Thread

[Toni]

With TOSRT we still have the benefits of inventing something yourself and not losing control of your tech after you gave it to someone. Inventing a tech has a huge value in TOSRT.

I love the whole TOSRT idea, I vote for it actually

Maybe a 2nd rule might be trowed in, only trade techs with civs with whom you have open borders.

This too please!!

[Glohithia]

Much like Kuno said about Ryk, I will play this one out but will not be in the next one. Not that I didnt enjoy playing in HOTW7, but my work load and travel is starting to pick up again and I cant make the kind of commitment that is needed to be fair to the rest of the group.

But even though I wont be playing, I have an opinion on the rules

Tech trade should be a) eliminated or b) unlimited trading of techs you discovered. This will prevent the "permanent" alliances this game has. Id also make absolutely sure this gets Mod-ed into the game, that will prevent mistakes or AI cheats and eliminate any questions of impropriety.

I like the idea of making the game marathon, it makes the techs and units more relevant. I also like the idea of different types of maps, not always Terra. Or, if it had to be a Terra, how about the actual world map? I know there are a few good ones out there. I just wonder if the same basic goals of a Terra map dont make things a bit stale (but I wont be playing 3 HOTW's in a row, so what do I know, heh)

Ozzy had mentioned a few mods so I thought Id mention the Civ Fanatics website (can I say that here ) Up until this game, I had never played Warlords and hadnt played vanilla CIV for a long time. I had played only Sevo's mod, called SEVOMOD of course. Obviously, I find it superior to CIV and Warlords, but maybe thats just me. But if some of you want to check it out:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=219

As far as I know, it cant be played under Warlords. He is pretty good about detailing all changes made, its in Installation and Instructions. I think most of what he improved on would mesh nicely with a Diplo game.

Cheers and good luck with the new game!

[Robert]

The_Aussie_Lurker, do you think it's possible to limit tech trading only to techs you have self-researched?
I think that Glohithia is right that that's best.

[OzzyKP]

My rankings:

1) ozzy
2) deity (i'm tempted to put you first, based on years of ass kicking in civ2, but people seem to have short memories)
3) Frank
4) Toni
5) Kuno
6) Cyber
7) Mike - not a new comer
8) Ljube
9) Levi
10) Conq
11) Ryke
12) Capo
13) Raz
14) Nolan - sorry

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by CyberShy
The_Aussie_Lurker, do you think it's possible to limit tech trading only to techs you have self-researched?
I think that Glohithia is right that that's best.

If we decide to go with that can we delay tech trading?

Perhaps start it at paper or education instead of alphabet.

[Robert]

Being ranked 5th and 6th is not so bad with my starting positions.

My rankings (only based on HOTW5 and HOTW7)
1. Ozzy
2. Deity
3. Toni (nobody can deny his greatness in 7, didn't saw him in any games and therefor he's on #3)
4. Kuno
5. Cyber (He, Ozz putted himself on #1, then I can put myself on #5 :P)
6. Frank (harder to judge him since he played both games only partly, would be higher if he would've played both games)
7. Capo (I think he did a good game in 5)
8. Nolan (always playing, even if she's backwards and behind, that's more important to diplogames then being 'good' imho.)
9. Conq/Mike/Ryke
10. Levi (leaving a game because you're losing is really not so diplogamish.)


Next game the #1 rule should be: If CS gets a really bad starting position AGAIN we restart

HOTW5: started 3 tiles from France and like 10 tiles from India. Had to fight the French culture from the beginning on to not get totally locked in.

HOTW7: start down south between tundra and ICE (impossible to found a city near my capital b/c of large ice fields)
And I've been nice to Nolan (Egypt) who was not so far from me as well (14 tiles?) in any other game I would've totally destroyed her and ruled Terra 8)

[Robert]

Originally posted by OzzyKP


If we decide to go with that can we delay tech trading?

Perhaps start it at paper or education instead of alphabet.

That might be a good idea.
Paper and education may be a little bit too late though.

If we include the 'open borders are needed as well' rule we can just only decide to have open borders later in the game.

To make things even more perfect IMHO is that you can't declare war to a civ you have open borders with, and the closing of borders take 5-10 turns.

That gives a more 'friendship' feeling to Open Borders. You won't have open borders with all civs, which will naturally limit Tech Trading again.
Another addition is that back-stabbing (which is not so diplogamish) will be naturally prevented. Closing borders is one step into the direction of war.

Conclusion:
- Only trade self researched techs
- Only trade techs with civs you have open borders with
- Open Borders from ?? (Currency?)
- Can't declare war to civs you have open borders with
- Closing borders takes 10 turns (The moment you 'close' them the Open Borders trade becomes a 'new' trade that lasts for 10 turns.

The_Aussie_Lurker, can you create such a mod, and would you want to do that? (Only of course if all HOTW8 players would want to play with these rules)

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by CyberShy

5. Cyber (He, Ozz putted himself on #1, then I can put myself on #5 :P)

I only did that because I figured everyone would be upset if I didn't, and accuse me of trying to cheat to get a higher pick. I really don't think I'm the top player. I should probably be placed below Frank & Deity. But whatev, I'll pick last.

Also, the rankings is to determine skill level in game, not reliability.

[OzzyKP]

I like the idea of giving open borders more weight. Most people just sign them with everyone automatically. Except me, cause I'm cool like that, but everyone was annoyed with me for not automatically opening my borders.

Backstabbing though I think is part of the game. It is never fun to be backstabbed, but it is something you have to prepare yourself for. Hitler and Stalin were allied one moment, and then Stalin got backstabbed. No 10 turn waiting period, heh.

[Robert]

Glohithia, I like a lot of the ideas of the mod you linked to, but I think for a diplo game we should stay as close as possible to the real civ game, just to not alianate new players. Therefor I think we'd better only use mods that only improve the diplogame experience.

OZz, I agree that backstabbing is a part of the game. I'm looking for ways to make open borders more important, and ways to make it possible to get tighter alliances without the immediate 'mutual protection' stuff.

[Toni]

Great to see Ozzy and CS working on the next rules. Some good things i see!

Also would everyone post his reliability for the game, what i mean if you are so sure you will be able to play it say 100% curtain I WILL

So we can start making a players list for the game! To see how many people are interested and sure to play!

RELIABLE

And also lets start posting time slots we will be ok playing, see what comes out.

I'm good with what we have right now, as i said before ok with changes too 100% i will be able ot make it. LOVE DIPLO

[Toni]

Also can someone contact Capo, and check on him. let him know we will be starting say end of Feb. See if he can join us? That will be nice.

Thanks CS

[Toni]

My ranking (taking into account starts and performance in HOTW8) I would have ranked very differently if I was ranking on overall skills and past records!

1. Cyber (with that horrible start you managed pretty well)
2. Deity (below average start but pulled it off, a great civ now)
3. Ozzy (like his game style, pulled of some nice wonders and managed to grow a strong civ)
4. Toni (below average start, due to some luck, timing and an Rome AI was able to make it work)
5. Kuno (a stable player)
6. Mike/Ryke
7. Frank (We had very little time to see the real Frank, and we should be greatful)
8. Levi/Conq (only here because they started as subs and really had to adjust to what the players before then started, much to fix. I’m sure we haven’t seen their real skills yet)
9. Nolan (Good diplo player, great to negotiate inside the game. Very Loyal)

Conclusion:
- Only trade self researched techs
- Only trade techs with civs you have open borders with
- Can't declare war to civs you have open borders with
- Closing borders takes 10 turns (The moment you 'close' them the Open Borders trade becomes a 'new' trade that lasts for 10 turns.

CS you got my vote here !!!

- Open Borders from ?? (Currency?)

A bit more tunning here is needed i think

[Robert]

I like Toni's list most

[condor223]

I'm not as good as you are, so without tech trading, I'd not really feel in the middle of things. I'm a sorry player for sure.

(and not that good at the stories, cause im on the edge of things, like most small civs)

I had hoped we might use a slightly faster mode than marathon... as well as allowing trades unlimited that one researched themselves.

If there is a larger limit on trading tech, then there will definetly be less interaction, wheeling and dealing. I probably would not play the game otherwise. Let me know what the decision is.

At one time we discussed having 8-10 members, as those last few folks would gag on connecting. A standard sized map would hold that many easily and also allow for those of us who have older rigs.

Nolan