HOTW5 secret communiques...

[KunojiLym]

And some more Russo-Indian correspondance.

Czar Alexander II,

In the interests of continued and long lasting peace between our two great nations, India proposes an extension to the limited treaty of future settlement our fathers agreed to 'lo those many years ago.

Our leaders are becoming increasingly aware of our cramped situation here on the southern tip of our great land, hemmed in to the east and south by no less than three great kingdoms. This leads us to look north for our future, which brings us to you, great Czar Alexander.

It has also come to our attention that the lands north west and north east of Russia are vast and bountiful. Our religious leaders and tradition teach us principles of fair play, justice, and compassion. Through this understanding of the god's will, it seems most prudent for the mighty Russians to expand to the empty, uncontested lands NE and NW of Moscow and leave your southern lands to your friends in India.

Our intrepid explorers have charted out the immediate surrounding land that sits between Russia and India, and have charted ideal locations for future Indian settlements. As a gesture of trust and friendship we offer you these plans and ask for your consent.



I hope these plans reach you in the spirit they were intended.

Yours in peace,

Chief Bhishma of the Indians

Chief Bhishma, Lord of the Indians,

Russia is aware of and sympathizes with India's cramped situation. We have spent much time consulting with our sages and the spirits of the land, and have at last found the terms that you have presented to us to be acceptable. May this treaty hereby ensure the peace and prosperity of both our people.

Alexander II
Tsar of Mother Russia

TO: Emperor Carlos VII of Spain & Queen Catherine of Russia
FROM: President Humayun
SUBJECT: A New Defense Treaty

I write first of all to send India's condolences to both your families on the loss of Emperor Felipe II, and secondly to congratulate Carlos VII on his coronation.

As my first duty as newly elected servant of the Indian people, I write to inform you of India's desire and intention to restructure our alliance. Despite a long and lasting alliance historically, there has been some uncertainty in recent years. India hopes to end the uncertainty between us with a new agreement - a limited defense pact and trade agreement.

India proposes the following terms to Spain and Russia individually:

India pledges to rise to the defense of her ally in the case of unequal warfare. If Spain or Russia stand alone against two or more powers, then India will enter the war on your behalf. If Spain AND Russia stand against three or more powers, then India will likewise enter the war on your behalf.

This treaty will not apply in cases where Spain or Russia instigate or declare war - only in cases where they are attacked by foreign powers.

India intends to continue a brisk trade in resources, techonology and intelligence regardless of what circumstances of war and peace we find ourselves in.

Signed,

President Humayun

Russia is amendable to the terms of this treaty. As a gesture of goodwill, we ask that India assist in the garrison of the holy city of Yaroslavl'.

Grigori Aleksandrovich Potemkin
Prime Minister of the Holy Russian Empire

India certainly wishes Russia well, however such a pre-emptive manuever is not in keeping with the spirit nor the terms of our agreement. Unless Russia finds herself alone against 2 or more enemies, India shall not commit troops. Other technical assistance will be considered on a case by case basis.

In keeping with the spirit of the new treaty, India instead offers a different gesture of goodwill. We have received inquiries of late from the new Chinese administration seeking information of the historic ties between our three nations. Specifically asking for what payment China received for the troop transfers China granted to Russia & China. There was an air of suspicion in the inquiry - as if China was being taken advantage of by Russia & India.

I expect we have not heard the last of this.

Consider this a friendly heads up to a change in tone among the Chinese. Paired with their recent militarization I urge Russia to take every precaution. If war cannot be avoided, India offers direct entry in the conflict in the case China brings NSEW or other nations into the mix.

I wish you well.

Radhagupta,
Foriegn Minister of the Republic of India

[KunojiLym]

And some interesting correspondance with Germany in the time of Peter the Not-So-Great

To: His Imperial Highness, Czar Peter the Great
From: Upholder of Wisdom, Jakob of Germany.

We have much to discuss I feel. First and foremost I wish to request that you send some missionaries of your new faith Islam as it has many interesting similarities with judaism, we would like to get to know it further. Furthermore we wish to congratulate you on your succession as Czar of Russia. And finally, our recent great concern, the Indian military coup.

Following the return of Boston to America as we all know too well and too sadly, King Ashoka died under mysterious circumstances. Shortly after a general seized control of India and has run it under an iron fist for several years.

Though this is disturbing and most unfortunate news, there is an even greater terror lurking in those apparently coincidental news. We have reason to believe, and former foreign minister of India, Chanakya is sure of it, that the general had Ashoka murdered, or perhaps even is responsible for the evil deed personally.

As we in Germany do not really care much for your internal dealings with other nations, this however we feel does concern us. Mainly because we believe India will build a military to embark on a campaign of conquest. The first to taste the brunt of this aggression will be America, then France and then, possibly, an attempt to conquer Germany. Such a development is completely unacceptable to us, as it should be to you.

The reasons may or may not be obvious. First of all it would greatly strengthen India. In itself this is not a danger to you until a time comes when Russia becomes the smaller partner in the alliance. This is not far into the future if the great powerhouses of America and France were to fall into Indian hands. If then the military leadership of India, whom hold nothing sacred as they have shown by assassinating your relative, their own King, decide to expand even further, since such men are often without limits in their lust for power, they will have to expand at Russia's expense. Battlehardened troops from a war in the south will surely pose a threat even to Russia's long and open southern borders.

In addition to this possibility the coup itself is in fact a breaking of your alliance with India. The royal family of India whose blood mingles with your own and is the guaranteer for your friendship, now stand in the way of the usurper general's complete domination of India. I fear that this general will persecute and destroy the royal family of India and pursue a course of War against its neighbours. Though you may feel safe due to your previously good relationship with India, the basis for that friendship has been cut out by this usurper general that has removed your allies, the King of India and his heirs from decision making.

What I therefore urge you to do, for your own interests as well as ours, is to demand that this murderer general immediately return power to the rightful ruling house of India.

Germany will actively condemn this detestable coup and its regicidical leader, we hope that you will join us in this desire to restore the Indian royal house to their rightful position.

-Jakob of Berlin.

[KunojiLym]

Finally, an article that I sent to Capo to run in the Monitor, but which never got published

Civil War in Russia!

MOSCOW - With the execution of Lord Dangime and the death of Ivan III shortly after, Russia has plunged into a state of chaos. In St Petersburg, a man by the name of Feodor has stood up and claimed to be a direct descandant of Nicholas I the Great, and thus the rightful heir to the title of Tsar. When questioned, he explained that Sita, Nicholas's wife, was with child when she escaped the Zionist murderers and went into hiding. He stated that up till now, his family had not wanted to rock the stabily of Russia, but recent event have convinced him that there is no other option. It is to be noted that while Feodor claims to have proof of his heritage from Nicholas, that proof has yet to be revealed. The Regent of Russia, Nikolay Fyodorov, has refused to recognize Feodor's claim. He said, "If any Boris, Ivan and Victor claims to be descended from Sri Rama, why, the Council will have a field day. Besides, it is highly unlikely that Sita survived the Zionist Troubles, given how Sri Rama was slayed." At present, there are rumors of Feodor raising an army to march on Moscow to press his claim, though he has repeatedly denied it.

On the other side of Russia, the Impeskie Osi, led by General Kurbsky, have departed from Novgorod, and are marching on the Russian capital. Kurbsky is a veteran of the Battle of Novgorod, having served under the late General Alexander Shuisky as his deputy. No comments have been forthcoming from the Osi at this time, but the sentiment in Novgorod is reported to be fully in support of the move, and Kurbsky in particular seems to enjoy popular support from the Novgorites.

In other news, Father Joseph, leader of the Christian faith in Russia, has set off from Yaroslavl', with hundreds of pilgrims. Their destination? Moscow. Said a spokesman who declined to be named, "We want to show the people of Terra that conflict is futile, and that only through acceptance of the peace that the Holy Spirit brings can tehre be salvation." This 'Crusade', as has been dubbed by some observers, is to follow the path that the Apostles took, which means that the pilgrims will likely pass through Rostov on the way to Moscow. It is not clear if the Crusade will progress beyond Moscow.

[Robert]

Between America and India in the very early days

CyberShy wrote on Saturday, February 25th, 2006 05:58 PM:
Hail Ozzy! Great King of the Indians!

I salute you!
May your reign be without an end.
May your people adore you.
May your gods love you and supply you with all you need.
May the peace between America and India be without an end.
May the sun raise over our brothership every day and may it set over our friendship every night.
May the desire for expansion from some of our neighbours bring us close together!

I salute you!

Robert LXVII

[quote]



Chief Robert LXVII,

I write in warm appreciation for the kind words I have thus received from America. Your praise is echoed back tenfold.

To maintain a continued and long lasting peace between our two great nations, India proposes a settlement now of the borders between our peoples. In our dealings with the minor barbarian tribes that encircle our nation we have found that nothing spoils the peace sooner than dispute over land claims. It is our hope that we few civilized nations can bridge such troubles peacefully and diplomatically.

Our leaders are becoming increasingly aware of our cramped situation here on the southern tip of our great land, hemmed in to the east and south by no less than three great kingdoms.

Our religious leaders and tradition teach us principles of fair play, justice, and compassion. Through this understanding of the god's will, it seems most prudent for the mighty Indians to expand to the land north of Delhi, and leave our southern and eastern lands to our friends in America.

Our intrepid explorers have charted out the immediate surrounding land that sits between Robingthon and Delhi, and have laid out what we feel is an acceptable border. As a gesture of trust and friendship we offer you these plans and ask for your consent.



I hope these plans reach you in the spirit they were intended.

Yours in peace,

Chief Bhishma of the Indians

Greetings once again, favored leader Robert LXVII of the American tribe, your magnanimity is warmly received and appreciated in the halls and streets of Delhi.

Please accept these gifts brought by our courier of Indian delicacies and craftworks. It is our hope they are pleasing to you and your family. Accept them as a token of our enduring friendship.

Your maps have been examined carefully, and I am grateful for the additional information of lands to the west of us. Indeed the land we inhabit is vast. Your explorers are truly better traveled and your cartographers better learned than all of India. However it seems that in the many epic travels of the noble Americans you have not encountered the homeland of the Russians. Their great city Moscow stands just north of the proposed northern frontier.

The Russians are shrewd negotiators and will be difficult to convince of the equity of your proposed arrangement. Indeed many of my own family have been difficult to convince. Three future settlements had been planned within the area outlined as America on your map. My sons who stand to inherit those lands have been quite insistent that those lands remain in the hands of India. However I prize our friendship and everlasting peace above all, and am prepared to cede to America most of the lands you ask.

After hearing many wonderous tales of what in your tounge is called the "Great Sea" it has been a goal for many years to establish Indian presence on the shores of that fabled eastern water. For this reason we propose a modification of the treaty you submitted. Our courier has a copy enclosed.

A claim so far north of the American homeland would be difficult to justify to the Russians, however an Indian claim we feel would be more acceptable to the Czar. As it is desert land, we hope this modification will pose little difficulty for America.

This deal pushes the generosity of our two people's to its limits, and when signed will be celebrated in Delhi by a 8 day feast! May peace and friendship last between our people beyond our grandchildren's grandchildren's grandchildren. Robert will be a name praised throughout time!

- Chief Bhishma

Between Russia and America

To His Excellency Robert LXVII, Ruler of the American People

We of Mother Russia receive and acknowledge your desire for peace for all time. We too desire a peaceful coexistance with all our neighbours. Hence, we do hereby accept the peace treaty that you offer. May our people prosper and live long!

With regards to this 'One True God' that you speak of, our sages have yet to see any evidence for this. The spirits watch over us, as they always have been watching over us. However, we of Mother Russia are of an open mind, for that is what the spirits counsel us. Whoever this 'One True God' may be, we are certain that he will indeed watch over you, as the spirits have watched over us. You are of course welcome to send your wise men over, to enlighten us about your ways; we of Mother Russia are a curious people, and we welcome what new knowledge that may come our way.

May this missive form the foundations for the eternal peace which you seek, and which we desire!

Vlamidir Goberchav
Chief Advisor to the Tsar of Mother Russia, Ivan II

Between Germany and America

Hail to the Great Ruler of the Americans.
Hail to Robert the LXVIIth
Hail to the protector of his people
Hail to the proponent of their faith.

Hail from the Glorious Ruler of the Germans
Hail from Friedhold the Peaceful
Hail from the lands of the Teutons
Hail from the people of the Teutons.

So say we all.

Your message and courier is fondly accepted. Your overtoure of peace is welcomed by the ruler and his people. The Teutons, the Teutchers, the Deutsche volk wish peace and calm upon you.

Yet your speakings of the One God does not appeal to us. Nor does it stir fear or joy in our hearts at this time. We are pleased that you have found a spiritual uplifting for you and your people, but the spirits of the earth can not be denied. The power of the thundering lightning and the roar of the flooding river. These are the powers that our people recognize. This is the faith of our ancestors and the strength of our tribe.

May your God protect you, we alas need no such protection. Our people are strong and wise and we need not the help of demons nor angels to guide our path or hand.

Yet let there be peace among our people as long as I, Friedhold the Peaceful, and all my kin shall reign.

May the spirits be with you, and may the wisdom of the earth not fall from your counsel.

Friedhold the Peaceful
Ruler of the Teutons

as reported by Heinrich,
courier to the warchief.

Between England and America just before the Great War

CyberShy wrote on 28th March 2006 09:00 am:
Hail deity,

ruler of the English forces.
I seek your help in the troubles that have arisen with my friends and neighbours, the Indians.
It appears to me that they seek war with me.
As you can see in the "History of the world V" annals, they're coming up with reasons to seek war with us, the peacefull Americans.

Can you advice me on what to do to prevent the Indians from conquering our cities and growing out to the major nation in the known world.

thanks in advance,

Robert LXVII
King of the Americans

Hail!! I'm at work at the moment. I'll send a fuller response later
I have an idea but I really wish you and the Germans had helped me in a more diplo way last week!! My fault too... later....

Response from Germany to America just before the Great War

If India does indeed seek war, then let it be known that Germany will condemn any such aggression and answer it in kind towards the aggressor of our friends the Americans.

However, it should be noted, that as I have no common border with your nation and France blocks my way, I have little opportunity to do anything but protest verbally if war were to break out, the German navy is not strong enough to mount a massive attack upon the mighty Indians, but we will of course do what we can should the need arise.

Furthermore, I advise that you seek the friendship of my friend Louis of the French. He has shown himself a good friend to Germany and may also see unkindly upon Indian aggression.

Gustaf von Bismarck
Ruler of the Germans

From England to America and Germany

To our new friend Robert,

Cc German ambassador

Having been recently at war with you and Germany we both need to tread carefully in resurrecting our friendship of old.

It is clear that the dominant Indians mean mischief in this world. They appear strong because of their blinding faith in and loyalty to Russia. With such a strong friend on her Western border and us weaker nations in the East, the only way for us to stem the tide of this Russia/India juggernaut is for all the little peoples of the Eastern world to co-operate, totally trust each other and form a rock solid alliance.

It may take time and we English are still smarting from being the ONLY ever human casualties on this planet – a workboat and a worker. Not even soldiers.

We need confidence first and foremost.

Much talk is going on of religion in many parts of the world. Us heathens and herdsmen do not know of religion but may discover it soon. If we fail we are prepared to convert to your one true religion IF you can establish in each of our cities Judaism. We have 4 cities in the North and two on the islands in the South. Such an action on your part, although costing a little in what I believe is called “Missionaries”, will pay off enormously. Your cash flow will improve and a strong “Alliance of the Star” will be born, with many English converts and such happiness I believe.

This will restore our confidences indeed!

I believe your southern neighbours may also be of the star and I beseech you to work vigorously in dialogs to piece together our future alliance.

We will be negotiating with the Germans and may need your help in drawing borders for the two southern islands. Keep an eye out for an upcoming publication in the "History of the world V" annals.

The points we would like to negotiate as premises for the possible alliance are 1) Membership; 2) tight tech bloc; 3) tight resources trading; 4) a return of lands taken by the powerful nations in the very early years to your selves, the Inca and maybe the French. As long as the Germans and English amicably share the south islands our nations should be sufficient with 6 or so cities each.

I will be informing our oldest of friends, the Inca, of this despatch but it is secret to all others.

Trusting in your respect of this and you will find that the English are second to none as loyal allies.

Yours truly,

Elizabeth I

From America to India just before the Great War

Hail King of the Indians,

Word has reached me that you may join the Russians on their quest to destroy Judaism completely.
If this is the case, let me know, and I'll prepare my men for battle with the indians as well.
Though you should know, this is not your war!

We will fight the Russians, for they have murdererd many jewish men and women. Some of these women were pregnant when the soldiers of the son of the murderer Tsar killed them. Children below the age of 10 were brutally killed, just only because they believed in the One True God. I cannot let this happen.

Though this is not your war.
You were angry because you were afriad that I would send missionairies through your lands to your people.
I have never done so, except that one missionary that took the wrong road. I do appologize for that.
American cities have converted into Confusionaism, an indian faith. And one Indian city converted into Judaism. I trust tot both you and me didn't have a hand in these conversions, and from my side I can promise you that I will not spread my faith in your cities against your wishes, like I've never done before.

You should know though that northern nations have requested me to spread Judaism in their cities, so they would not remain heathen against their wishes. I will answer to their question. Though I will not enter India with my missionairies.
Therefor I cannot agree with your wish to stop spreading the Judaistic faith, the beginning of our disagreement.
Though again I promise, I will not let my missionairies enter Indian land against your wishes.

But I cannot let the murderer king continueing his cruelty. Therefor he must face war.
But this is not your war, therefor I offer you my peace for one last time.
I know that his deeds are not tolerated by you, who are noble. I trusted Shirley to you, for I know that you will not do to her what the murderer Tsar's father did to Sita. Because the Russian ways are not the Indian ways. Therefor this Russian war is not your war. I urge you to not join them, but accept peace and friendship with the Americans once again.

Robert LXVII
King of the Americans

This is our war now.

India will not allow America to attack its closest friend and ally, Russia. Your lies are unconvincing and our troops prepare for battle.

Good day sir.

- King Chandragupta

From Spain to America, just before the Great War

Glorious King of the Americans, Robert LXVII, our Lord King Rodrigo Diaz de Vivar, also known as El Cid feels for your people. We believe in our hearts that your people and faith is a good one, and you have been personally attacked because the Indo-Russian alliance is ambitious and wants nothing but power.

However Spain is not in a position to act against them, as they are our friends and neighbors. We suggest you get an alliance of fellow Jewish nations together that will defend your border from a potential invasion. I will work tirelessly to try and stop this war from occuring, but again, I can't committ troops against Russia or India.

Good luck, and long live the Americans!

England to America

Dear Robert - I'm quickly thinking through the seeds of an overall strategy that may be needed:

1) I speak for Inca and English and will keep Inca informed of all my negotiations

2) “The Star Alliance” We need to announce a great alliance BUT ONLY at the right moment (one hour before game start!) and ONLY when all parties are agreed. May I suggest an AIM chat? If you are able to speak for your southern allies then you and I can work out the strategy detail and timeline. Otherwise we should all get in an AIM chat ASAP - English/Inca, German, French & American. I suggest that we maintain Spanish support in a covert manner so that they are not formally part of the alliance, being distant, isolated and vulnerable from China and Russia I fear.

3) The dot points I’d like to discuss include the timing of the cancellation of open borders prior to war; our announced threats prior to actual war; troop movements and synchronisation with each other during war; target cities if necessary etc

Hoping to see you in person to discuss soon!

Your Lizbeth

America's response to Spains letter above

Hail El Cid, King of the Spanish.

Thanks for your quick response.
Your warm support is most welcome!
I can understand that you do not want to send your troops for war, though I want to warn you in advance, that if the Russian-Indian alliance may succeed in taking America, their other neighbours may be next.

I have formed an alliance already with most of the civilized nations of the world and want to ask you to at least build up as much pressure as possible, as you already promised. I will not ask you to send your soldiers to their doom, though I'm afraid that war will be upon you, soon er or later, for the fools will not be satisfied with only American territory. I believe though, that we can stand against the fools if we unite.

May I ask you to build up pressure against the Rusians as much as possible, so they dare not to leave their borders with Spain undefended, so the Russian troops cannot come to help the Indians? I will be able to stop the Indians, but I cannot fight both Russia and India.

I've never send jewish missionaries to the spanish cities, for I respect your faith and your wish to not let other religions cover your people.

I wish you strength and wisdom in the years to come!

Robert LXVII

Response:

Thank you for your candor, we cannot express enough the sympathy the Spanish feel for the plight of the Jews. We can not commit troops to a war right now as we are spread very thinly. We are not oppressive people, if Judaism spreads to Spain it will be met with open arms just as Christianity has been. We do not hate people based on their faith, it is ridiculous to do so.

We will try and put political pressure on the aggressors, but again we can do no more than that.

Good luck, and may American live long!

[Robert]

From Germany to America

I beg your forgiveness King of Americans, but Germany has already publicly declared their disdain for the aggressors and your unyielding support. My intention was to deter India that fears our involvement for strategic and military purposes.

I have currently 6 archers to send from Germany proper and perhaps another two can be made available from Island Germany within short notice. Another two can be made available some time after that. Axemen are being trained and will be ready to be deployed within a few years.

Your plan is a good one, but India entered this conflict reluctantly, which is what my ultimatum wished to strike at. Also, as long as Germany is run by me, hiding in the shadows will not be a way of German conduct. We will openly declare our support for our friends and our opponance against our foes.

On another matter, are you by any chance interested in philosophy? German thinkers have of late begun to ponder certain ideas and I am certain that if we are allowed to continue unhindered, something good may come of it. I ask only that you delay your philosophical debates until such a time when Germany can export freely a strong and sound philosophical code.

Gustaf.

England to the Star Alliance members

Dear Robert

cc Sapa Inca, Gustaf

Thankyou for the information. As I am in much haste currently I will be sending you brief despatches as thoughts in our strategic thinking emerge...

I think the Inca/English strategy would be to openly ally and maintain peace and open borders with the enemy until the "THURSDAY" cry. At commencement of the next year England moves all available mainland Axemen (will check the number - currently only 3 or 4) into Inca cities leaving just Archers in our cities. Direct attack on us is unlikely. But being a Monarchy I can only move at a rate that does not cause too much unhappiness in my cities.

So all Inca border cities will be full of combined troops to protect the vulnerable Russian border; and maybe use a few Inca troops, whilst we have Open Borders with Russia, to "have a look around" and see what's in the nearest Russian cities. And then report to you, the Allied Commander in Chief!!

Our troop numbers are not great and England's production capacity is the weakest in the world so war is to be avoided if at all possible. The production of more troops will be slow, except in London where production is good.

I have asked the Germans if I may send two Axemen from the southern islands through German territory to the hidden rear lines in America. This gives you added support and allows England to explore the lie of the land for herself.


Yours Liz

From Inca to Star Alliance

To: Elizabeth I, Queen of England (deity)
Adolphe, Ruler of the Germans (Lz
Robert LXVII, King of the Americans
Louis XIV, King of France

From: Huayana Cápac, Sapa Inca, Incan Empire

Most Esteemed Members of the Star Alliance:

I am writing the following to inform you of the current state of affairs in the northern frontlines, to request valuable information and to clarify certain aspects of this alliance.

First, the situation in the English-Incan front is not good. We are at a standstill at the outskirts of Novgorod. English have taken heavy loses and victory can not be guaranteed as the city is heavily defended. English-Incan forces have taken defensive positions in the hills north of the city awaiting reinforcements. We thus need to be informed of the situation on the Southern front and the current state of advance of the American-German-French coalition, if any, on Indian or Russian territory.

This is requested because, as it was accorded in the Star Alliance Treaty signing, this military venture had as its primary objective to allow the Americans and Indians fight it off without Russian intervention, not to attack the Russians themselves. Sadly, the plans to intimidate Russia quickly became all out war as an uncontrolled escalation of aggression took place, with English declaring war in the Indians, the Russians declaring war on the English, and as a result, Inca declaring war on Russia, as we are obligated by the Terms of the Northern Alliance.

The Incan Empire had no problems with the American plans as we thought it would help the balance of powers in the region if they bettered their position against the Russian-Indian threat, but nothing more. We had no intention of entering into armed conflict with Russia or acquiring territory from them as means of enlarging the Incan Empire, and any indications of the opposite will have to be clarified through diplomatic channels. We have to recognize the fact that our actions have righteously been interpreted as part of an expansionist ploy against the Russians, and immediate action needs to be taken to remedy the situation and stop this conflict.

Therefore, we are requesting that it is taken into consideration that:




The Inca Military Forces will not make an attempt on the city of Novgorod and we are requesting that our English Allies do the same.

The Inca wish to offer the Russians a cease fire as soon as possible, even if it means unilaterally withdrawing our forces to defensive positions inside Incan territory.

That we will be asking the Spanish to coordinate and mediate a future Peace summit between our nations in order to stop this senseless bloodshed.


Awaiting a prompt answer,

Sinchi Viracocha, Inca Defense Minister
Lloque Cusi, Inca Minister of the Interior
Manco Machaca, Inca Foreign Affairs Minister

Cuzco, 350AD
To: Members of the Star Alliance

After careful consideration, I wish to inform you that I will respect this Alliance as it was accorded between you and my father. As you have been informed, he has been apprehended and accused of treason and abandoning his duties, and I have taken his place as Sapa Inca. You may have noticed that as of late his commitment to this alliance was not clear. Please let me appease your doubts by informing you that it is of great interest and strategically vital to the Inca that we put a stop to the Russian aggression and expansion and that with that objective in mind the few troops we have will not move a meter from their expectant positions near Novgorod.
Still, the momentary cease-fire is deemed necessary for we do not see that an immediate attack would be successful without reinforcements. Nonetheless, please be assured that if any troops in Novgorod move to the southern front in aid of India, we will immediately move on the city. I believe we can hold for a while until reinforcements arrive and more troops are trained.

Yours to the end, whatever it may be

Huáscar, Sapa Inca of the Incan Empire
Star Alliance

America to the Star Alliance members during the Great War

Hail Allies,

Update from the American front at Madras,
The situation at the borders of Madras is not so different from the situation at the Novogrod front.
Quiet an important difference though is that reinforcements are on it's way.

As we speak there are about 3 catapults, 3 axemen and 2 archers on our side while the city of Madras is guarded by about 6 axemen, swordmen and horsearchers (6 in total)

more catapults, swordmen and axeman on our side are on it's way though (about 4 or 5)
I hope we can strike on Madras as soon as the reinforcements have arrived, which will be within 3 or 4 turns. I am sure that we can take Madras and start cease fire negotiations with the Indians. If that works we can march to Novogrod in the north, which is not that far away (about 8 tiles from Madras) and come to your aid. Perhahps you may chose to retreath a little bit to a strategicall position to wait for our arrival.

I tried to take screenshots, though the barbarian AI's that are in charge currently of all empires but my own, when I try to look on the map, perform really weird actions that do absolutely change the situation in an idiotic manner!

Robert LXVII

[Robert]

The start of the alliance between India and America many centuries later.

Greetings Akbar, President of the Indians,

I want to congratulate you for your election as president of the Indians. These ideas regarding election and democracy are totally new to me. I hope this will work for India.

We have been long time neighbours. We have had good relations in the past and we have had several wars in our past as well. What counts is the present. What does the present have in mind for the relation between India and America?

I want to invite you to come over to Robingthon and have dinner with me. You can take as many servants as you wish with you. We will give you hospitality and show you the great achivements of America in Robingthon and Washington. We can discuss our relation during these days and see how collaboration may benefit both India and America.

Regards,

Thomas Jefferson,
King of the Americans

Thomas Jefferson, King of the Americans,

That sounds like a splendid idea, I gladly accept.

- President Akbar

The message below is the message America received from England which resulted in the breakup of America with the northern alliance. America consulted India on what to do.

To Thomas Jefferson of the Americans.

As you have witnessed we have come to your aid in seeing through the establishment of New Boston.

Germany and England has gifted you considerable techs and I now require a memorandum of understanding on this for the rest of eternity, subject to Inan and German approval who are both copied on this missive.

We require you to cease technology research altgother.

You will earngold only.

We will keep you abreast of terchnologies that we deem relevant to your needs, perhaps a step behind our own NSEW tech developments.

All gold you earn will be split evenly 3 ways with the NSEW Alliance as you receive each new technology.

You may earn a little gold for yourself provided it is used to maintain a SOLID DEFENSIVE FORCE IN ALL YOUR CITIES.

You are required to not start any wars unless it is discussed and agreed by NSEW Alliance.

Although you will not be a member of NSEW (unless I'm overuled by my allies) you will have reasonable protection from us provide yoyr diplomacy and strategy steers a steady course in the world.

Your tyruly,

Manning

cc Sapa and Hochraat

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by CyberShy

It's a chat between Spain (Capo) and India (Ozzy), Ozzy pastes the discussion I (America) was having with him to show it to Spain. It's clear that both Spain and India fear that Madras is lost and the American armies (combined with French and German reinforcements) are too powerfull at this moment.

In the end America was never able to take Madras because of a French sub who spoiled 5 (FIVE) good axemen against the India defense BEFORE my 5 catapults would've token that defense down for a big part. (If he would have waited his 5 axemen would have destroyed the indian defense)

Anyway, I wonder, Ozzy, why you never accepted my peace offer? I'm sure that at that very moment I was on the upperhand and my offer, Madras for peace, was reasonable. You did not and luck was on your side so you could keep Madras and catch Boston later (which was no matter of luck but master war-tactics from your side). Were you gambling? Or was it 'arrogance' to never give up a city for peace?

I was afraid you MIGHT take it, but by no means was it a sure thing. Only you were so euphorically overconfident that Madras would fall. I was worried, certainly, but I still thought I could pull off a win. Furthermore we were very close to having Capo in the war and macemen & chu-ko-nos on our side. So even if I temporarily lost Madras we would have overpowered you soon thereafter.

But it is probably for the best that you failed to take it. If you took Madras and the war was dragged out longer I would have sought more spoils from the war. As it was you got off really easy.

So yea, I was just more upset over you taking Boston back when I gave you a pretty magnaminous peace deal.

[OzzyKP]

Great War:

Session Start (LazerKP:Crostothlay): Fri Mar 31 20:05:06 2006
[20:05] Lazer KP: 20:04] LBPBumout: And Spain needs coastal cities, so the only way I will fight is if I can get coastal cities.
[20:04] LBPBumout: If you guys can make that happen I can guarantee we can fend them off.
[20:05] Crostothlay: a direct appeal to us, or to them?
[20:05] Lazer KP: to us
[20:05] Lazer KP: he will help us
[20:06] Lazer KP: he wants a coast city
[20:06] Crostothlay: a deal it is
[20:06] Crostothlay: he can have the incan city
[20:06] Lazer KP: good
[20:07] Lazer KP: how is machinery coming?
[20:08] Crostothlay: 20+ turns
[20:08] Lazer KP: ok
[20:08] Lazer KP: good
[20:08] Lazer KP: we just need thold them off
[20:08] Lazer KP: i'm going for cash so i can do upgrades
[20:09] Crostothlay: i'm still full ahead on research
[20:09] Lazer KP: ok
[20:09] Crostothlay: but once i get machinary i'll switch to money too
[20:09] Lazer KP: ok
[20:09] Lazer KP: how is novgorod?
[20:09] Lazer KP: i can't believe i lost that horse
[20:09] Lazer KP: grrr
[20:09] Crostothlay: it may still hold for now
[20:10] Lazer KP: i lost two stacked battles so far
[20:10] Lazer KP: that i shouldn't have lost
[20:10] Lazer KP: grrr
[20:10] Crostothlay: i pop-rushed in all my cities like crazy
[20:10] Lazer KP: yea me too
[20:10] Crostothlay: the people are supremely unhappy
[20:10] Lazer KP: hopefully i'll survive
[20:10] Lazer KP: madras and delhi have troops outside of them
[20:10] Crostothlay: nick's axes are in delhi
[20:11] Lazer KP: ok thanks
[20:11] Crostothlay: you want me to withdraw from boston? or keep up the pressure?
[20:11] Lazer KP: i think we can hold it
[20:11] Crostothlay: right
[20:11] Lazer KP: isolate boston and move to new york
[20:11] Crostothlay: in other words, kill the roads
[20:11] Lazer KP: yea
[20:11] Lazer KP: new york has one archer in it
[20:11] Crostothlay: hah!
[20:12] Lazer KP: though they may get more in there soon
[20:12] Lazer KP: there is an arch right next to it ready to go in
[20:12] Crostothlay: raze it to the ground i shall! that will teach the american sloth!
[20:12] Lazer KP: hehe
[20:12] Lazer KP: grr, i was going to make this thing really limited, but now i want blood
[20:12] Crostothlay: heh
[20:13] Crostothlay: beware though... once ivan dies, russia may pull out of the war
[20:13] Crostothlay: though it remains to be seen
[20:13] Lazer KP: ah!

More Great War:

Session Start (LazerKP:Crostothlay): Fri Apr 21 00:07:22 2006
[00:11] Lazer KP: if we end up using a sub for you tomorrow, you should write up some instructions
[01:48] Crostothlay: lesse... the main instructions would be to use slaverly indiscrimatedly, and whip out missionaries from the christian city
[04:05] Crostothlay: as for the conduct of the war... i'll leave that to the sub
[04:06] Crostothlay: and should spain enter the war officially, we want to capture the city on the vodka river for ourselves
[04:06] Crostothlay: (i've put up convienient labels )
[04:07] Crostothlay: tech-wise... i'll want either divine right or education/paper
[04:08] Crostothlay: but, after we get machinary, it should 100% tax until we get enough money to upgrade all units
[04:08] Crostothlay: oh, and rename st petes to Sri Nikolaevsky

Session Start (LazerKP:Crostothlay): Fri Apr 21 21:59:44 2006
[21:59] Lazer KP: we won!!!
[21:59] Lazer KP: the war is over!!
[21:59] Lazer KP: we won!!!
Session Close (Crostothlay): Fri Apr 21 22:00:47 2006

[OzzyKP]

Great War Victory Party

Session Start (LazerKP:lazerkpchat888): Fri Apr 21 21:40:29 2006
[21:40] *** dangime has been invited to the group chat.
[21:40] *** dangime has joined the chat.
[21:40] *** LBPBumout has been invited to the group chat.
[21:40] *** Crostothlay has been invited to the group chat.
[21:40] Lazer KP: ah, that was awesome!
[21:41] dangime: I left Russia with 2 big fat armies. One in Novgorod the other just outside of that town I seiged.
[21:41] Lazer KP: awesome
[21:41] dangime: But honestly russia could use a session of internal development.
[21:41] *** LBPBumout has joined the chat.
[21:42] Lazer KP: wheee!
[21:42] LBPBumout: I'm sorry I coulnd't get my armies there Ozzy.
[21:42] dangime: Congrats guys.
[21:42] LBPBumout: I had to move them through my frontier, which is all forests.
[21:42] dangime: I used the ones you gifted early effectively. Thank you.
[21:42] dangime: They were important in containing the north.
[21:42] LBPBumout: Then when I got to Russia its like, has Kuno ever heard of roads before.
[21:42] Lazer KP: that's ok capo, i out manuevered him
[21:43] LBPBumout: Alright, I have a feeling Deity is up to something.
[21:43] LBPBumout: He got an open borders with me, and even asked me for tech.
[21:43] dangime: The Incan and Deity had about 12 axes tied up there the whole game.
[21:43] LBPBumout: Right after the battle, the only reason I accepted open borders was to bolster my reputation, which took a huge hit.
[21:43] LBPBumout: Yeah, that was key.
[21:44] dangime: The last few turns I started bombing the walls down and they suddenly give in.
[21:44] dangime: Theres really only one problem in russia
[21:44] dangime: It carries a huge burden in keeping the jews contained.
[21:45] LBPBumout: Well.
[21:46] dangime: I managed to stop both of them. But I couldn't make head way.
[21:46] dangime: But that'll probably be where the next war is as well.
[21:46] LBPBumout: Well, I have a feeling the next war is going to involve Deity in some way.
[21:47] LBPBumout: And frankly, its in the best intrests of Russia, Spain and India to curb their power.
[21:47] Lazer KP: indeed
[21:47] LBPBumout: They clearly don't understand civilized diplomacy.
[21:47] LBPBumout: I mean, they called me a traitor.
[21:47] Lazer KP: indeed
[21:47] LBPBumout: I did nothing of the sort to them. Time and time again my attempts at peace fell on deaf ears.
[21:47] LBPBumout: I was neutral, but once I saw England and the Inca changing the borders I realized I had to fight.
[21:48] Lazer KP: yea
[21:48] LBPBumout: Alright enough of the propoganda; I did what was best for Spain.
[21:48] LBPBumout: And that is all the explaination I need to give.
[21:48] Lazer KP: you got some strong allies and a lot of tech
[21:48] LBPBumout: Exactly.
[21:48] LBPBumout: Plus, I don't trust Deity at all.
[21:48] LBPBumout: So as long as he is contained everything should run smoothly.
[21:48] Lazer KP: yup
[21:48] LBPBumout: Alright, well Sancho didn't get to die like I wanted him to.
[21:48] LBPBumout: But that's okay.
[21:49] LBPBumout: Alright guys, I'm gonna get rolling.
[21:49] LBPBumout: I can't wait to put some posts up.
[21:49] LBPBumout: Later.
[21:49] Lazer KP: ok, cya
[21:49] Lazer KP: yea we'll have lots to post
[21:49] *** LBPBumout has left the chat.
[21:51] Lazer KP: this war started like a month ago
[21:51] Lazer KP: everyone was in on it
[21:51] Lazer KP: and we emerged victorious
[21:51] Lazer KP: that just gives me a warm feeling
[21:51] dangime: LOL
[21:52] dangime: Well I have to take pride in limited victories, but I see the horde I kept at bay
[21:52] Lazer KP: superior strategy, superior diplomacy, superior tech and production
[21:52] Lazer KP: we beat their ass
[21:52] Lazer KP: they had a big stack outside madras and very very nearly took it
[21:52] Lazer KP: i'm very glad i held on
[21:53] Lazer KP: and while their attention was focused there i snuck in a side force and took boston
[21:53] dangime: Deity said "madras was to fall easily" then the troops were to "march north and kill me"
[21:53] Lazer KP: hehe, yup
[21:53] Lazer KP: i messed up their plans
[21:53] Lazer KP: and they don't at all suspect that China was feeding me a lot of troops
[21:54] dangime: Well now Novgrod is a fortress and there's a fair army threatening that vodka city.
[21:54] dangime: But russia is largely the same.
[21:54] Lazer KP: i even went and testing something out to craft the perfect surprize attack
[21:54] Lazer KP: *tested
[21:55] Lazer KP: i set up a situation similar to the border between boston & delhi
[21:55] Lazer KP: and found a spot where I could put my units that the Americans wouldn't see them
[21:55] dangime: Nice.
[21:55] Lazer KP: then i just moved them right next to his city and next turn took it
[21:55] dangime: The whole point of my strategy was to be seen.
[21:56] dangime: Novogrod wasn't possible untill Madras cleared up, then the extras would just sweep that way.
[21:56] dangime: But I got it for free instead.
[21:56] Lazer KP: yea, they realized they were screwed
[21:56] dangime: Anyway. Thanks for letting me sub.
[21:57] Lazer KP: oh yea, thanks for subbing
[21:57] dangime: I hope your friend can benefit from his position.
[21:57] Lazer KP: you helped out in a critical time
[21:57] Lazer KP: kuno may be disappointed he missed the end of the war, but i'm sure he'll be glad how it turned out
[21:58] Lazer KP: hehe, i'm so happy, hehe
[21:58] Lazer KP: CyberShy was totally gloating to me a week ago
[21:58] Lazer KP: saying that he was gonna take Madras and march over all of India
[21:59] dangime: lol
[21:59] dangime: If deity could have moved that army....he would have, novgorod was hopeless in the start
[22:00] dangime: he had alot of double city raider axes sitting at the seige
[22:00] Lazer KP: nice
[22:00] dangime: Useless in the field against 1 star axes
[22:01] Lazer KP:
[22:02] Lazer KP: we didn't even need to roll out our macemen and crossbows/chuknus
[22:02] dangime: I upgraded 2 at the end.
[22:02] dangime: One in each stack just to look cool
[22:02] Lazer KP: cool
[22:02] Lazer KP: hehe
[22:03] Lazer KP: good to scare them
[22:04] dangime: Well Im gonna go gloat in a post. Later
[22:04] *** dangime has left the chat.
[00:16] *** Crostothlay has joined the chat.
[00:17] *** Crostothlay has left the chat.
[00:17] *** dangime has been invited to the group chat.
[00:17] *** Crostothlay has been invited to the group chat.
[00:17] *** dangime has joined the chat.
[00:17] Lazer KP: kuno is on
[00:17] dangime: ah
[00:17] *** Crostothlay has joined the chat.
[00:18] Lazer KP: Russia was in good hands
[00:18] dangime: Hi!
[00:18] Crostothlay: so gimme the rundowm
[00:18] Crostothlay: yo frank
[00:18] Lazer KP: we beat their ass down
[00:18] Crostothlay: i want details! details! ^_^
[00:18] Lazer KP: see the thread
[00:18] Lazer KP: Frank wrote a good update
[00:18] dangime: Yeah my post pretty much details it.
[00:18] Lazer KP: i posted the powergraph with the battles marked out
[00:19] dangime: The power graph does the talking.
[00:19] dangime: You have a mad army now. Deity and the Incan guy just sat there the whole time and stayed home.
[00:19] Lazer KP: the battle of Madras was the show stopper though
[00:19] Crostothlay: lol
[00:19] Crostothlay: sweet
[00:19] Lazer KP: they threw everything at me and i beat them back
[00:19] Lazer KP: it was close though
[00:19] Crostothlay: the drop in power... was that the loss of a city>
[00:19] dangime: Just units....
[00:19] Crostothlay: ah
[00:20] Lazer KP: they took novgorod
[00:20] Lazer KP: but you got it back in the peace treaty
[00:20] dangime: Well I lost novgorod but they had to give it back or it'd have to kill them
[00:20] Crostothlay: heh
[00:20] Crostothlay: no additional cities?
[00:20] dangime: I gave the northern town to the spainish. they did help out
[00:20] Lazer KP: spain got huamanga, I got Boston
[00:20] Crostothlay: mmm, right
[00:20] dangime: Deity put too many troops in vodka to move on it
[00:21] dangime: I was bombarding it with catapults when the war ended
[00:21] Crostothlay: aw shucks
[00:21] Crostothlay: yeah, huamanga was supposed to go to spain
[00:21] dangime: But if deity had moved then madrad would have been toast
[00:21] Lazer KP: yea madras was close
[00:21] Lazer KP: a few more units on their side and i would have lost it
[00:22] Crostothlay: heh
[00:22] Lazer KP: but then while i was fighting them off in Madras I snuck an army into boston and took it
[00:22] Lazer KP: he never saw it coming
[00:22] Crostothlay: XD
[00:22] dangime: basicly....if you look at the powergraph, it looks like russia is the only one making troops.
[00:22] Lazer KP: it was a brilliant military manuever I'll gloat about it in the story thread
[00:22] Crostothlay: ^_^
[00:23] Crostothlay: so that means i'm now the military hegemon?
[00:23] Lazer KP: India made a bunch too. We just lost a bunch in Madras
[00:23] Crostothlay: heh
[00:23] Lazer KP: but so did the french & americans
[00:24] Crostothlay: heh... both of us are the mititary superpowers now
[00:24] Lazer KP: damn straight
[00:24] Crostothlay: and spain is a distant third
[00:24] dangime: So yeah I didnt get the city, but you have an army big enough to do that AND hold novgorod
[00:24] Crostothlay: which means... they're all screwed XD
[00:24] dangime: There's this one forest hill right on the boarder with a huge stack just sitting there....
[00:24] Crostothlay: i'll put up a post later detailing what ivan was up to later
[00:25] Crostothlay: oh, what else was done besides the war?
[00:25] Lazer KP: Germans built the Parthanon
[00:25] Lazer KP: that's about it
[00:25] Lazer KP: this session was all war
[00:25] Crostothlay: heheh
[00:25] dangime: I humbly built horsemen instead of it, sorry. ^_^
[00:25] dangime: saw that you had it queued but....nah.
[00:25] Lazer KP: hehe
[00:26] Crostothlay: nah, i was counting on the money if i got beaten to it
[00:26] dangime: EXACTLY!
[00:26] dangime: thats why you have macemen and no one else does
[00:26] Crostothlay: you're working on the chichen itzca, i take it?
[00:26] Lazer KP: hehe
[00:26] dangime: Not really, they were on the defensive the whole time
[00:26] dangime: I was one square away from vodka the whole war
[00:26] dangime: at the great seige
[00:26] dangime: so why make walls
[00:26] Crostothlay: so the session ended with the end of the war?, heheh
[00:27] Lazer KP: i think we played a few turns of peace
[00:27] Lazer KP: 3-4
[00:27] Lazer KP: after the war ended
[00:27] Crostothlay: sweet
[00:27] dangime: I split up the army and defended novgorod again, thats about it for peace activities
[00:27] dangime: and queued up workers, boy do you need it
[00:27] Lazer KP: i started rebuilding Delhi
[00:27] Crostothlay: lol, yeah i know
[00:27] dangime: I did start by saying if this civ is #1 you're all newbs
[00:27] Crostothlay: what about the christian city?
[00:28] Crostothlay: XD
[00:28] dangime: Ehhh....which is that
[00:28] Lazer KP: hehe
[00:28] Crostothlay: the one next to china, lol
[00:28] dangime: On the coast?
[00:28] Crostothlay: yeah
[00:28] dangime: It has a worker making cottages, thats all I remember
[00:28] Crostothlay: lol
[00:29] dangime: It doesnt have enough production to help much in the fighting
[00:29] Crostothlay: oh well... maybe i'll whip out the missionaries next session
[00:29] Lazer KP: hinduism now, hinduism forever!
[00:29] dangime: You were in theocracy, so I couldnt do much
[00:29] Crostothlay: why was i in theocracy?
[00:29] dangime: maybe you can post about my perescution
[00:29] Crostothlay: hehe
[00:29] dangime: double city raider catapults thats why!
[00:29] Crostothlay: XD
[00:30] Crostothlay: right, gonna go for a short meal... brb-ish to check out the save ^_^
[00:30] Lazer KP: i still need to post it. i forgot
[00:31] dangime: k
[00:32] Lazer KP: the last 2 sessions were both 200 years exactly
[00:32] Lazer KP: 150 AD to 350 AD to 550 AD
[00:33] dangime: cool
[00:34] Lazer KP: so frank, good to be back to playing diplogames?
[00:34] dangime: Yeah, unfortuently mine wont ever get this big
[00:34] dangime: It has a nice base at least.
[00:34] Lazer KP: well you guys gotta post more, negotiate more, build up some drama
[00:35] dangime: Its hard with 5 people in one session. I have 4 citys and the old world is full up
[00:35] Lazer KP: what size map?
[00:35] dangime: Small, but we chose that.
[00:35] Lazer KP: oh
[00:35] dangime: We only have 5 players.
[00:35] Lazer KP: yea
[00:35] dangime: The problem is, its hard to act in a measured way in such a small game.
[00:36] Lazer KP: true, since every city is critical
[00:36] dangime: I ruined the first one because someone tried to pin me in early and I warrior rushed them
[00:36] dangime: Taking 1 city was all I wanted to do, but it was half his empire and his holy city at the time
[00:36] Lazer KP: hehe
[00:36] dangime: But it had no business being 6 squares from my capital and 12 from his.
[00:37] Lazer KP: true
[00:37] dangime: blantant land grab so smashy smashy
[00:37] Lazer KP: hehe
[00:37] Lazer KP: who was that?
[00:37] dangime: eehhh....
[00:38] dangime: cybershy
[00:38] Lazer KP: I think this game is perfect. 10 players on a large terra map. still pretty tight, but not too bad.
[00:38] Lazer KP: i think 8-9 players is good for large
[00:39] Lazer KP: 10 may be pushing it, but we got away with it since the mongols are AI and stunted
[00:39] dangime: Yeah....5 really isn't enough. If I successfully club my neighbor over the head and win, that's pretty much all she wrote.
[00:39] Lazer KP: hmm
[00:40] Lazer KP: well there is always the new world
[00:40] dangime: True, but I'm the naval power right now.
[00:40] Lazer KP: heh
[00:40] Lazer KP: how far are you tech wise?
[00:41] dangime: ....I build the oracle next turn so I can pick a path, probably metal working for collossus
[00:41] Lazer KP: ok
[00:41] dangime: Actually someone has ALL the relgions.
[00:41] Lazer KP: hehe
[00:41] dangime: and its not me, they are the others worth looking at.
[00:41] Lazer KP: i've got 3
[00:42] dangime: The others are bad, they just dont have anything going for them.
[00:42] dangime: arent
[00:42] Lazer KP: yea
[00:42] Lazer KP: that's too bad
[00:42] Lazer KP: but anything can happen.
[00:42] Lazer KP: england and germany found a chunk of land to our south
[00:43] dangime: Yeah I have a split empire too...
[00:43] Lazer KP: and have put several cities down there
[00:43] * Crostothlay is back
[00:43] Lazer KP: wb
[00:43] Crostothlay: oh yeah... any GPs pop out in muther russia?
[00:43] Lazer KP: i intend to pursue a continenal strategy
[00:43] dangime: Yes I put an acadamy in Moscow
[00:43] Crostothlay: sweet
[00:43] Lazer KP: so no colonization from me.
[00:44] dangime: It was giving me paper for the tech, and thats cheap so I held off
[00:44] Crostothlay: hehe
[00:44] Lazer KP: but if my neighbors start building up decent colonial empires, then i'll start to feel a bit less guilty about taking their cities on my borders
[00:44] Crostothlay: no colonization for me either, except for incan ancestral lands >
[00:44] Lazer KP: amen
[00:44] dangime: Yeah honestly you should just form a pact with deity and carve him up
[00:45] Crostothlay: heheh
[00:45] Lazer KP: pssh, we don't want to give deity more land
[00:45] dangime: If he wasnt holding his hand the entire time I'd have done it for you.
[00:45] Lazer KP: he's dangerous
[00:45] dangime: Russia wants land dammit
[00:45] Crostothlay: russia is forever expansive... heh
[00:45] Lazer KP: russia can have it. none for deity though
[00:45] dangime: and it has double city raider cats!
[00:45] Crostothlay: lol
[00:45] Crostothlay: hmm
[00:46] Crostothlay: i'll get peter for the next session, maybe... could be a bit early though
[00:46] dangime: The best thing for russia to do is find some excuse to launch a first strike on the inca before deity can come save them
[00:46] dangime: then you can kill the mongols too
[00:46] Crostothlay: oh yeah, the mongols >
[00:46] Lazer KP: i bet the english will make short work of the mongols
[00:46] dangime: No law against that right
[00:47] Lazer KP: now that they've got a massive army left over from the war
[00:47] dangime: Yeah....they have those double raider axes they couldnt use on me...
[00:47] dangime: probably bored too
[00:47] Crostothlay: lol
[00:47] dangime: Actually the best time to attack the inca is as soon as you see deity kill the mongols
[00:47] Crostothlay: agreed
[00:47] dangime: then you know where the axes are.
[00:48] dangime: Plus you got this sick army that can attack on any given turn
[00:48] Crostothlay: we haven't re-established open borders have we?
[00:48] dangime: Heck no
[00:48] Lazer KP: hehe
[00:48] Crostothlay: good
[00:48] Lazer KP: don't be too greedy now
[00:48] Crostothlay: lol
[00:48] * Crostothlay loads the save
[00:48] dangime: But the problem is the Inca will really be on the reservation once that happens
[00:49] dangime: Diplo games always have this problem.
[00:49] Lazer KP: if you invade now, i wouldn't be able to back you up
[00:49] dangime: Someone really deserves to just DIE!
[00:49] dangime: True...thats why you wait until deity is distracted somewhere
[00:49] Crostothlay: yeah
[00:49] Lazer KP: well any time in the next session or two i mean
[00:50] Crostothlay: ooo, nice army
[00:50] Lazer KP: ashoka is gonna be coming to power
[00:50] dangime: I had to split it when I got novgorod....
[00:50] dangime: that used to be 1 army
[00:50] Crostothlay: so i see
[00:51] dangime: bad part was, except the catapults, deity and the inca put together were the same size
[00:51] Crostothlay: heh... they have machinary now...
[00:52] dangime: Cats still own cross bows though.
[00:52] dangime: You can win on pure mass.
[00:52] dangime: I made that army to move. Its a generalist army.
[00:52] Crostothlay: lol, yeah
[00:52] Crostothlay: what did the chinese do btw?
[00:52] Lazer KP: funneled units
[00:52] dangime: nothing, sent you a couple horses.
[00:52] Lazer KP: kept their head down
[00:53] Crostothlay: were they officially involved?
[00:53] dangime: Nope.
[00:53] Crostothlay: heh
[00:53] Lazer KP: i got like 5-6 horse from them
[00:53] dangime: Spain did, but they also got paid off.
[00:53] Lazer KP: it helped a lot
[00:53] dangime: Spain made swords....-_-
[00:54] dangime: Such sad units...
[00:54] Lazer KP: heh
[00:54] Crostothlay: lol
[00:54] dangime: I mean there were 4 or 5 swords men running across russia at anyone time and I just said go to madrass
[00:54] dangime: Deity the Incan and I had like 20 axes combined
[00:54] dangime: no place for them
[00:54] Lazer KP: yea

[OzzyKP]

Continued:

[00:55] dangime: were there any spainish swordsmen in madrass?
[00:55] Lazer KP: no
[00:55] Lazer KP: they never made it
[00:55] Lazer KP: hehe, they didn't see action the whole session
[00:55] Lazer KP: silly spanish
[00:55] Lazer KP: but having them on our side definitely put some fear into the opposition
[00:56] Crostothlay: yep
[00:56] Lazer KP: brought them to the bargining table quicker
[00:56] Lazer KP: even though China was a more critical ally, heh
[00:57] Lazer KP: but they don't know that
[00:57] Crostothlay: heheheh
[00:57] Lazer KP: ahh, i love the perfect execution of a plan
[00:57] Crostothlay: XD
[00:58] dangime: Heheh
[00:59] Lazer KP: ahhhh
[00:59] Lazer KP: we owned their asses
[00:59] Lazer KP: it feels so good
[00:59] Crostothlay: i have to settle for feeling good via proxy
[00:59] Lazer KP: especially with how cocky Cyber was beforehand
[01:00] Crostothlay: XD
[01:00] Lazer KP: he was telling me I should give him Madras for peace because he was gonna take it and then march trhough India and take more cities
[01:00] Crostothlay: for how long did we have the advantage in tech?
[01:00] Crostothlay: ...oh yeah, they *still* don't have CS XD
[01:00] Lazer KP: i think they got machinery about the same time we did
[01:00] Lazer KP: yea, we've still got the maceman edge
[01:01] Crostothlay: hmm
[01:01] Crostothlay: i'd probably stockpile cats and then upgrade them to cannon en masse
[01:01] Crostothlay: or, beeline military tradition
[01:01] dangime: I started on paper....
[01:01] Crostothlay: yeah, i saw
[01:02] Crostothlay: i can go either way from there
[01:03] Crostothlay: my fav tactic against the AI is to slam a zillion and one cats on them, them let my elite melee units take out what's left
[01:04] dangime: That works. But I just told ozzy when I do my best killing
[01:04] dangime: You make alot of macement, with city raider, then turn them into riflemen
[01:04] Crostothlay: that works too
[01:04] dangime: But those cats cant hurt. There's no answer for them.
[01:04] Crostothlay: yeah
[01:05] Lazer KP: horse archers
[01:05] dangime: plus once you bust a stack with them, doesnt really matter what you attack with
[01:05] Crostothlay: i'm likelyto have a mix of them and cossacks (when mil tradition comes along)
[01:05] dangime: Yeah...ironicly you have one veteran horseman from copperfield
[01:05] dangime: and I gave it anti seige weapons
[01:05] Crostothlay: heheheh
[01:06] dangime: I sent it to madras, but the fight was over, there was one axe left
[01:06] Crostothlay: lol
[01:06] Lazer KP: i finished him off too
[01:07] Lazer KP: one of deity's units
[01:07] dangime: I coulda done it. I wanted blood.
[01:07] Crostothlay:
[01:07] Crostothlay: the infedials took novgorod!
[01:07] dangime: They did. It was 2:1!
[01:07] dangime: I rushed an axe but that was all she wrote
[01:08] dangime: there were 5 or 6 of them outisde
[01:08] Crostothlay: yeah i know
[01:08] Crostothlay: it was worse, but some tactical movement cut down their advantage some
[01:08] dangime: They really didnt want to give it back.
[01:08] Crostothlay: the bastards >_<
[01:09] dangime: But vodka was going to fall eventually. And if they kept fighting ozzy would have free troops to take at least Novogrod.
[01:09] dangime: As it is they just gave up.
[01:09] Crostothlay:
[01:09] Lazer KP: yup
[01:10] Lazer KP: i was trying to make a seperate peace with the southern powers
[01:10] Lazer KP: to isolate the english & inca
[01:10] dangime: I wanted to keep fighting also.
[01:10] dangime: But they wouldnt make peace with me. I guess it didnt matter though.
[01:10] Crostothlay: heheh
[01:10] Lazer KP: i got all i wanted out of the americans
[01:11] Crostothlay: the vodka city would have been a bonus
[01:11] dangime: and I knew I'd get one city myself. And this way I got one city and my army too.
[01:11] Crostothlay: but as it is i'm happy with the outcome of the war
[01:11] Lazer KP: good
[01:12] Crostothlay: novgorod is more important than that barbaric incan city
[01:12] Lazer KP: me too
[01:12] dangime: they killed half the people making units to stop you anyway
[01:12] dangime: it went from 6 to 3.
[01:12] Crostothlay: oh yeah, did you make liberal use of slavery?
[01:12] dangime: Early on.
[01:12] Crostothlay: i mean, pop-rushing?
[01:12] Crostothlay: heheh
[01:13] dangime: I tried to wait until it was only 1 pop cost
[01:13] dangime: alot of the units came from chops.
[01:13] Crostothlay: chops, heheh
[01:13] Crostothlay: wooden axes and maces ftw
[01:13] dangime: point end goes that way!
[01:13] dangime: pointy
[01:14] *** LBPBumout has been invited to the group chat.
[01:14] dangime: nah but it was that one frontier town you have with like 2 workers and nothing but forests I used it to pump horses
[01:14] dangime: moscow got a couple off from down south
[01:14] Crostothlay: cool
[01:15] Crostothlay: it was the one that was building the pantheon right?
[01:15] dangime: yes
[01:15] Crostothlay: thought so
[01:15] dangime: I didnt want to make the mistake the spainish made.
[01:15] dangime: Far away cities make fast units
[01:15] Crostothlay: heheh
[01:15] Lazer KP: yea exactly
[01:18] Lazer KP: ok
[01:18] Lazer KP: i need sleep now
[01:18] Crostothlay: night
[01:18] Lazer KP: i'm playing in some tournament tomorrow morning
[01:18] Lazer KP: gotta be fresh
[01:18] Crostothlay: heheheh
[01:19] Lazer KP: nothing will compare to this game though
[01:19] dangime: k cya lol
[01:19] Crostothlay: this game is the win
[01:19] dangime: nice to get to sit in. Thanks guys.
[01:19] Crostothlay: can't wait to get back into action next week ;p
[01:19] Lazer KP: r0xx0rs
[01:19] dangime: pwnage
[01:20] Crostothlay: ^__^
[01:20] *** dangime has left the chat.
[01:22] *** Crostothlay has left the chat.
Session Close (lazerkpchat888): Sat Apr 22 09:48:37 2006

[OzzyKP]

Session Start (LazerKP:Crostothlay): Tue May 02 21:06:06 2006
[21:06] Crostothlay: crap, i keep mission nolan
[21:06] Crostothlay: missing, even
[21:06] Lazer KP: heh
[21:08] Crostothlay: did you receive my previous messages btw?
[21:08] Lazer KP: i don't remember, what were they
[21:08] Lazer KP: ?
[21:08] Crostothlay: Crostothlay: just spoke with capo... he said that he traded music with each of the jewish nations in exchange for the open borders
Crostothlay: spain also feels that her support during the war has been forgotten, apparently
[21:08] Lazer KP: ah yea
[21:09] Crostothlay: friction between spain and china is very apparent, as well
[21:09] Crostothlay: russia is offering to meditate between the two of them
[21:09] Lazer KP: well nolan imagines friction between them
[21:09] Crostothlay: friction imagined can be made real, heh
[21:09] Lazer KP:
[21:10] Crostothlay: also... since music seems to be the only tech that was traded, it looks like most of the otehr advances were genuine advances on the part of the jewish bloc
[21:11] Lazer KP: hmm, also worrying
[21:11] Crostothlay: spain has reassured us that they have an interest in keeping the jewish nations from being too advanced
[21:11] Crostothlay: they have also expresed worry that germany intends to annex france, and from thence america
[21:12] Lazer KP: yea... i dunno, somehow i don't buy it
[21:12] Crostothlay: it's a little far-fetched, to be sure
[21:12] Crostothlay: but you can't deny that germany's buildup is worrying
[21:12] Lazer KP: yea
[21:12] Lazer KP: i'm more worried about us than france, heh
[21:13] Crostothlay: heheh
[21:13] Crostothlay: what spain implied is that should the jewish nations become one nation, the new nation would be a significant threat
[21:13] Crostothlay: especially if there is an alliance with the english
[21:14] Lazer KP: certainly
[21:14] Lazer KP: but i just don't see germany trying to eliminate france
[21:14] Crostothlay: i doubt that they would be elimiated entirely
[21:15] Crostothlay: but i can see them taking a few cities
[21:15] Lazer KP: france only has 3!
[21:15] Lazer KP: er, 4
[21:15] Crostothlay: inca has 3-4. your point?
[21:15] Lazer KP: heh
[21:15] Crostothlay: i don't think there is any love lost between france and germany atm
[21:16] Crostothlay: then again, france has done a good job at isolating herself
[21:16] Lazer KP: yea
[21:16] Lazer KP: the question though, is do we join with france/america to try and put down germany, or join with germany to take some territory ourselves?
[21:17] Crostothlay: hmm
[21:17] Crostothlay: russia, personally, isn't interested in territorial gains to the south
[21:17] Crostothlay: i haven't come to a firm conclusion
[21:18] Crostothlay: on the one hand, there is ancient bad blood between america and russia
[21:18] Crostothlay: (lol cold war ;p)
[21:18] Lazer KP: well you've got plenty of neighbors to expand into, india only has america
[21:18] Crostothlay: true enough
[21:19] Crostothlay: but a united jewish nation, even if reduced in size, might be worrying
[21:19] Lazer KP: yea
[21:20] Lazer KP: i don't want to post it until i have a story thread to go along with it, but check this out: (Link: http://oneandfour.org/images/Civ/HOTWV/map1010ad.jpg)http://oneandfour.org/images/Civ/HOTWV/map1010ad.jpg
[21:20] Crostothlay: nice
[21:21] Crostothlay: you have a more vested interest in the area than i... i will leave you with the ultimate decision
[21:21] Lazer KP: yea
[21:21] Lazer KP: and it'll depend on who is in power in india when something happens
[21:21] Crostothlay: heheh, too true
[21:21] Lazer KP: ashoka definitely won't be interested in war on either side
[21:22] Crostothlay: peter is a totally pragmatic guy
[21:22] Crostothlay: chankya would be proud of him
[21:22] Lazer KP:
[21:22] Lazer KP: chanakya will be dead soon
[21:22] Crostothlay: aww
[21:22] Crostothlay: well, he's lived for long enough
[21:23] Lazer KP: yea, seriously
[21:23] Lazer KP: but more on that later....
[21:23] Crostothlay: heheheh
[21:23] Crostothlay: i might request permission from spain to settle the northern reaches
[21:24] Lazer KP: heh, ok
[21:24] Lazer KP: good luc
[21:24] Crostothlay:
[21:24] Crostothlay: after i meditate between china and spain, that is
[21:24] Crostothlay: diplomacy at its finest!
[21:24] Lazer KP:
[21:25] Crostothlay: hmm... i might want to try to find a pretext for attack inca too
[21:25] Crostothlay: peter certainly doesn't want to be seen as a naked agressor
[21:25] Crostothlay: it's bad for his international image
[21:25] Lazer KP: heh, yea
[21:25] Crostothlay: christianity might be that pretext
[21:26] Lazer KP: hmm
[21:26] Crostothlay: since i spread it into cuzco so long ago
[21:27] Crostothlay: oh yeah... i bet ashoka doesn't mind if i spread christianity into india
[21:27] Crostothlay: though spain is the priority
[21:27] Lazer KP: ashoka doesn't mind
[21:28] Crostothlay: the hindu faith is dying
[21:28] Lazer KP: oh it'll be reborn
[21:29] Crostothlay: heheh
[21:29] Lazer KP: once ashoka leaves
[21:29] Crostothlay: by then, the orthodox church would probably have taken hold in russia
[21:30] Lazer KP: yup
[21:30] Crostothlay: peter would keep to christianity for purely pragmatic reasons
[21:31] Crostothlay: i have no idea how the other tsars after him would react though
[21:31] Crostothlay: guess it depends on what happens in the upcoming session
[21:35] Lazer KP: yea

[OzzyKP]

Session Start (LazerKP:Crostothlay): Wed May 03 09:41:10 2006
[09:41] Crostothlay: you there?
[09:41] Lazer KP: yup
[09:41] Crostothlay: held the china-spain summit
[09:41] Lazer KP: how'd that go?
[09:43] Crostothlay: well, essentially, it seems that spain fears being surrounded by our alliance
[09:43] Lazer KP: too late
[09:44] Crostothlay: so they stated that they want in in the alliance. when i asked for a clarification, they mentioned that the acts after the war was on the assumption that the wartime alliance no longer held, since india had made it clear that the wartime alliance was simply that, a wartime one
[09:45] Crostothlay: oh right... spain says that she feels used by us, discarded after use
[09:45] Lazer KP: heh
[09:45] Crostothlay: some direct quotes...
[09:46] Crostothlay: ...We joined your war.
diplocapo: And what does Spain get for this? We get to worry about Indians, Chinese and Russians pouring over our borders.
diplocapo: We get to wonder when you will decide for us to lose a few cities to your empires.
condor223: ah..
diplocapo: We thought we'd have a place in your alliance.
condor223: and china lost so many fine men, sent to russia and india
diplocapo: And as soon as the war was over, so was our friendship it seems.
[09:46] Crostothlay: oh, and just before that
[09:46] Crostothlay: I mean we put up with the Indians mapping our lands, we put up with the city of Feodorgrad which has taken our wheat fields.
[09:47] Crostothlay: the feeling that i get from spain, in general, is that they feel friendless and under seige
[09:47] Lazer KP: yea
[09:48] Crostothlay: Spain: Our biggest fear is becoming too weak, due to lack of cooperation, and become vassalized by your alliance
[09:48] Crostothlay: Basically, to put it as plainly as possible; we want in on your alliance.
diplocapo: I assure you.
diplocapo: They think I am a traitor for helping you.
diplocapo: But they know they can deal with me, because I am honest.
diplocapo: And they see me as a way to curb your power, with me they would surround you.
diplocapo: That is how they percieve me.
diplocapo: What they don't realize is that I hate England.
[09:49] Lazer KP: considering they are the biggest nation in the game, they have quite a misplaced inferiority complex
[09:49] Crostothlay: they did acknowledge the fact that they are the biggest, yes
[09:50] Crostothlay: but i think this can be used to our advantage
[09:50] Crostothlay: if we leave the complex unattended, spain is highly likely to turn against us
[09:51] Crostothlay: on the other hand, their need for acknowledgement in our alliance means that we should be able to expect them to toe the party line, should they formally join
[09:51] Lazer KP: yea
[09:52] Crostothlay: these are the terms that they have said they will agree to
[09:52] Crostothlay: We will agree to consult your nations in issues of mutual importance, we will agree not to exhcange technologies with other nations unless agreed upon.
diplocapo: We will agree to defend China, India, and Russia in war, whether they started it or not
[09:52] Lazer KP: i mean i wouldn't mind cutting spain loose if we could count on german-france-america-inca-england not being unified
[09:52] Crostothlay: you're evil
[09:53] Lazer KP: 3 on 3 on 3 i'd be ok with, but otherwise we need spain to make it 5 on 4
[09:53] Crostothlay: agreed.... spain seems to believe that germany and england are working closly together
[09:53] Lazer KP: yea
[09:54] Lazer KP: the question i suppose is where to france and america come in
[09:54] Lazer KP: and that's difficult since they were subbed last week
[09:54] Crostothlay: true
[09:54] Lazer KP: well france was there for most of the session, but he never diplos much
[09:54] Lazer KP: he just goes along with cyber
[09:54] Crostothlay: france is basically doomed
[09:55] Lazer KP: anything is possible when the new world opens up
[09:55] Crostothlay: that is true
[09:55] Crostothlay: ...i think they don't have coastal cities, do they?
[09:55] Crostothlay: but that is in the future
[09:56] Lazer KP: but france hasn't seemed too focused on getting available territory now, who knows whether he'd bother to go overseas
[09:56] Lazer KP: yea france has several coastal cities - all of them i think
[09:56] Crostothlay: i think he won't bother. he's becoming a vassel state, lol
[09:56] Lazer KP: they could have competed for the german-england island, but he didn't
[09:56] Crostothlay: yeah
[09:56] Crostothlay: so america is the wild card
[09:57] Lazer KP: seems he has been sitting on a settler the whole time too, cause once Ljube got in charge he sent it out looking for land
[09:57] Lazer KP: he might settle that finger island by yaroslav
[09:57] Lazer KP: well ljube might, but dragon will probably just send it home, heh
[09:57] Lazer KP: but yea, america is the wildcard
[09:57] Crostothlay: if he does, i'll call it an act of agression
[09:57] Lazer KP: pssh
[09:58] Lazer KP: greedy russians
[09:58] Crostothlay: >_>
[09:58] Crostothlay: we have legitimate piracy concerns!
[09:58] Lazer KP: heh
[09:58] Lazer KP: the strong indian navy is protecting our shores
[09:59] Crostothlay: we have no navy
[09:59] Crostothlay: first ship in 20 turns
[09:59] Lazer KP: last week i built my first two ships
[09:59] Crostothlay: heheh
[09:59] Lazer KP: just so i could go explore the german island
[09:59] Crostothlay: yaroslavl is my sole warm water port
[09:59] Lazer KP: but he won't sign open borders
[09:59] Lazer KP: so i'm gonna send my carave
[10:00] Lazer KP: since they ignore borders
[10:00] Crostothlay: ^_^
[10:00] Lazer KP: that might set off some hostility... i dunno
[10:00] Crostothlay: it might... we'll see
[10:01] Crostothlay: hmm... actually, cyber hasn't made an ic post since the end of the war, has he?
[10:01] Lazer KP: nope
[10:01] Crostothlay: i suspect america is nursing a bitter resentment towards our alliance
[10:01] Lazer KP: yea
[10:02] Lazer KP: i think honestly germany is the true wildcard
[10:02] Lazer KP: if he turns on france-america that'd change the landscape
[10:02] Crostothlay: that's also true
[10:03] Lazer KP: if that happens, then germany-inca-england could be quite a powerful alliance
[10:03] Lazer KP: and france-america would be a true runt unless spain joins them
[10:03] Crostothlay: heh, true...
[10:03] Crostothlay: i think they're in a rut anyway
[10:04] Lazer KP: yea
[10:04] Crostothlay: but in the meantime... what shall we do with spain's request?
[10:04] Lazer KP: but i don't want to discard spain until we know how the "star alliance" shapes up
[10:04] Crostothlay: china and spain have come to an understanding, at least
[10:04] Crostothlay: i'll relay that to spain then
[10:04] Lazer KP: hehe
[10:05] Crostothlay: oh wait... spain thinks that she has already been discarded, and wants in again
[10:05] Lazer KP: heh, true
[10:05] Lazer KP: well let her in, but spain will be a junior partner in our allinace
[10:05] Crostothlay: in what sense?
[10:06] Lazer KP: how to convey that without spain walking away prematurely will be hard
[10:06] Lazer KP: just that we are allied for now, but not permanently wedded to him
[10:06] Crostothlay: maybe i can hold an india-spain summit?
[10:06] Lazer KP: heh
[10:06] Lazer KP: i'm just worried that the closer we 4 stay together the more likely the other 5 will stay together
[10:07] Crostothlay: hmm
[10:07] Lazer KP: i think we'd be stronger in a 3 alliance world
[10:07] Crostothlay: that is certainly true
[10:08] Lazer KP: so our goal should be breaking apart the 5
[10:08] Lazer KP: to serve that goal, spain is expendable
[10:09] Lazer KP: of course if we act prematurely then it'll end up 6 on 3
[10:09] Crostothlay: yeah
[10:09] Lazer KP: i wish chanakya really did have spies in Berlin, heh
[10:10] Crostothlay: lol
[10:11] Crostothlay: spies come with communism, right?
[10:11] Lazer KP: yea
[10:11] Crostothlay: *snickers*
[10:11] Lazer KP: religion spies work well too
[10:11] Crostothlay: true
[10:12] Crostothlay: spain fears becoming a vassel state... heheh, that makes me wonder how they'd react to my christian missionaries
[10:12] Lazer KP: well he is always more concerned about the story anyhow
[10:12] Lazer KP: and definitely wants to be christianized
[10:12] Crostothlay: lol
[10:12] Lazer KP: so he'll welcome your missionaries with open arms
[10:13] Crostothlay: we'll see
[10:14] Lazer KP: so i guess we keep trying to string him along
[10:14] Lazer KP: until we can get some good intelligence on germany's plans
[10:14] Lazer KP: i can make chanakya's last act be to try and flush out some intel on germany
[10:14] Crostothlay:
[10:15] Lazer KP: i was thinking of having one german black rider survive and do the killing anyhow
[10:15] Lazer KP: that'd fit well
[10:16] Crostothlay: needs to be coordinated with lzp
[10:16] Lazer KP: naw, he already sent them
[10:16] Lazer KP: they are mine now
[10:16] Lazer KP:
[10:16] Crostothlay: heheheh
[10:16] Crostothlay: i meant the intelligence gathering thing
[10:16] Lazer KP: ah yea
[10:17] Lazer KP: heh, he wouldn't cooperate with that
[10:17] Crostothlay: XD
[10:17] Lazer KP: i'm thinking though chanakya takes a stab at it and vocalizes what we are wondering here
[10:17] Lazer KP: ashoka disregards him
[10:17] Crostothlay: poor guy
[10:17] Lazer KP: and then chanakya sets out to prove that something is amiss
[10:17] Lazer KP: and gets killed
[10:17] Crostothlay: nice
[10:18] Lazer KP: that makes us suspicious
[10:18] Lazer KP: and we turn the heat up on germany looking for answers as to what is going on
[10:18] Crostothlay: right
[10:19] Lazer KP: so we'd be showing our hand a bit by chanakya's vocalization of our thoughts
[10:19] Crostothlay: yeah
[10:19] Lazer KP: but with ashoka dismissing him, we'd distance ourselves from that position somewhat
[10:19] Lazer KP: whether it'll be convincing enough or not, i dunno
[10:20] Crostothlay: we'll see
[10:20] Crostothlay: cyber doesn't seem to like us doing these kind of posts XD
[10:20] Lazer KP: hehe
[10:20] Crostothlay: i bet he blames me for the war
[10:20] Lazer KP: he certainly does, heh
[10:22] Crostothlay: we need to compel germany to take a stand
[10:22] Lazer KP: yea
[10:22] Crostothlay: though, it seems from the latest post that germany is attempting to woe spain
[10:22] Lazer KP: any other ideas on how to do that?
[10:23] Lazer KP: hmmm
[10:23] Crostothlay: *ponders
[10:24] Crostothlay: should we make a post questioning the german military buildup?
[10:24] Crostothlay: though i think he can easily attribute it to his civil war
[10:24] Lazer KP: yea
[10:25] Lazer KP: his use of the Sauroman pic is worrying, heh
[10:25] Crostothlay: lol, i noticed that
[10:25] Lazer KP: though in keeping with the lotr theme i started
[10:25] Crostothlay: XD
[10:25] Lazer KP: nice that they have accepted being the bad guys
[10:26] Crostothlay: heheheh
[10:26] Crostothlay: i think, instead, we can question germany on what it intends to do wih such a large standing army
[10:27] Crostothlay: especially one out of proportion in size to the nation
[10:27] Lazer KP: also the fact that he has phrased his post the "unificiation of germany" is worrisome. after germany was unified it didn't take them long to go on the warpath
[10:27] Crostothlay: yeah
[10:28] Lazer KP: heh, germany was such a runt power once
[10:28] Lazer KP: now they are our top concern
[10:28] Crostothlay: how times change
[10:28] Lazer KP: make some caravels
[10:28] Lazer KP: if things turn ugly and if their army is split between the island and the mainland
[10:28] Lazer KP: we can keep them bottled up with a naval blockade
[10:29] Crostothlay: yeah
[10:29] Crostothlay: most of my coastal cities are in the north, though
[10:29] Lazer KP: yea
[10:29] Lazer KP: well get yaroslav working on it
[10:29] Crostothlay: and yaroslavl isn't exactly the best place for production
[10:30] Lazer KP: ah
[10:30] Crostothlay: st pete's the prime candidate for shipbuilding, actually... but it takes so long to sail aroudn the world
[10:30] Lazer KP: heh, yea
[10:31] Lazer KP: i'm surprized england hasn't taken the mongol city
[10:31] Crostothlay: still, as a way to keep an eye on the inca, it's a good plan
[10:31] Lazer KP: true
[10:31] Crostothlay: the incan defences are pretty strudy now
[10:31] Lazer KP: yea
[10:32] Crostothlay: that's why i'm charging to mil trad
[10:32] Lazer KP:
[10:33] Crostothlay: don't regret the detour to divine right though ^___^
[10:34] Lazer KP:
[10:35] Crostothlay: hmm... wonder what i should do after i get nationalism
[10:35] Crostothlay: this will be the first time in a civ game that i'm not using liberalism to snag it
[10:36] Lazer KP: well is china going for liberalism then?
[10:36] Crostothlay: looks like it
[10:36] Lazer KP: ok, then you should go for gunpowder
[10:36] Lazer KP: and use liberalism to snag mil tradition
[10:36] Crostothlay: er, only the first civ to get lib gets a free tech
[10:37] Lazer KP: well you give nolan nationalism
[10:37] Lazer KP: duh
[10:37] Lazer KP: then she gets mil tradition
[10:37] Lazer KP: and gives it to us
[10:37] Crostothlay: heheh
[10:37] Crostothlay: isn't mil tradition more expensive than gunpowder?
[10:38] Lazer KP: should be
[10:38] Crostothlay: hmmm.... you think that china's raw research power is greater than russia's?
[10:38] Lazer KP: i dunno
[10:39] Lazer KP: i know my research sucks
[10:39] Crostothlay: nolan certainly doesn't micromanage to the extent i do
[10:39] Lazer KP: damn you financial civs
[10:39] Crostothlay: lol
[10:39] Crostothlay: 40 turns base to nationalism
[10:43] Crostothlay: so, as junior partner, what is spain limited to?
[10:44] Lazer KP: i dunno
[10:44] Crostothlay: lol
[10:44] Lazer KP: heh
[10:44] Crostothlay: isn't much point calling spain 'junior' if there isn't a difference for all intents and purposes
[10:45] Lazer KP: oh no, i don't recommend calling him a junior partner
[10:45] Lazer KP: just treating him differently than we treat each other
[10:45] Lazer KP: subtely
[10:45] Lazer KP: just to nurse some latent hostility
[10:46] Lazer KP: until we figure out what germany is doing
[10:46] Crostothlay: i think that has already been done, lol
[10:46] Lazer KP: heh
[10:46] Lazer KP: but too much if he thinks he isn't in our alliance at all and is tech trading with the others
[10:46] Lazer KP: so we welcome him into the alliance, but not be entirely timely with giving him our techs
[10:47] Crostothlay: yeah
[10:47] Lazer KP: and not really talk to him much, heh
[10:48] Crostothlay: he is bound to notice
[10:48] Lazer KP: well what is your recommendation?
[10:49] Crostothlay: i suggest we treat spain as an 'almost-equal' partner
[10:50] Lazer KP: how so?
[10:51] Crostothlay: for all intents and purposes, we share our general tech plans with spain, and require that spain contribute to our research efforts. however, we may withold certain branches of tech from view
[10:51] Crostothlay: namely, mil tradition and nationalism
[10:53] Crostothlay: liberalism is a little tricker
[10:53] Crostothlay: oh, btw, china does not want to have a hostile neighbour on her doorsteps
[10:54] Lazer KP: yea
[10:54] Crostothlay: so she is likely to oppose a backstabbing of spain
[10:54] Lazer KP: we wouldn't backstab him ever
[10:54] Lazer KP: just let him drift off eventually, heh
[10:54] Crostothlay: lol
[10:54] Lazer KP: but again it all depends on germany
[10:54] Lazer KP: if we can get 3 on 3 on 3 i think that'd be ideal
[10:55] Crostothlay:
[10:55] Lazer KP: so just keep that in mind as our ultimate goal
[10:55] Lazer KP: however we can get there the better
[10:55] Crostothlay: righto
[10:56] Crostothlay: heheh

.

[OzzyKP]

Session Start (LazerKP:LBPBumout): Sat May 06 12:16:13 2006
[12:19] Lazer KP: kuno and i were busy plotting last night
[12:19] LBPBumout: I bet.
[12:19] LBPBumout: What did you come up with?
[12:20] Lazer KP: well i don't think the war will be difficult for us. we have a considerable tech & military edge
[12:20] LBPBumout: Can you be certain of this?
[12:20] Lazer KP: so you and i should send our mounted units to russia to get upgraded to cossacks
[12:20] LBPBumout: Ugh, this I wanted to use Conquistadors.
[12:20] LBPBumout: but alas.
[12:20] LBPBumout: Do we have enough money for this?
[12:20] Lazer KP: i dunno
[12:21] LBPBumout: Probably not, that 1000 I gave you was most of my treasury.
[12:21] LBPBumout: I only have a little over 400 left.
[12:21] Lazer KP: ok, i spent most of that on upgrading my horse archers to knights
[12:21] Lazer KP: well maybe leave your conquistadors as they are
[12:21] Lazer KP: but upgrade my knights
[12:21] LBPBumout: Conquistadors are at least slightly better than Axemen.
[12:21] LBPBumout: Or Maces I mean.
[12:21] Lazer KP: yea
[12:21] Lazer KP: maces are the best i've seen south of me
[12:21] LBPBumout: Alright, well they should win out.
[12:21] LBPBumout: But what is the battle plan.
[12:22] LBPBumout: Where are their units? Where will mine do the best damage?
[12:22] Lazer KP: but even if they get gunpowder and upgrade to musketeers, cossacks win handily
[12:22] LBPBumout: It is integral that England and Inca stay out of this!
[12:22] Lazer KP: agreed
[12:22] LBPBumout: I think Germany is still up for grabs politically.
[12:22] Lazer KP: i will talk to deity midweek
[12:22] LBPBumout: So if we can keep this thing localized as much as possible the better.
[12:22] Lazer KP: no, germany is solidly aligned with america
[12:22] LBPBumout: Are they?
[12:22] Lazer KP: it was their war as much as anyones
[12:23] LBPBumout: Okay, so Germany is an enemy.
[12:23] Lazer KP: the army that attacked boston was all german
[12:23] LBPBumout: And I assume France is as well.
[12:23] Lazer KP: france didn't have much
[12:23] Lazer KP: some of it was frances
[12:23] Lazer KP: but mostly german
[12:23] Lazer KP: probably more french than american
[12:23] Lazer KP: but still mostly german
[12:23] LBPBumout: So France, Germany and America are the enemies.
[12:23] Lazer KP: so i intend to make germany pay in this war
[12:23] LBPBumout: When should I officially attack them?
[12:24] Lazer KP: when we are ready, but i want to spell out some goals for the war
[12:24] Lazer KP: we way to make them pay of course, but i think this is a good opportunity to enforce a balance of power in the region
[12:24] Lazer KP: germany is getitng powerful while america and france and languishing
[12:24] LBPBumout: Such as?
[12:24] Lazer KP: so this is what i'm thinking for the ultimate peace deal:
[12:24] Lazer KP: boston & new york go to india
[12:24] Lazer KP: france gets hamburg
[12:25] LBPBumout: Damn.
[12:25] Lazer KP: america gets cologne and dortmund
[12:25] LBPBumout: That's crucial.
[12:25] Lazer KP: so france and america actually gain in the war
[12:25] Lazer KP: and germany is put in their place
[12:25] LBPBumout: So ultimately you blame the Germans for this?
[12:25] Lazer KP: yes
[12:25] LBPBumout: I don't think this is a good idea.
[12:25] Lazer KP: why not?>
[12:25] LBPBumout: You give America a reason to attack India in the future.
[12:26] Lazer KP: the last peace treaty was fair and they attacked anyways
[12:26] LBPBumout: They've already attacked you for Boston.
[12:26] Lazer KP: the only thing that will stop them from attacking is keeping a large army on my border
[12:26] LBPBumout: Precisely, it isn't the deal; its the fact that its an "American" city that caused it.
[12:26] LBPBumout: If it is returned they will use the same excuse.
[12:26] LBPBumout: Germany must be driven from the continent entirely.
[12:26] Lazer KP: see i think that's a bit harsh
[12:27] Lazer KP: quite a bit harsh i think
[12:27] LBPBumout: It doesn't matter, India can't get two cities.
[12:27] LBPBumout: Its a pretense for a future war.
[12:27] LBPBumout: They won't agree to your terms.
[12:27] Lazer KP: india would only be getting one city. boston would be returned to india
[12:27] LBPBumout: Unless you are saying we take them out entirely.
[12:27] LBPBumout: And restructure ourselves.
[12:27] Lazer KP: america would ultimately gain more in this deal
[12:28] LBPBumout: I know, but I doubt they'd accept it.
[12:28] Lazer KP: but it doesn't matter, they wouldn't accept anything other than boston & madras
[12:28] Lazer KP: but they won't have a choice
[12:28] Lazer KP: we are too superior
[12:28] Lazer KP: and you think germany would accept being driven from the continent and having their capital taken away?
[12:28] LBPBumout: Why wouldn't the English and Inca get involved if we destroy them?
[12:28] Lazer KP: you are the one talking about destroying them, not me
[12:29] LBPBumout: Ah, but I am saying unless we conquer them they won't agree to your terms.
[12:29] LBPBumout: We would have to occupy all but one city until they capitulate.
[12:29] LBPBumout: In essence; destroy them.
[12:29] Lazer KP: i doubt it would have to be that much, but i do intend to take several cities if need be
[12:29] Lazer KP: but again, how do you forsee driving germany from the continent being easier?
[12:30] LBPBumout: It is an expensive thing to take so many cities.
[12:30] LBPBumout: I say we just raze their cities, down to the last.
[12:30] LBPBumout: destroy their units down to the last.
[12:30] Lazer KP: wow
[12:30] LBPBumout: and force them to start from scratch.
[12:30] LBPBumout: It may be harsh.
[12:30] LBPBumout: But we'd never have to worry about them ever again.
[12:31] Lazer KP: yea, but then the game would be forever tilted
[12:31] Lazer KP: we'd make them into mongolia
[12:31] LBPBumout: We can give them land in the new world.
[12:31] LBPBumout: There are ways to fix it.
[12:31] Lazer KP: so what again are your complaints with my suggestion?
[12:31] LBPBumout: There aren't complaints.
[12:32] LBPBumout: I just think they won't accept the terms.
[12:32] Lazer KP: they won't have a choice
[12:32] LBPBumout: Okay.
[12:32] LBPBumout: Then your plan is fine.
[12:32] Lazer KP: i mean we're gonna have to take 5-6 cities to get them to submit i bet
[12:32] Lazer KP: but we have that ability
[12:32] LBPBumout: Certainly.
[12:32] LBPBumout: Can I raze cities?
[12:33] Lazer KP: no, heh
[12:33] LBPBumout: Why not?
[12:33] Lazer KP: i think that's too harsh
[12:33] LBPBumout: It isn't that harsh.
[12:33] LBPBumout: Really, think about it.
[12:33] Lazer KP: but talk it over with Kuno see what he thinks
[12:33] LBPBumout: I'm sure he'll agree.
[12:33] Lazer KP: what do you want to raze?
[12:33] LBPBumout: I don't know.
[12:34] LBPBumout: Hamburg, or New York.
[12:34] LBPBumout: Robington, Berlin... Paris.
[12:34] Lazer KP: a capitol city?
[12:34] Lazer KP: that's harsh
[12:34] LBPBumout: Its glorious!
[12:34] Lazer KP: hehe
[12:34] LBPBumout: Alright, I have to leave.
[12:34] Lazer KP: ok
[12:35] Lazer KP: we'll continue this later
Session Start (LazerKP:LBPBumout): Sun May 07 16:41:56 2006
[16:42] Lazer KP: like how I exposed the German lies?
[16:42] LBPBumout: How did you do that?
[16:42] Lazer KP: check
[16:42] LBPBumout: Oh, when you asked them to purchase the soldiers.
[16:42] LBPBumout: Yeah I saw that.
[16:42] Lazer KP: yea
[16:43] Lazer KP: he refused to lend them, as i suspected
[16:43] LBPBumout: Well, honestly I'm sure they know ou are going to attack.
[16:43] LBPBumout: They must, especially now.
[16:43] Lazer KP: yea
[16:44] Lazer KP: it was just a PR move, i didn't expect him to actually lend them
[16:45] Lazer KP: just showing that he isn't an impartial lender of troops as he claims, but an aggressive power in cahoots with america over the boston affair
[16:46] LBPBumout: Its clear, we have to contact the English and the Inca though, and if I am staying under the radar for now I suggest you have the Russians do it.
[16:46] Lazer KP: yea
Session Close (LBPBumout): Mon May 08 15:18:59 2006

Session Start (LazerKP:LBPBumout): Fri May 12 16:18:28 2006
[16:18] Lazer KP: yo
[16:18] LBPBumout: Hey.
[16:18] LBPBumout: So Russia is staying neutral?
[16:19] Lazer KP: i dunno
[16:19] LBPBumout: I suggest you read the thread Ozzy.
[16:19] Lazer KP: i did
[16:19] LBPBumout: And I can't say I think you'll like it.
[16:19] LBPBumout: Hmm.
[16:19] Lazer KP: i dunno if he is just saying that or if he means it
[16:19] Lazer KP: last i spoke to him he seemed committed to the war effort
[16:19] LBPBumout: Hey listen, I have to put some clothes on, so I'll be back in a couple of minutes.
[16:19] LBPBumout: I don't think he is going to fight.
[16:19] Lazer KP: k
[16:28] LBPBumout: Alright, I'm back.
[16:28] Lazer KP: k
[16:29] Lazer KP: well if russia is truly neutral this will change things dramatically
[16:29] Lazer KP: we won't have the cossacks that we were counting on
[16:29] Lazer KP: but i dunno, we need to talk to him first
[16:30] LBPBumout: I'll leave that to you, you have a better relationship with him.
[16:30] Lazer KP: yea
[16:30] LBPBumout: I am simply saying, if Russia does not join the war, I don't know if Spain can.
[16:30] Lazer KP: damn...
[16:30] LBPBumout: I mean, I can't afford to lose.
[16:30] Lazer KP: i'd be totally ****ed then
[16:30] Lazer KP: we've still got a tech lead though
[16:31] LBPBumout: well, I can probably still fight.
[16:31] LBPBumout: But honestly, you handled that summit terribly.
[16:32] Lazer KP: how so?
[16:32] LBPBumout: I wouldn't want to leave you in a bad situation.
[16:32] LBPBumout: And Russia, how can they do this? I thought you were allies.
[16:32] Lazer KP: i duno, as far as i know russia is just playing them
[16:32] LBPBumout: First of all, you semed a liar with your 7/8ths contention.
[16:32] LBPBumout: Which may be true, but it doesn't look true.
[16:32] LBPBumout: And makes you seem untrustworthy.
[16:32] Lazer KP: the city was population 1 when i got it
[16:33] Lazer KP: its not population 8
[16:33] LBPBumout: You should have brought up the illegality of the act, I mean Russia itself AGREED that the city was handed over peacefully.
[16:33] LBPBumout: When it wasn't.
[16:33] Lazer KP: i brought it up several times
[16:33] LBPBumout: How can something be handed over peaceful at swordpoint?
[16:33] Lazer KP: but they keep glossing over that
[16:33] LBPBumout: Not enough to get your own ALLY to bring it up.
[16:33] LBPBumout: I'm not really saying that YOU yourself were to blame, so much as I am saying your supposed ally did nothing to support you.
[16:33] LBPBumout: And the meeting itself was held when Spain could not attend.
[16:33] Lazer KP: yea
[16:34] LBPBumout: Which meant it was, for all intents and purposes, 1 on 3.
[16:34] LBPBumout: I find it odd that Russia has declared neutrality.
[16:34] Lazer KP: i'm still thinking he is toying with them
[16:35] Lazer KP: until i hear it from him personally that he is being neutral
[16:35] Lazer KP: then i'm not believing it
[16:35] Lazer KP: i'm gonna be pissed though if he does go neutral
[16:35] LBPBumout: Alright, well I'm just going on the posts.
[16:35] LBPBumout: It seems that Peter and the Pope have both said they will remain neutral.
[16:35] LBPBumout: And unless there is someone else in Russia who holds the power, I tend to think they will remain neutral.
[16:35] LBPBumout: Which, honestly, breaks your alliance, no?
[16:36] Lazer KP: i suppose
[16:36] LBPBumout: I mean if you notice my last post, I was going to talk to the pope.
[16:36] LBPBumout: IE Kuno before the session, and it was Chavez I sent.
[16:36] LBPBumout: IE my most militant advisor.
[16:36] Lazer KP: but lets just worry about the war now. Its gonna happen whether russia joins or not.
[16:36] Lazer KP: and there is nothing we can do about russia now
[16:37] Lazer KP: until he is online
[16:37] LBPBumout: That is ridiculous Ozzy.
[16:37] LBPBumout: They are bound to us.
[16:37] Lazer KP: but until we can confirm things one way or another, then what can we do?
[16:37] LBPBumout: Have you recieved any private messages?
[16:37] LBPBumout: I haven't, except the one he posted where he said he would remain neutral.
[16:38] Lazer KP: the last time i spoke to him he seemed intent on going ahead with the war as planned
[16:38] LBPBumout: Alright, as long as you know what you are doing.
[16:39] Lazer KP: well what are we able to do?
[16:39] Lazer KP: he isn't online
[16:39] Lazer KP: we can't talk to him right now
[16:39] LBPBumout: There's nothing to be done.
[16:39] Lazer KP: so lets just wait till he gets online
[16:39] LBPBumout: Maybe you should back down.
[16:39] Lazer KP: and worry about it then
[16:39] Lazer KP: i can't after all this
[16:39] LBPBumout: Why not? Pride?
[16:39] LBPBumout: Besides, why would he remain neutral?
[16:39] Lazer KP: pride, the storyline,
[16:39] LBPBumout: Think of possible reasons.
[16:40] LBPBumout: The storyline? We make the storyline.
[16:40] LBPBumout: Obviously he has a reason for going from gung-ho to neutral.
[16:40] Lazer KP: no, i'm not gonna backdown. that'd just be ridiculous after everything that has happened.
[16:40] LBPBumout: And if it was important he would tell us, right?
[16:40] Lazer KP: he was never gung-ho publically
[16:40] Lazer KP: he always said he wanted to play neutral in public
[16:40] LBPBumout: He didn't have to be though, you were plubicly allied.
[16:40] Lazer KP: and privately reassured me that he'd support us
[16:41] LBPBumout: Well, I'm just saying, its distressing that he would refer to your country as Godless, and say you have debased yourselves.
[16:41] Lazer KP: well still, just please don't worry about it until it is confirmed
[16:41] LBPBumout: Listen to me Ozzy.
[16:41] LBPBumout: I can't fight if Russia is a wildcard.
[16:41] LBPBumout: Its that simple, I have a border to protect.
[16:41] LBPBumout: Especially if there is some underhanded reason for this change of heart.
[16:42] LBPBumout: That is the reality of the situation.
[16:42] LBPBumout: Either they fight side by side with us, or I can't fight side by side with you.
[16:42] Lazer KP: so then everyone walks out on me
[16:42] Lazer KP: great
[16:42] LBPBumout: I'm not walking out on you.
[16:43] LBPBumout: I told you I'd help, but if I have to worry about Russia, which is more than half my border, I can't help you.
[16:43] LBPBumout: So, maybe I'm being paranoid.
[16:43] LBPBumout: Look, forget it.
[16:43] LBPBumout: Let's operate under our normal assumptions, then we'll piss and **** ourselves if Russia truly backs down.
[16:44] Lazer KP: ok
[16:44] LBPBumout: You talk to him, feel him out, and let me know what he says.
[16:44] Lazer KP: ok
[16:44] Lazer KP: that's what i was saying all along,
[16:44] LBPBumout: Yeah, but you needed to know my position.
[16:44] LBPBumout: no matter how bad it is.
[16:44] Lazer KP: so.. assuming the russians are still with us. what is our plan?
[16:44] LBPBumout: Continue to do what I was doing.
[16:45] LBPBumout: Make Conqs, send them south and fight.
[16:45] LBPBumout: I have a few there already.
[16:45] LBPBumout: Like five or something.
[16:45] LBPBumout: But more are on the way.
[16:45] Lazer KP: assuming we are wildly successful, what should our ultimate goal be?
[16:45] LBPBumout: Hmm.
[16:45] LBPBumout: Well, you should have suggested the ultimatum to America that I suggested.
[16:45] LBPBumout: Which brings me off topic but it must be addressed.
[16:46] LBPBumout: Its not all about you.
[16:46] LBPBumout: And honestly, its understandable that Russia may back down from a war you started.
[16:46] LBPBumout: And don't give me the crap that America did, I know you started it, I was there.
[16:46] LBPBumout: Maybe not officially, but you did.
[16:46] Lazer KP: the invasion of boston?
[16:46] LBPBumout: No, c'mon man.
[16:46] LBPBumout: The Great World War.
[16:46] LBPBumout: This is an offshoot of that.
[16:46] LBPBumout: In a very real way it never ended.
[16:47] Lazer KP: no way, i wanted america to stop sending missionaries north and then he escalated to war
[16:47] LBPBumout: I told you to offer Boston to America in exchange for passage and neutrality towards Germany.
[16:47] Lazer KP: i wasn't ready for war at all
[16:47] LBPBumout: Ozzy, I'm not stupid. You turned a situation you could have ended with a cancelled treaty into a war.
[16:47] Lazer KP: america isn't getting boston back any more than the inca are getting huamanga back
[16:47] LBPBumout: The Inca don't want it back.
[16:47] Lazer KP: america never gave me that chance
[16:48] Lazer KP: but whatever
[16:48] LBPBumout: Don't get angry with me.
[16:48] LBPBumout: I am telling you facts Ozzy.
[16:48] LBPBumout: You turned a small issue into a war, and you did.
[16:48] Lazer KP: that's bull****
[16:48] Lazer KP: they did that
[16:48] LBPBumout: And now you are starting another war because your city wasn't defended.
[16:48] LBPBumout: It isn't, officially America started it, and they were wrong. But you COULD have done things to prevent war.
[16:48] Lazer KP: i get ****ing invaded twice and everyone says its my fault
[16:48] Lazer KP: great
[16:49] LBPBumout: Relax man, there's no need to get personal here, we're allies this is private.
[16:49] LBPBumout: All I am trying to say is you should have offered America Boston, and right of passage.
[16:49] LBPBumout: And neutrality in the war against Germany, that way we would have isolated Germany, America would have what they wanted.
[16:49] LBPBumout: And it wouldn't turn into this huge conflict.
[16:49] LBPBumout: Now, I am sure Russia is only saying this to prevent the Inca and English from joining the war.
[16:50] Lazer KP: i'm not gonna reward america's surprize attack on me by letting them have boston.
[16:50] LBPBumout: But now we're at an impasse, an impasse we wouldn't have really been at if you had been willing to give up Boston.
[16:50] Lazer KP: they had a bull**** move there
[16:50] LBPBumout: Don't think of it as rewarding America.
[16:50] Lazer KP: and i'm not gonna praise them for ti
[16:50] LBPBumout: I know, it doesn't matter though, it happened.
[16:50] LBPBumout: Dude, your too staunch on this issue.
[16:50] Lazer KP: ****, you got a free city for not doing a damn thing in the war. I had my whole ****ing empire carved up and pillaged and now you are saying I'M being stubborn cause i wanted some kind of reparations from it
[16:51] LBPBumout: That city is costing me more than its worth.
[16:51] LBPBumout: **** you.
[16:51] LBPBumout: Spain is out.
[16:51] Lazer KP: what did i get out of all that war? I lost half my population half my improvements and just that one city
[16:51] Lazer KP: and now peopel are ****ing yelling at me over it
[16:51] Lazer KP: that's bull****
[16:51] LBPBumout: I'm not yetlling at you.
[16:51] LBPBumout: You have to get off of your damn high horse man.
[16:51] Lazer KP: maybe if incan troops were destroying all your **** for two sessions you'd have a different opinon on things
[16:51] LBPBumout: Maybe I would.
[16:51] LBPBumout: But they weren't, so I don't.
[16:52] Lazer KP: everyone is ****ing dumping on me
[16:52] Lazer KP: and piling more on
[16:52] LBPBumout: Listen.

[OzzyKP]

[16:52] Lazer KP: and i just have to stick my ass up and take it? no way
[16:52] Lazer KP: i don't work that way
[16:52] LBPBumout: Will you relax for a second.
[16:52] LBPBumout: I'
[16:52] LBPBumout: You have to understand OTHER people's views.
[16:52] LBPBumout: Not just your own, its diplomacy.
[16:52] LBPBumout: The Great War was stupid, it was avoidable.
[16:52] LBPBumout: And people blame YOU for it because YOU won.
[16:53] LBPBumout: You aren't going to get anywhere, by the way, yelling at your allies.
[16:53] LBPBumout: That city I got is crap, its hurting more than its helping, and the fact that you act like it was a benefit is ludicrous.
[16:53] Lazer KP: and you're being a great ally by saying i should carve up my land to appease the Americans
[16:53] LBPBumout: No I'm not.
[16:53] LBPBumout: I'm saying you should offer Boston so we could attack Germany, they'd be cornered.
[16:53] LBPBumout: If you truly think Germany is the snake in the grass then you'd do it, but you don't.
[16:54] LBPBumout: You want to have your cake and eat it too, unfortunately that isn't how things work out in diplomacy.
[16:54] LBPBumout: You have to give in to things to get things, and now you're in a war where you are going to lose an ally.
[16:54] LBPBumout: And are VERY CLOSE from losing another one.
[16:54] LBPBumout: So yes, sometimes you do have to get ass****ed.
[16:54] Lazer KP: only if my friends don't care whether i get ass****ed or not
[16:54] LBPBumout: But there's no need to dwell on it.
[16:54] LBPBumout: I do care, if I didn't care we wouldn't be having this conversation.
[16:55] LBPBumout: I just brought it up because you should look at every angle, no matter how much you don't like it.
[16:55] LBPBumout: And Russia backing out is an angle.
[16:56] LBPBumout: I just want to know what your plans are.
[16:57] LBPBumout: Because if you have none, Spain will have no choice but to leave.
[16:57] LBPBumout: I already told you my position, I am leaving my borders open for you.
[16:57] Lazer KP: well that's what i wanted to discuss with you, but every time i try to discuss the plans with you you keep going on tangents saying you are gonna drop out of the war or that i should just give over my cities to america
[16:57] LBPBumout: And the LEAST you could do is try and get Russia back in the fold.
[16:58] LBPBumout: Those aren't tangents, THAT IS THE ISSUE.
[16:58] LBPBumout: Its not a tangent.
[16:58] Lazer KP: and when the hell did i say i wouldn't try to get russia back into the fold?
[16:58] LBPBumout: You don't seem to care as much as I do.
[16:58] Lazer KP: because i don't think he's really gone
[16:58] Lazer KP: he never told me he was leaving
[16:58] Lazer KP: so i don't think he is
[16:58] LBPBumout: Well that's too bad, because you have to consider it.
[16:58] Lazer KP: but you keep harping on it
[16:59] LBPBumout: Fine, I wont' say anything anymore.
[16:59] LBPBumout: This conversation is over (I have to eat) and we will see how this works out when I return.
[16:59] Lazer KP: fine
[16:59] LBPBumout: Dude, don't take any of this personally.
[16:59] LBPBumout: If you do, you will fail.
[17:00] LBPBumout: And seriously, assuming Russia is going to stick with you is ridiculous in the face of what he has said officially.
[17:00] LBPBumout: I'm just saying, DTA.
Session Close (LBPBumout): Fri May 12 17:51:05 2006

Session Start (LazerKP:LBPBumout): Fri May 12 18:08:55 2006
[18:08] LBPBumout: Do you see, do you see what I am saying?
[18:08] LBPBumout: he is being very shady.
[18:09] Lazer KP: well he is giving troops
[18:09] Lazer KP: which is all i wanted anyways
[18:11] LBPBumout: Ozzy, you have to look at the big picture.
[18:11] LBPBumout: There is no reason for Russia not to support India, openly.
[18:11] LBPBumout: At all.
[18:11] LBPBumout: You are officially allied, that much is clear.
[18:12] Lazer KP: yea
[18:12] LBPBumout: You can't tell me for a second this isn't suspicious.
[18:12] Lazer KP: it is troubling, yes
[18:13] LBPBumout: Dude, he's hoodwinking us.
[18:13] Lazer KP: how so?
[18:13] LBPBumout: He has to be, think about it; I already told you Germany wanted us to spread Christianity.
[18:13] LBPBumout: WHY on TERRA would they come to ONLY Spain?
[18:13] LBPBumout: They must've gone to the Russians as well, requesting missionaries.
[18:13] Lazer KP: kuno said that both germany and america approached him about missionaries
[18:13] LBPBumout: There you go.
[18:14] Lazer KP: he's being up front about it though
[18:14] LBPBumout: So?
[18:14] LBPBumout: People who rob you at gunpoint are very up front!
[18:14] Lazer KP: well germany approached you too
[18:14] LBPBumout: Were not the Americans up front?
[18:14] LBPBumout: So, I didn't turn my back on you, whether you like to think so or not Russia has.
[18:14] LBPBumout: Were not the Americans "up front" when they took Boston from India?
[18:15] Lazer KP: that's a different issue. but if you are making something out of the missionary thing, then you and russia are in the same situation
[18:15] Lazer KP: but even so, yes I am concerned
[18:17] LBPBumout: Even if we are, how do you reconcile this with what conversations you've had with Russia?
[18:17] LBPBumout: You must admit, they are not the same.
[18:18] LBPBumout: I assure you Russia is not as open as Spain.
[18:18] Lazer KP: that is true
[18:18] Lazer KP: that they are not the same
[18:18] Lazer KP: short term, i am not at all worried about russia. I think they'll be fine and help out the war effort this session
[18:18] Lazer KP: long term... i dunno
[18:20] LBPBumout: In my honest opinion, I would suggest shying away from the war at this point.
[18:20] LBPBumout: However, you have Spain's word and its bond.
[18:20] LBPBumout: Our men will die with India, or we will be victorious with India.
[18:21] Lazer KP: I intend to go ahead with the war. However it won't be as large scale as we originally planned
[18:22] LBPBumout: We must focus on Boston.
[18:22] LBPBumout: Honestly.
[18:22] LBPBumout: From there we will mette out the Russian situation.
[18:22] Lazer KP: honestly, we still have a large tech edge, and with russian cossacks joining the effort, i don't think we will have too much to worry about militarily
[18:22] Lazer KP: i mean we get boston, then...
[18:23] Lazer KP: what do you recommend after that?
[18:23] LBPBumout: After that, it is up to you.
[18:23] LBPBumout: This is your war, I am merely your man.
[18:23] Lazer KP: i'm just looking for your honest opinion
[18:23] LBPBumout: As I have said, we will live and die with India.
[18:23] LBPBumout: Honestly, I don't agree with the way this was handled.
[18:24] LBPBumout: And I think we should have befriended at least one southern state.
[18:24] LBPBumout: That's all they want.
[18:24] LBPBumout: The longer we keep them in a position like this one, the longer we will be at eachother's throats.
[18:24] LBPBumout: You are their neighbor, not Spain.
[18:24] LBPBumout: It is wholly on India.
[18:24] Lazer KP: well france is totally not in the game, and germany & america both worked on invading boston... so its hard to make friends with people who invade you
[18:25] LBPBumout: Hard, but not impossible.
[18:25] LBPBumout: (If Britain and the US could do it in the real world, I think we can manage it in Civilization)
[18:25] Lazer KP: well that's a bit different situation... heh
[18:26] Lazer KP: i was surprize attacked - like pearl harbor. so... yea, the US and Japan only became friends after we got their unconditional surrender
[18:26] LBPBumout: No no my friend.
[18:26] LBPBumout: It is the very same.
[18:26] LBPBumout: America delcares war on Britain, America wins.
[18:26] LBPBumout: Then the British invade us.
[18:26] LBPBumout: Its similar at least.
[18:27] Lazer KP: maybe
[18:27] LBPBumout: And you can tell me all of the America declared war on Britain in 1812 you want, but we were FORCED into it.
[18:27] LBPBumout: Just like you are FORCED into this.
[18:27] LBPBumout: As long as you truly have India's best interest at heart, they don't have to remain enemies.
[18:27] Lazer KP: well if "britain" can learn to live with the results of these wars, then fine.
[18:27] LBPBumout: As far as a suggestion; France must be taken.
[18:28] LBPBumout: Will it be us or Germany? That is the issue at hand.
[18:28] Lazer KP: well it'll be difficult for us to take and hold france
[18:28] Lazer KP: since its right in the middle of germany and america
[18:28] LBPBumout: That can be arranged following the war.
[18:28] LBPBumout: Remember Ozzy, there must come a time where we have to GIVE things to them.
[18:28] LBPBumout: If France is the prize to be had, thus control of Germany and in a smaller extent America, then we must do it.
[18:29] Lazer KP: yes i know, that was my whole plan from the start, but everything has ****ed up since then
[18:29] LBPBumout: Blame your so called ally.
[18:29] Lazer KP: well things seem to be changing all over the place
[18:30] Lazer KP: just a few days ago you were talking about razing all of germany's cities, and now you are talking about calling off the war and giving them cities...
[18:30] Lazer KP: but anyways..
[18:30] Lazer KP: ok, we take boston back
[18:30] LBPBumout: Things change, and have changed.
[18:30] Lazer KP: take more american cities? take german cities?
[18:31] Lazer KP: franbce?
[18:31] Lazer KP: even if boston is the only city that changes hands, i want to reduce their military a bit
[18:31] Lazer KP: or a lot, heh
[18:33] Lazer KP: more than anything India wants security now and boston back.
[18:34] Lazer KP: i don't want to have to replay this war every session
[18:40] LBPBumout: Which is exactly why India should AT LEAST CONSIDER Boston's return.
[18:43] Lazer KP: it was considered
Session Close (LBPBumout): Fri May 12 18:44:34 2006

[Robert]

the army that attacked boston was all german

That was not true btw. The army was 60% American, 30% German and 10% French. Germany had sent some troops to defend my other cities though.

[12:25] Lazer KP: so france and america actually gain in the war
[12:25] Lazer KP: and germany is put in their place
[12:25] LBPBumout: So ultimately you blame the Germans for this?
[12:25] Lazer KP: yes

It's really funny to read this.
Germany was not the evil genius behind the attack on Boston. It was America that was still mocking on the loss of Boston who asked Germany for help. Germany asked America to restrain itself and only after much asking from America sent some troops to America under the condition that America would pay back all troops and that a big part of the troops would only be used for defense.

Would I have known that you guys did blame GErmany that hard and had the intention to divide half of Germany among France and America then I would've surely played it in such a way that that would be the end result 8)